Polygamy & Sister Wives (chapter 1)
Added 2024-07-31 11:00:06 +0000 UTCDr Kirk Honda interviews Christine Pirir about her experiences in the polygamist Mormon cult depicted in Sister Wives (a reality TV show).
00:00 Introduction to Christine and Apostolic United Brethren
09:52 Did Christine know the Brown family?
14:34 What was it like growing up in the AUB?
34:43 How did the church enable control?
42:35 What did Christine think of Sister Wives Season 1?
47:11 How did Christine's family get involved in polygamy?
59:20 How do marriages work in the AUB?
1:06:10 Why might a family system take another wife?
1:14:52 What would Christine say to her younger self?
1:22:14 Resources for ex-polygamy individuals
126:55 Who are Christine's favorite Love is Blind contestants?
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July 31, 2024
The Psychology In Seattle Podcast ®
Trigger Warning: This episode may include topics such as assault, trauma, and discrimination. If necessary, listeners are encouraged to refrain from listening and care for their safety and well-being.
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Comments
Thank you both for this interview! I grew up in the Unification Church and resonated with much of Christine’s experiences. Thank you Christine for your activism and education about high control groups, especially the experience of being raised in these groups.
Sarah White
2024-08-22 18:48:38 +0000 UTCWhat a sweet person. Those moments at the end were really sweet.
Lauren King
2024-08-03 18:22:54 +0000 UTCDr. Honda & Christine, Ty so much for this episode! This discussion touched me very deeply & I can relate to so much of this. I think Christine is very courageous, wise, & lovely! Hugs to both of you & this beautiful community! 💜💜💜
SC Mommy
2024-08-03 09:03:43 +0000 UTCSo glad you did this interview! If your interested, there's a show called Escaping Polygamy that focuses on the Kingston group and sometimes the FLDS as well. It would be a really interesting series after Sister Wives or even just a podcast episode.
Destiny Czyson
2024-08-01 16:26:43 +0000 UTCThe line at 23.20 about people pleasing makes me so emotional. My family isn’t religious, but is conservative in some ways and not in other. I was raised to always follow rules, be good, don’t complain, work hard. I was a very shy and anxious kid, worried about how people perceive me. And I viewed my mum doing everything she can to please everyone and always putting her wants and needs last. It’s resulted in me having no ability to stand up for myself even when it’s justified. And trying to learn what I want and how to ask for it. I’m seeing other people having families, careers, buying houses, large friend groups. While I’m wondering why I’m not achieving those things when I’ve been doing what I was taught was being a good person. It just resulted in me being in unhappy relationships with men who have those old fashioned views and nothing I did to please them was enough. And being taken advantage by employers because I didn’t know I deserved better. I’m so grateful that my partner encourages me to share my feelings and stand up for myself and doesn’t want me to just go with his ideas. I can still be a good person and not always agree with other people. Thanks so much for sharing Christine! And thanks Dr Kirk for everything you do.
Rachel
2024-08-01 06:38:27 +0000 UTCI’m so glad you did this! I’ve listened to all your cult content and struggled with some of your takes due to lack of knowledge… not because it was wrong per se but could have been deeper had you had the knowledge. I even thought about what I would explain to you as an ex Mormon and cult SA victim and started an email but couldn’t get it out. So thank you for the thought-out questions and to Christine for trying to explain what it’s like to be a woman in such an abusive patriarchal system. I had a pure physical reaction to ‘family meeting’ 🙅♀️ Sending you love and healing ❤️🩹 sister (? Not in the creepy way!)
Shani
2024-07-31 18:57:49 +0000 UTCGreat episode! Christine is so open, and it’s remarkable that she sees the situation she was raised in and that it wasn’t right, but she doesn’t sound bitter at all. I hadn’t reflected on the difficult bind being raised to obey men, not believing your comfort with a situation was worth considering AND being required to stay a virgin would create for girls and women.
Eliza Rowley
2024-07-31 16:19:00 +0000 UTCThis is so interesting. I am only familiar with polygamy as it relates to my culture, which is very different. Most of my family are Turkic Muslims. And most do not practice polygamy anymore because it's just not beneficial or practical anymore. One of the main reasons for polygamy in Islamic tradition is to take care of widows and orphans. (Especially during war times because husbands and fathers would die in battle a lot in antiquity.) With medical advances of the modern world, this is not really a thing anymore. It's actually looked down upon if a Muslim man just takes 4 virgins as wives because he can. It always has been. The only exception was for Kings and Princes, but that is because the traditions regarding succession was very specific. It did not apply to regular people. And we see the King or Prince as a servant or slave to the state having less freedom and rights than common people. Also, there is a 4 wife limit. Some Mormon men will keep marrying women until they day they die. (Many of them very young women.) Anyway, something she said really struck me. How she mentions how the Mormon wives would go all out of their way to cater to husbands by making a nice home cooked meal and just putting in great effort for him. Now I can't speak for all Muslim cultures, but how I was raised is that one's status of a mother supersedes her status as a wife. We (as in most of the Kazakhs, Tatars, and some of the Turkic people I personally know) go all out for our children. We cater to their needs and whims before that of our husbands. Which is an everyday thing. So no matter when the husband comes home, they typically will just eat the same food the whole family is eating. Which usually is home cooked food. That is the role of both parents generally. The husband makes the money and buys the food and brings it home and the mother prepares it for her children (and for them too of course). Also, men and women both cook in our culture, though men do a lot of outdoors cooking. My husband is actually from a Western country (Italy) and his mother and father did not teach him how to cook anything. Nor does he have experience shopping for food. His mother also did that. This actually causes a lot of conflict in our marriage lol. Because we have been married over a decade and my husband still can not competently go grocery shopping. Culturally I see this as his job, and it is just one more thing I have to do on top of the many other things I need to do. And back to the part about the husband's coming home to their wives catering to them... My Great Uncle has 3 wives. He is in his nineties. I want to say he is almost 100 years old. His youngest wife I think is in her late 60s. Anyway, they are from Kazakhstan. They are so healthy and thriving too. And whenever I would visit them, they appear to be the least stressed people I have ever seen in my life. I can only hope to be living as they do and at their age. So when my Great-Uncle would visit each wife to spend quality time with her, it was not expected that she go out of her way to hold a special banquet in his honor, as if he was some kind of deity that has graced the home. If anything, my great-uncle would strive to make her time special. Maybe they would even go some place together or something. I think in our culture it is the husband's job to woo the wife and not the other way around I think. Even in the Quran it says a lot of things about how men need to treat their wives with dignity, respect, and gentle kindness. It seems like a lot of blame for a wife's unhappiness is put directly on the husband. And if he hopes for some kind of intimacy and comfort, she has to be in the mood to give it him. This is why I am getting the vibe or impression that it is the opposite in these Mormon groups who practice polygamy, but maybe that is my take on what I have seen and heard so far form the TV series and from this interview.
Tatyana
2024-07-31 16:16:40 +0000 UTCAmazing!! Can’t wait to listen to this one!
Sarah Wooton
2024-07-31 14:20:57 +0000 UTC
