On Marauders, Poverty, and Design Philosophy

You did the right thing. All three Marauder designs deserved to look different, and you did them all justice.

Jarod DePastene

Loving all three MADs! Just one thought on the IIC: are you married to the change in angle at the front top, where the "eye" meets the torso? I was always particularly fond of the single curved line that formed the side profile from the front to the top gun mount. Just a minor thought; I'm 99.99% thumbs up on it as is, and I know how busy you are!

I love both your new Marauder II, and this MAD IIc

Joshua Bressel

It makes sense there would be different looks to vehicles of every stripe. Because different makers would want to make THEIR version of a vehicle at least Look Different from its competitors. Because having people look at your work and say "I want a FORD Marauder over those silly looking Dodge ones." Yes I don't know who makes Marauders, but it works. And if it gets more art from the talented Anthony then I am all for it.

William Janak

I'm extremely excited for the updated take on the Marauder IIC, and I'm glad that you're running with the original VMI designs as the baseline... some of the Project Phoenix stuff looks great, but I think the Marauder IIC deviated *so heavily* from its original look that it was effectively a different mech (it was also wildly different from the Project Phoenix Marauder and Marauder II, so I didn't even see the progression from IS to Clan there). It was a good -looking mech, but it didn't look like a Marauder IIC to me. That little bit does.

Robert Schuster

what a sexy beast!

Sapphirus

I do like your approach a lot! I mostly like the unseen Designs because they formed the picture of BT in my head. But I can’t say anything against your redesigns. Indeed I really like, as I said before, your approach!👍🏻

Jürgen Frey

"Lore be damned" is about the last thing any hardcore fan (which most TT fans are) wants to hear. I understand your reason so some extend, but I truly think you're wrong. The MAD2 is a bigger MAD with wings, call me mentally limited all you want. With your designs, just to give an example, the wings look weird. The front looks weird. The whole thing just looks off. You talk about new players wanting different designs, well BT has hundreds of different designs, no reason to ruin a beloved one for that current majority of potential buyers which are 'old' fans like me. My idea to compromise? Change up the IIC. Clans are known to vastly change their redesigns, I could live very well with a very different look. But stick too lore. Please. And if you ultimately choose to ignore the many voices sounding concern, well that's your choice sadly. I can swap the 2 Mech packs i planned on getting specifically to get two miniatures of one of my favourite designs for some other packs i guess. At least I'm one of the lucky ones who can just 3d print the beautiful and modern looking MW:O design.

Overall Mad II is not bad but I would just like the front intakes to have a grill look like the mini of the 4 X Marauder and maybe the rear intakes moved up just a bit

Robert Moore

That MAD IIc looks tasty.

David

I can understand the desire to avoid redundant designs but unfortunately that's what's called for between the Marauder and Marauder II. From what we can see of your Mad IIC preview you nailed that relationship on the head making the IIC look sleeker and more advanced. I think what several of us want to see is that same relationship between the I and the II rather than this radical departure. Regardless of being redundant a Marauder II should still look like a Marauder rather than a wholly new design. For example in WWII German tanks looked like German tanks while still being identifiable as separate designs, same for Russian same for American. I can fully grasp and relate to the desire the make the MAD-II look like a whole new design but it still has to relate to it's origins. Maybe I'm wrong, Maybe we just need to see it in person. Maybe with the arms set forward of the hips, and the upper arms canted forward at an angle and viewed at a different point it'll grow on me, but from this static image right now I don't see a link to the original.

Um, yes please. The Nightstar is so underrated as a member of the Marauder lineage.

Lexikon

I see the Marauder II as a step backward for the same reason, because it was designed at the nadir of technology. So I’m more comfortable with this redesign than you are - but I get what you’re saying.

Carlos Sempere

Also, I have no problem if you want to go crazy with the Nightstar. It was supposed to represent a leap forward, just like the Maelstrom and Dragon Fire. The MAD II was more incremental, given when it was built and the tech issues at the time.

Mitchell Berthelson

IIC looks amazing. Literally the only problem I have with the MAD II is the head. Give us this head on that body and I'm fine.....even with the limb rearrangement because one would expect the Assault version to trade away some of its maneuverability.

Mitchell Berthelson

It is just the Marauder IIC, the original one not the Project Phoenix, and it is more like an off-shot of the Marauder. And is projects aggressiveness as it should be.

Angel Salas Martinez

Change is a scary thing for many. In many was your concept makes sense since the Clans would, most likely, have gone a different way. Especially since their design mentality differs so much from the Inner Sphere with the technology they have available. As you say life bets boring when they all look the same.

James Abbot-Cole

You know what you're doing. Stay on this path no matter what. ^_^

Jordan G Roberts

Finally someone speaking, what i´m thinking for decades now. As i started Battletech (1993) i drove directly into the "unseen" debate and as a young teenager with not enough money, i never got the point, why some guys are so proud of there company of unseen marauders (6 Marauder I, 6 Marauder II) looking the same, just with some wings... I like it, when a mechs evolves and the M2 is 25t heavier, than the 1 and should look like that! I love your design and the way you are going, keep it on, please

Andreas Hoffmann

honestly, yes your design philosophy works for me. I don't want the Marauder, Marauder II, and Marauder IIC to be like the Ford Thunderbird , Mercury Cougar and Lincoln Mk VIII. I want a Thunderbird, next to a Mustang next to a Maverick. Body variety is the spice in life!

James Bixby

The Mad IIC is beyond sexy. I love it.

except when you factor in where the Marauder II came from, in the canon. The Dragoons said to the manufacturer: "make us a Marauder but bigger." From Sarna: "Working from existing plans the design phase proved to be very short, the process of reinforcing the Marauder chassis turned out to be easier than expected..." It's literally the same chassis.

Michael Cohen

we've apparently stopped caring about that. Rule of cool. Basically I get to told to stop being autistic when I ask about these things, lol.

Benjamin Myers (Bishop Steiner)

The problem here is not that you've made the Marauder II look different (from the Marauder), it's that you've made the Marauder II look the same... as all the other Mechs. It's a chunky box with a Stone Rhino head and Timber Wolf arms.

Michael Cohen

Very much agreed

Michael Cohen

My Issue: Maruader II was literally an upscaled Marauder. Hence it should share at least the same basic design geometry. Aka, arms forward of hips, less upright upper/lower torso geo, and such. Freedoms with the details, even the windscreen? Fine (though I would prefer a more similar cowl to the Marauder). But the basic silhouette shoudl still scream MARAUDER. It doesn't. It screams.. FatCat with weird cockpit. When your Marauder IIC actually feel closer to the Marauder than your Marauder II, I think that's not a good thing.

Benjamin Myers (Bishop Steiner)

I admit I don't have a lot of attachment to the MAD II so I probably don't have much of a dog in this fight, but I find the argument that having a nearly identical looking Mech, just bigger, is not a good design choice is pretty solid.

William Minsinger

Show me that MAD IIC! Has been my favorite Mech since .. I do not know... 1998?

Lexikon

Love the designs. The only thing I would change with the MAD II in your previous post would be the angle of the upper arms, so that the lower arms protruded a bit more forward. Yes, physically, the center of gravity of the arms should be as close to directly under the shoulder actuator as possible (to minimize long term stress on the structure and the effort required to move them). However, aesthetically, Marauders almost always look like they're leaning as far forward as possible without tipping over, and nudging the lower arms forward a tiny bit would go a long way towards preserving that image.

Joe M Emmert

I love your designs of all three MAD. To me, they are now distinct enough to be able to tell them apart easily but contains the essence of what in my eyes makes MAD. I am excited to get them all. :)

I love this design. Not going to hate on it.

I do prefer this Japanese anime unseen design over bulky MWO one. Looking gray so far!!

Alexei Lundgard

Variant parts available from a retailer? Awesome, I can totally get behind that! That IIC looks menacing, I love it.

Alexander J De Santis

BattleTech doesn't suffer from a lack of design variety. Nor does the Marauder suffer from a lack of derivatives. (Nightstar, Maelstrom, Dragonfire, MadCat family, etc.) It suffers from a lack of Marauder. I've got a fever, and the only cure... is more Marauder!

Re the Marauder IIC, magnificent work. can't wait to see the whole thing. but I gotta ask, how the hell is the pilot sitting in there? :D Is she or he in a semi-reclined position or something?

Steven Cross

Really good reasoning. The old MAD-2 was just physically a scaled up MAD-5D with tiny lil wings strapped to its sides as a model. Otherwise it was near identical to the classic Marauder. IE this thing - https://cfw.sarna.net/wiki/images/7/76/MAD-MarauderII.png?timestamp=20110718104057 Your one seems to owe more of its linaege to the redone Phoenix Mech's that Matt Plog did - https://cfw.sarna.net/wiki/images/4/40/Mad-6d_Marauder_ii.png?timestamp=20110121194205 crossed with the Phoenixed Marauder IIC - https://cfw.sarna.net/wiki/images/a/a9/Marauder_iic_2.jpg?timestamp=20141107000023 but with the longer body and hull of the classic Marauder design. The result is still recognisably a Marauder II but a different take on it. And I like it. The more I look at it, the more it grows on me VS the LORGE MAD-5 of the original art. Perhaps the only change i'd make is covering up the lower front part of the glazed nose, as that's a BIG 'shoot here' and might as well be glowing red as a baddies weakspot during a boss fight.

Steven Cross

I can't wait to see what the Nightstar will look like, since it's also part of the MAD family.

Raymond White

Really luvin how current all these re-designs are feelin. I grew up on battletech as a teenager and since that break i got into the Titanfall series..which really showed how dated much of the btech mech designs are/was. I could easily see this marauder mixing it up with an ION in Angel City.

Not if it´s an upgrade with the LB-X10...but if it´s Clan Invasion, then it should be the LL mounted in the side torso...

Henning Boessler

Wow, that IIC first look is perfect, much more interesting then the MWO one. I liked the MAD II you posted earlier. Shouldn't the laser gun be in the center?

Also, IDK why but your Marauder IIC looks Star Warsy somehow to me (I am an expanded universe fan and know of a lot of designs from that so I may be thinking of something from that for the likeliness) lol

I like the approach you took to the Marauder II for the exact reason you mentioned. Also, that Marauder IIC preview, so far what I can tell, YOU NAILED IT, its one of the designs I was so worried about, I think Unseen Marauder IIC is one of my favorite mechs. In my opinion, what MWO did with the Marauder IIC is sad, I see what Alex was going for, mostly reseen with some unseen styling here and there, but it just dosnt look right(I also understand the purpose of some of the design for game play reasons too, we all want our big long arms on our mechs, but in games, they would just get shot off easier.) I can not wait for the full Marauder IIC image. My next mech I fear the new design of is the King Crab.

My idea of the II is that even though it's commissioned by clanners, it's still domestic to the IS, and during a time when the sphere is being devastated by total war. It's a Marauder frame through and through, but the assault level armor is bulky, a bit clunky, and intended for easy maintenance. The additional cockpit ferroglass lowers the need for as many advanced cockpit screens. It looks the lowest tech of the 3, but also by far the most durable, which it is. The IIC on the other hand is ultra bleeding edge refinement. Clan sleek, Clan deadly.

Anthony Scroggins

The IIC fits my concept of a upgraded Marauder. Something built from progression in technology. The only issue I have with the II is that it feels like many mechs slammed together. Yes it should be distinct from the Maurader, and 25 tons heavier but i would like to see a build up from the original to the II. Especially if we were taking Canon into account, the Wolf Dragoons would have input in what they would Imagine a 100 Ton Marauder would look like with Clan Sensibility. I feel like the II would be alien in a way in 3012 to what other mechs of the time would look like, even in Comparing the Marauder and the "old" IIC

well said!!

Thanks for your thoughts on this - it will make the discussion, imho, better and hopefully more constructive. I personally like the new designs and the changes. It´s the evolution that can and will help Battletech with new players and hopefully free the game from the "Nischendasein" (niche existence) it had the decades. I´m really flashed by the Maro II - to me on first look it "said": "BAM! Here I am and I´ll punch you hard in the face." Just cool - please keep up with what you are doing!

Henning Boessler