Following

Ralph, you got some splainin to do. "The woke movement" <- red flag; the only people who think there is such a thing are people who resist or fear consequences for being jerks.

Chloë Salzenberg

Ralph, I did read your whole post, and I am not trying to play word games, I promise. What prompted my response was the fact that, while you initially agreed that men need to be able to talk about their feelings, you jumped from that to talking about whiny men in a way that, to me, read as though you were still conflating the two. (Also, when you say "women by and large", I find it hard not to read it as "the majority of women".) But if I have misrepresented anything in your post, that's my bad. As for toxic masculinity, it does seem like you don't understand what it is; it is not ill-defined, and it certainly isn't some catch-all term for behavior by men deemed against the zeitgeist. In short, it refers to certain traditional ideas about masculinity that can be harmful and/or unhealthy, like for instance the idea that men shouldn't express emotions. It seems like you're dismissing it out of hand based on some preconceived notions.

Daniel Blom Paulsen

dragonkittyrawr, noone knows what "toxic masculinity" is because it is such an ill-defined term. It is generally used to cover all behaviour my men that is societally determined to be against the norms of the zeitgeist. There is certainly some reprehensible behaviour that some men engage in. And some of it might be misdirected competitive, status-oriented behaviour. However, like many terms emerging from the woke movement, it is a fairly useless dog whistle devoid of useful meaning.

Ralph Little

Daniel, I'm not going to play word games with you. I don't think that I stated that talking about your feelings was "whiny". If you care to read the rest of my post you will realise that my point was that there is a middle ground between over sharing and being stoic to the point of detrimental. Also clearly when I talk about "women by and large" I am not talking about all women or even the vast majority of women. Both women and men are certainly diverse but we are far more alike than we are different.

Ralph Little

"Embrade"??

Tom kennedy

I'm sorry Ralph but Cathal is right, not Thisguy, and you don't actually understand what toxic masculinity is.

dragonkittyrawr

Ralph, talking about your feelings as a man doesn't make you "whiny" - that's exactly the kind of toxic ideas we need to leave behind as a society. And can we please not make sweeping statements about what "women" are attracted to? It maintains the narrative of "women" being some singular hive mind rather than a massively diverse group of individuals with their own preferences. Jaron, I don't see how these are mutually exclusive? "A Friendly Ear" basically confirms that both are the case: Clinton is unsure because he's never been attracted to a guy before (or dated anyone, for that matter), and he also admits to feeling a bit of anxiety at the idea of dating a guy despite not feeling weird about "other queer dudes", which I read as him confirming that it's at least partly due to some internalized homophobia. Like Willow says, it's a lot.

Daniel Blom Paulsen

yeah, they can both be awkward and she can be the part of the triad that makes the decisions and thinks shit through

Daniel Burnett

Calling /u/uwubot

Ohh Crap Guy

Has she been taking lessons from Hanners? https://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1708

Mark

Cwillokoiot.

Mark

I think you're right.

OldGoat

Clinton and Elliot are going to kiss?!?! SQUEEEEEE!!!

Vic or Vyxter

Yes! It has been too long since we've had a good Claire squee

Michele Williams

I'm sure it's Welsh for something as are other strings of consonants with not enough vowels

Jim Feldman

Cwelliowt is Welsh for "fan service."

Nash Wolfe

Seriously. Jeph's explored most other permutations. Cwelliowt would be a good place to start with Poly.

OldGoat

Daniel - I don't actually think so, and I think Willow is off the mark here. What Clinton is grappling with is just the fact that he's probably Bi. Til this bit with Elliot happened, he was never presented as anything other than straight, and it's easy to extrapolate that until Elliot came along, Clinton WAS straight, or at least held no romantic feelings for any other men. This is so much more about him discovering something new about himself and so much less about "internalized homophobia"

Jaron Mortimer

Especially when they go ultrasonic and get all the dogs barking.

Captain Button

I think Thisguy is probably right. Reading the conversation too literally I think. I think it is ironic how stereotypically some people view masculinity though. It's neither toxic nor benign. However, some people are jerks whether they are masculine or feminine and that's just how things are. What I will say though is that regardless of what some people think about men talking through their feelings (and clearly there is some room for positive movement there), women by and large are turned off by whiny men and dig confidence and quiet inner strength. There is an ideal middle ground that I hope I try to achieve in myself but what a big subject that is and something that we couldn't talk out in this forum.

Ralph Little

Mix in Elliot and now it's, um, Cwelliowt.

Shane Wegner

I'm still shipping Clinton and Willow. Clillow? Wilton?

OldGoat

Can confirm. As an oldern brother, my heart doesn't beat. It chants "stop hitting yourself!"

Mattezhion Zane Corgan Campbell

Cathal nailed it; toxic masculinity isn't males being toxic (though it can often take that form), it's the toxic aspects of conservative ideas about masculinity, e.g. being macho, not showing emotions, not being or even being seen as gay, etc. What Clinton is experiencing is clearly remnants of internalized toxic masculinity, in this case specifically homophobia.

Daniel Blom Paulsen

Another word invented by Shakespeare, but deleted from the third draft of Troilus and Cressida. It means hugging a belt sander.

Matt Grayson

I read right over that without seeing it... I never notice the misspellings..

Michael Voorhis

It's OK, Willow. Sisterly squeals of glee are particularly annoying.

Mark

embrade?

Peter Threadgill

Willow Dragonfang is really adorable.

Huw Morgan

I think it might be about internalized homophobia, judging from the conversation in comic 4449. Clinton is cool with "other queer dudes" (side note, that line made me so happy), but when faced with the prospect of actual romance, hand-holding and kissing with a man - and the idea of being visibly "out" if he were to date Elliot - then he's hit with all of the societal expectation that men should be straight, act a certain way, not show vulnerability, not express emotions openly... It's not that Clinton is being "toxic" at the moment, it's that the socialization of men and society's conception of what masculinity is in his environment is holding him back.

Cathal Mc Ginley

TBH, there are a lot of girls in this comic who are into guy on guy. And Hanna was getting involved in guys she doesn’t know LOOOOONG before Brun.

Thisguy

I think that’s the joke. Neither Clinton nor Elliot have what anyone would call toxic masculinity. But Willow, who has only just met them, does not know that. Nor does she know that Clinton’s sister is trans, so the socially conservative comment is kinda funny.

Thisguy

Not really getting who is supposedly toxically masculine in this story, unless lack of confidence or shyness is the new toxic.

Ralph Little

Willow is kinda a weirdo huh. Seems nice enough though a bit suspicious to be getting so involved in someone she doesn't even know. Of course that's how my favorite Brun got in soooo...give her a chance!

Milayna

It's not her squeeing that's the issue, it's that it's his sister doing it! Siblings are always more annoying about things, no matter what's happening

Grace Kieser

Please make this canon.

ducksauz

For sure!

Andrew Mitchell

That's Iris's job, she is a PureGuardBot.

Captain Button

Willow def writes fanfics.

Lightsabr2

Willow's expression of being a pure romantic in the first panel is wonderful

Bagge

Willow is pure and must be protected

Dylan T

What about the time she was definitely-not-judging when Martin had a one night stand? (I spent 30 mins looking for the strip number and failed - please put me out of my misery).

David Durant

The best kind of hardware crash.

Hugh Eckert

I would ask Jeph politely if we could have a comic with Willow, Faye, Marigold, May, and Renee in it, but I'm pretty sure the sheer boob tonnage would tip my monitor over.

Jaron Mortimer

I want the squeals of glee

Thomas Halpin

Squee? Gee!

BobC

That face lol. Also I love you willow and feel you in my soul!

SingingTurtles

*melodious squeeing*

Runhildr Zaetl

Typo on "embrace" in the third panel ❤️❤️❤️

Livy N

Willow’s straight?

Eric Sieck

Ugh, Willow is really turning out to be one of "those" straight girls, and I having flashbacks to my early twenties.

Joshua Bushman

typo alert! "embrade"

Kate Kelly

....... Well. I have to admit, Clinton gets a lot of abuse for just being Clinton. It would be nice for him to "win" w/o the other shoe dropping.

Darnel D Cooper

I wish I could squeal with glee, but in my register it's like a rusty tram wheel crushing a rabbit.

Spoogle McGee

Lol, Claire is about as far from socially conservative as you can get.

JD

Aw Willow makes friends so easily

*quiet squee*

Jackie Horn