The Psychology of the Menendez Bros (Chapter 4: Monster)
Added 2025-06-02 11:00:05 +0000 UTCDr Kirk and Humberto explore the Menendez Bros case.
00:00 Pretrial
13:06 The trial & opening arguments
23:04 Dr. Oziel's testimony
33:52 Lyle & Eric's testimony
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June 2, 2025
The Psychology In Seattle Podcast ®
Trigger Warning: This episode may include topics such as assault, trauma, and discrimination. If necessary, listeners are encouraged to refrain from listening and care for their safety and well-being.
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Comments
Really appreciate Humberto’s insight on this case. It must have been difficult to go through all of this evidence. Him being honest about how he could see wanting to do what the brothers did in his emotional brain is very vulnerable and much appreciated. It helped me view this case with a bit more nuance. On a separate note Ryan Murphy needs to answer for the horrible and insensitive true crime shows he makes. I swear it makes things so much worse.
✨tay✨
2026-01-07 16:15:23 +0000 UTCPlease look into Gypsy Rose again. I used to believe her. There's a whole movement trying to correct the narrative. Start with the fact that she has (and HID until someone else came out with it) a genetic chromosome condition called microdeletion. Which explains every single surgery she had. Her stories are totally contradictory and are quite clearly lies. Please look into it. I'm trying to get the word out there.
Haley Kukan
2025-10-07 09:40:39 +0000 UTCThen couldn't we say the same thing for any person who commits a targeted murder? That they aren't a threat to society because they just wanted THAT person dead for x,y, z reason. Anyone who can blow someone's face off and then turn around and do it again in the next breath, is not someone I want as my neighbour personally. I don't really care how sympathetic the reasons were to have done it.
Ainsley Mongraw
2025-08-05 01:49:07 +0000 UTCHow did the therapist not know about the abuse ?
Purva Patil
2025-07-24 13:18:04 +0000 UTCEvery time I've looked find out more about the parents who were murdered by their children, I'm like yeah.... they kinda deserved that shit
Brandon Fergus
2025-07-11 05:31:45 +0000 UTCTotally agree. I was annoyed with this also. I think maybe Kirk's rule-following nature is at hand though. I think he means well.
Colette
2025-07-02 10:06:54 +0000 UTCAnd I agree Berto, I could see wanting to kill them too.
Colette
2025-07-02 09:44:19 +0000 UTCI imagine the expressions would be quite memeable.
Colette
2025-07-01 09:47:48 +0000 UTC"He really wasn't what I was expecting..." Dr. Kirk wondering how this rather unethical therapist pulled two women willing to live simultaneously with him while he hid a murder 🧐
Colette
2025-07-01 09:47:21 +0000 UTCConsidering Dr. Honda has never seen anything about this story, I wish I could see his reaction when Berto throws new plot twists about the story’s development 😅
Hanan from Math pi Hanan
2025-06-09 05:43:28 +0000 UTCTo your point “why they didn’t run away” — keep in mind that even though the brothers were 18 and 21 at the time of the murder, they had been conditioned their entire lives to be completely dependent on their father for all decision-making. Their daily lives, schedules, even food choices were basically completely controlled and decided on by their dad. Small “talk-backs” or acts of independence were punished. Over time this creates a mental state of what psychologists call “learned helplessness” — you literally believe you can’t make it on your own, that you’re incompetent, etc. Not to mention, in their specific case, the dad controlled their bank accounts and credit cards. AND they genuinely believed that with his connections and influence, José would find them no matter where they ran away to. They thought their dad would never let them live out there somewhere in the world knowing all these shameful secrets about their father that they could reveal at any time and destroy his life & reputation. In a way, Lyle and Erik running away may have been Jose’s greatest fear.
Kira S.
2025-06-07 04:08:53 +0000 UTCI feel for Berto having to read, hear and watch such traumatizing accounts of childhood sexual abuse with his history (which is similar to mine, and I am finding this episode to be the most difficult to listen to so far). I really hope that he is taking care of himself through this deep dive. 🩵
Leila
2025-06-05 13:59:58 +0000 UTCI believe Eric and Lyle needed to do time for what they did but they shouldn’t still be rotting in prison. They don’t present a threat to society
Olivia Kanyo
2025-06-04 18:52:23 +0000 UTCHow dare you spoil a 26 year old movie SMH
Olivia Kanyo
2025-06-04 18:50:45 +0000 UTCProps to Humberto ~ love him leading the convo, his questions to Dr. H, would love other true crime with psych aspects. Also the 1st defense was "imperfect self defense" and then judge changed the rules 2nd trial to regular self defense
Chels
2025-06-03 13:15:08 +0000 UTCLol @ Dr. Kirk Hondas jab at SNL not being funny. I feel skits like that keep the stigma going..and they’re not even funny!
Sera A
2025-06-03 09:24:37 +0000 UTCThis and the West Memphis 3 are the cases that got me into true crime growing up in the 90s , and I do think that if this happens today the Brothers will be out because look what happened with Gypsy Rose ....she became famous , TikTok , book deals ,TV shows, just bizarre how that worked.
R.L Cantale
2025-06-03 02:40:51 +0000 UTCYou're safe here to talk about it yay
R.L Cantale
2025-06-03 02:36:40 +0000 UTCShe absolutely knew! and this happens to a lot of women, as they think this is the only way they can keep the husband in the house , the case of Madeline Soto comes to mind not to be the graphic but it reminds me of the same thing. Y s Kitty knew and it makes sense she is dead too..
R.L Cantale
2025-06-03 02:36:05 +0000 UTCI am a little triggered by the notion that if even if they were abused in that way it wouldn’t justify murder. The term ‘abuse excuse’ itself is very insensitive. I’m not pro murder, violence or vigilantism in general. I also understand there is a difference between legal justification and justification in a general or moral sense. But I feel the need to say that I think in such horrific cases, it’s not for anyone external to the situation to decide what is justified and what is not. Only the victim would truly know what they’ve been through. Saying that abuse never justifies murder seems very invalidating of the pain that a victim would have endured. Legally we do what we have to do to uphold order in society. But if something awful like this does happen, I don’t think it’s anyone’s place to pass judgement …
Prerna Singh
2025-06-02 23:27:28 +0000 UTCBerto has done such an amazing job on laying out this story!!!!
Alicia Cuadrado
2025-06-02 21:47:47 +0000 UTCHumberto is a real delight ! He gave me chills just by the way he is telling the story
Imane El atia
2025-06-02 19:11:59 +0000 UTCLayperson here, but I don’t think the mom was trying to help her son by “checking” him for STDs. I think she knew her husband was having sexual contact with Eric and didn’t want to catch anything herself. I find it so difficult to believe that she didn’t know about the dad’s abuse.
Ella
2025-06-02 16:46:40 +0000 UTCHumberto ♡♡♡
GO!《cɛn
2025-06-02 16:21:03 +0000 UTCHappy to finally arrive at the testimony portion of the series and to have your input on it. As a French, I have very few people to talk about this case with and don't want to trigger someone that never ask to hear such a horrible story. Waiting for the next episode
Louise Dolbeau
2025-06-02 15:39:41 +0000 UTCAfter the Netflix show, I went back and I watched the original court videos and did a deep dive to make up my own mind on what happened. As a victim of CSA myself, if the boys reasoning was "just an excuse" and it was made up, no way someone would admit to sexually abusing his little brother just to solidify their story. The defense is sexual abuse. No reason to bring up that he victimised their little sibling that looked up to them. It's hard enough to admit, as a man, that they were sexually abused. But to also say that he became a sort of sexual abuser to someone even more vulnerable. If they're trying to plead his case and to be seen as a victim or at least someone who isn't cold blooded or heartless, adding on the portion about being an abuser as well, that skews Lyle's innocence. "Well, he's capable of abusing his little brother, why wouldn't he also kill his parents? He's a sociopathic deviant." Also, I'm only 42 mins in as I'm commenting but once you see the evidence that was presented, the pictures of the boys when they were 6 & 8 that was found of their naked bodies in an envelope with "Erik's 6th birthday" written on the front in Kitty's handwriting, you knew there was something bad going on. These weren't innocent pictures of siblings in a bathtub was toddlers/little boys. This was deliberate and humiliating up-close pictures, some without a face, just focused on the boys naked body. Absolutely disgusting. Also, Lyle was wearing full wigs by the time he was 16 to cover up the fact he had lost all of his hair due to the extreme stress of living in that awful home. The fact that the prosecution couldn't find many people as a positive character witness for Kitty and Jose. But the Menendez brothers had their aunts, uncles, cousins, friends, coaches -- dozens of character witnesses to say that they had a terrible upbringing. There was testimony from friends and cousins that stated that Lyle and Erik's mentioned the abuse years before the murders, cousins stated that when Jose was up in Erik's room with the door shut, no one was allowed near the door or anywhere near that room. They weren't allowed down the hall or even upstairs where the bedrooms were. This case makes me so mad at the injustices and the insult that "boys can't be abused and even if they can, they should suck it up and get over it." My heart breaks for them.
A.J
2025-06-02 15:05:26 +0000 UTCAgreed… if nothing else they’ve seen their parents get *them* out of consequences previously and obviously the abuse was ongoing for their entire lives in various forms. Why would they think their parents would be held accountable when they never had before? Abuse conditioning makes the abuser seem all-powerful… these kids may have never thought for a second that any external system would be able to help them.
Stefan and Erin S
2025-06-02 14:35:47 +0000 UTCWow. I really want the next chapter now, haha. Erik’s testimony is just absolutely mind blowing and it brings a lot of the pieces together imho about what ultimately unfolded. Dr Honda is such a great, thoughtful person to discuss this case, and I’m really loving Berto as the researcher, because honestly… that heart is needed, especially for a case like this one. Good series, fellas ❤️ -Erin
Stefan and Erin S
2025-06-02 14:29:11 +0000 UTCIt was such a good idea to present the case this way in a podcast. I guess a simplification of this dilemma would be, “Does threatening to kill someone justify being murdered?” My answer would be no. With all the other evidence, and in my opinion, I think Jose deserved to die, but not in that way. And I think the odds of them getting out of that situation by reporting their parents to the police were slim to none. Although I wonder why they didn’t run away.
Taryn Bonner
2025-06-02 14:24:23 +0000 UTCVery interesting discussion, especially on vigilantism and doing things "outside the law". I think most of us agree that murder isn't ok and that things should be done within the court of the law. But on the other hand, we see many victims not being taken seriously and many powerful people still getting away with things even when brought to the court of law. So while vigilantism isn't a good idea, morality holds only if we are all treated equally. So would Jose, or Kitty, be held accountable if Erik and Lyle came forward with their abuse? I don't know...
krisassaurus
2025-06-02 13:18:39 +0000 UTCVery interested to see Dr Honda’s reactions to the stories the boys gave.
Stefan and Erin S
2025-06-02 11:06:24 +0000 UTC
