Patreon Fee Processing Changes and You

good

Nice

Great work

ASMR Art

I'm still holding Jack personally responsible. The arrogance of sending me a response to my feedback that said "we don't read feedback" is unconscionable. I have 8 of the guy's albums -- while I can't unbuy, I have deleted them all. As for you Jeph, looking forward to the books coming out in the Spring (need to replace my vol. 1 and 2).

Jack Conte (Patreon co-founder) wrote an insightful response to all this; I'm impressed but remain concerned about the conflict of interest posed by the VC money which is also a big investor in Stripe, a key payment processor that would have directly benefited from the now cancelled fee structure. I'm back on board with all my pledges and added a few. Hopefully Patreon will be stable and efficient enough that it's easy to continue to recommend as I had been for years.

Aaron J Peterson

Hi Jeph, keep up the good work. I left and have returned.

We bloody won. :)

Geee.. voting with the wallet WORKED! Patreon CAVED. that has to be the ONLY way to make greedy corporations see the error of their ways. There's probably a useful life lesson hiding in there somewhere! I'm glad I formally exited, if only briefly. AND sent all five of the corporate addresses a SCATHING email (felt VERY good!)...

And Patreon rolled back the changes, so I re-added you. Keep the amount I PayPal-ed you - Happy Yule!

Hugh Eckert

OK, great, the listened to us and realized the fee change was a mistake :) Glad to see that they learned from it. And glad to hear their unresponsiveness was due to what I hoped it would be: they were busy fielding calls and email from the angriest people ;) Link: <a href="https://blog.patreon.com/not-rolling-out-fees-change/">https://blog.patreon.com/not-rolling-out-fees-change/</a>

Janne Peltonen

I think we have to use the Patreon pledge system to get the benefits. I don't want to stop supporting my creators, and I do hate this arrangement because it is blatantly mercenary. How can we do this to be more fair? I'm all for giving you the money directly sans fees. I do like the commentary and content access though!

Freya Thurell

I just received the second blandly condescending response from Patreon. So I just PayPal-ed you an amount = what my total pledge for 2018 would have been (plus a bit). So when I drop my pledge to you, know that I'm still supporting you. I'm still going to support all my creators; I'll use alternatives for those who present them, and grit my teeth and use Patreon for those who don't.

Hugh Eckert

Tried to look at it. Website is not secure and cannot be opened in either Chrome or FireFox.

Cancelled subscription but if i send you money over paypal can i still get early comics?

I used to read the comics from a linked email. I subscribed to Patren to support you, not them. I have worked in a tip based industry, and know what corporate greed looks like. I still get your regular email, and now am actually more likely to interact with your page than I was to the ads on the Patrean page. I'll keep reading, thank you for the quality stories.

And will probably be cancelling all my subscriptions on the 17th. Sorry.

Gerry

Dick move by Patreon.

Gerry

Thanks for your honesty and finding an alternative. I'm going to stick around for as long as I can, but knowing that I can still directly support you in other ways is great.

FUCK Patreon. Paypal link works for me (even if there's no easy way to set up a recurring donation. You can, however, just go to previous donations and repeat). Patreons greed is unconscionable, but that's not why I'm cancelling all donations. It's the stupidity. Some utter shit of an MBA sat in a boardroom with some advanced algorithms and decided that a high enough percentage of Patrons were too dumb to care about getting assfucked, and this was a decision that would ultimately be profitable. I badly want to beat that fucker with a lead pipe. But fuck him, and fuck them. Too bad. I recommended Patreon to dozens of people. That's over. Buh bye.

Ian MacLean

My solution may be a stack of ones, a box of envelopes, a sheet of stamps, and a monthly calendar reminder.

Tom Carlson

Alternative service: <a href="http://Liberapay.com." rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">http://Liberapay.com.</a> One of my other pledges switched there. Jeph - would you open an account there? Seems very lightweight.

Alec Cawley

I've just deleted about 12 pledges to other creators, with text indicating that this is the reason for my dissatisfaction. I would not have minded having a percentage cost applied to cover the transaction fees, or even a percentage plus a single transaction fee per transaction, but the fact that they were basically proposing to charge me 6 bucks per month for the *single* transaction they were performing across all my pledged creators is simply unacceptable. I'll be sadly doing the same in a few days here, Jeph. Frankly, if Patreon does not reverse that aspect of things, I'll cancel all support through their service. This is clear profiteering, and I want to punish them *very very much* for doing it.

Quantum Cat

Until there's a better solution, I'll keep giving my monthly dollar (and 37 cents). I know it's not much, but that is (or was) the point of this site.

Simply put, I've signed a petition, I will send an email, but while you're on this platform, so shall I be.

Mooster

The new fee structure makes it favourable to support fewer creators with more money each, that's just the opposite of what made patreon such a great idea. I'm gonna consolidate my support of other creators and hope you'll survive. Sorry.

Henrik Christian Grove

I want to continue to support, but those fees are just dumb. Please keep us updated on your solution, but I mean, geeze... that's a giant jump and you aren't getting any of it.

I'm cutting all my minor payments and will send yearly lumps instead. See you if Patreon stops being silly.

CrudeButEfficient

I'm only backing 6 people right now at the $1 mark. The fee change means I pay $2-$3 more per month (37% bump for me). I could increase my patronage to $2 per creator and drop the fee ratio down to 20%. I dunno, it's not alot per se, but I suspect it's the principle of the matter. I'll continue supporting folks I like. But this kind of policy will definitely result in a reduction of $1 patrons because patrons will look at their bill jumping up by 37%.... and they will start cutting back on trickle-backing people, which sucks.

Hey Will! Small world! Hopefully, Patreon seems the error in their ways soon - if not, I'll follow you wherever you go, Jeph. I've been reading your comics for years and I'm not slowing down now.

Matthew

Are there any alternatives to patreon that provide the same type of service?

These changes are awful, but I am a huge fan of your work (I swear, Brun is basically the female version of me), and I’ll remain a patron for as long as feasible. If you move to a different platform, I’ll follow you.

Will Weaver

I'm considering switching to PayPal payment on principle. More than the 24-hours lead I'll miss the convenient e-mailing of comics, though...

Paypal it is

Switching to PayPal. I will pay a yearly "subscription" of $60USD - upping my pledge from 2 to 5 per month. I will miss reading the comic a day early as soon as the notification popped up.

Daniel Higgins

Switching to paypal, I can do without the early comic.

I just started at Patreon the other day. I'll stick around as long as you're producing here, Jeph, but if you go elsewhere, I'll follow you there.

Pete Hanson

I only have 1 pledge that's more than once a month, so they can catch me hook line and sinker. I can afford another dollar or 2 a month. Supporting the arts is still important to me. Cheers.

Lightsabr2

I'll be staying. You're one of my absolute favorite comic artists and I love having the platform to interact a bit more directly. Dealing with the fee is a bit easier since you're the only artist I support here ATM. Hopefully they decide to not be greedy suck-n-suches for too long.

Kinda Squirrely

I'm all ears if you change platforms.

Same here, contributing via paypal from now on... Too bad Patreon is so greedy.

Just sent $12.66 through PayPal - a year of $1 contributions plus the PayPal transaction fee. If Patreon reverses this idiocy, I'll sign up again in a year. I guess there won't be any way for me to see future posts about this subject from you after I cancel the pledge, but best of luck, and I hope this gets resolved favorably for you.

Jonathan

Count me in as another one unsubscribing on Patreon and sending through Paypal instead. I'll make it an even 20 since it's close to Christmas and I'm feeling spiteful of those grinches.

Sorry, but not ok with Patreon's money grab. Let me know other ways to give you money regularly.

I paid you a year's worth on Paypal ($12) which should get you time to get an alternative setup. When you get it setup I'll rejoin at $1/month and you can consider the remainder a tip :)

FUCK patreon, I'm cancelling my pledge and I'll go Paypal you instead. You should set up a Google Group or something for non-Patreon payers so we can still get advance comics?

Jeph, if we pledge to you on Paypal instead of Patreon, how will we get access to the early comic strip?

Mish L.

Good luck! just pledged because of Engadget: <a href="https://www.engadget.com/2017/12/08/patreon-fee-change-will-hurt-small-contributions/" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://www.engadget.com/2017/12/08/patreon-fee-change-will-hurt-small-contributions/</a>

I'll be donating to you and my other pledges via PayPal for the time being. I encourage you to check out services like Drip or liberapay.

sorry, Jeph, removing my pledge to send a message to Patreon. If they don't roll back their changes, I will look at paypal

ysth

You could also look into liberapay, which has a 0% fee for creators, and only collects fees from subscribers on a "whenever you top up your balance" basis. You don't get to have 'subscriber-only benefits' but frankly I don't care about those at all, I only want to pay for the web comics that you are already giving away for free, to make sure that they can continue ...

Jim

It's not going to hurt me to much so I'll stick it out but one thing another creator suggested was Drip which is kickstarters WIP competition to Patreon. It's still invite only but if it turns out to be a better alternative it's certainly worth considering.

Gregory Norris

I recommend providing an email address your Canadian current or potential patrons could use to send you Interac e-transfers, instead of paying PayPal fees.

TOFrank

Hello Jeph! I appreciate your transparency and will plan to directly support you in the coming year. The impact of Patreon's new pricing change seems to put those creators with fewer patrons at a huge disadvantage to growing their communities. You have a large and devoted fanbase prior to joining Patreon, so the $20 I budgeted each month to support 16 creators has now been whittled down to 11 creators, most with under 200 patrons. I hope it's ok with you that I deleted my Patreon pledge, but the $$ I plan to give to Patreon I want to use for creators who will no doubt be really struggling in the next year to find patrons.

Amy Watson

I will stick with you for now because I agree with others that your content is worth it. However, I would recommend you look at options such as Liberapay which seem to be a better middleman than Patreon is turning out to be.

Steven Lloyd

Canceled all my pledges. Maybe these jagoffs will get the message if enough people do.

Joshua

I am rich and can afford to keep my pledges, but it would be useful to know if there's anywhere we can complain directly to Patreon.

I'm going to stick around for now. I don't like the change, at all.

Sorry, I'm cancelling all my Patreon pledges in protest of this new fee structure. Jack Conte: $0.35 + 2.9% = 37.9% of a $1 pledge, which is totally unacceptable. Obviously. And it sounds like Patreon is also charging creators 5%? So Patreon is taking money coming and going. Pretty crappy. Here is the reasonable suggestion: * recurring charges are incredibly convenient for Patreon, so no fee charged to patrons, regardless of amount pledged and number of pledges, ever. One time donations might charge a flat fee. Exposing cc fees to holders is never okay. * 5% taken from creators * Patreon, as a simple fascilitator rather than evil, money-grubbing middleman, and lacking the merit of being either creator or patron, absorbs the cc fees and humbly accepts the remainder to keep the site up and pay a small number of employees reasonable salaries. No rent-seeking executive class at all, no constantly growing company seeking ever greater riches.

Aaron J Peterson

Except that there is apparently a minimum charge of 35c, so if one was supporting a bunch of creators to the tune of $1 each (as I do) it could start to mount up.

Mark

Hi, new supporter here happy to jump in and finally pay you for your wonderful brain-thought-drawings. I for one am just fine with the Patreon fee changes, and I think anyone who says they can’t afford to foot that 2.9% fee is full of B.S. On the plus side, the noise finally (finally!!!) got me to come in and back you and a few other comics that I’ve been meaning to find for ages.

I will hit the digital tip jar in the future, but I'm out now. Sorry.

Hi Jeph, I am able to continue to support you despite this, so I will, but I know many people will no longer be able to. I'm furious that the creators have had no say in this, and i am furious that it will lead to you ultimately making less for the meaningful work you do. I'll be contacting the Patreon powers that be with fire and brimstone.

Gillian Brown

Thanks, Jeph! I cancel all pledges the next days … haha, not Willis' one, just to spite you!! Seriously: you'll get some €€€ from me soon. Take care!

Thomas H

If they really break up the monthly batched charge, I will raze my pledge list down to almost nothing or maybe just quit Patreon entirely :(

Todd Whitesel

is QC worth a dollar a month? Fuck yes, it is. Is QC worth $1.37 a month? Also fuck yes it is.

great list! I hope we can switch to one of the alternatives!

Bernhard

I will cancel some pledges in the next few days, and am angry that Patreon forces this on us (creators and patrons alike). Paypal doesn't seem to offer setting up recurring (monthly) payments? Someone made a list of alternatives to Patreon: <a href="https://exilian.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=5446" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://exilian.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=5446</a>

Jonas Richter

Bad news for someone like me who donates $1 to a whole bunch of creators. Also I will never use PayPal in my life because that company is still worse and will not get my business.

Bernhard

I have left a stinker of a feedback post for Patreon via their ZenDesk "contact us" feature. Seems to me this is destroying their entire USP of micropayment crowdsourced funding for creative works. I only joined recently in order to pay a few bucks each month to my webcomic bookmarks and you were not the only one to say "not in my name" on this! If they don't revert this I suppose I will just switch to a PayPal F&amp;F payment and get the strips a day later...

PayPal fees here in Italy, if funded through credit card, are 3,4%+0,35€. I’ll stick with Patreon until you find a solution. I’ll follow you wherever you may publish your work

giacomo vaghi

If supporting you with paypal works better for you then I'll be happy to switch. Patreon can blow it out the end that does the thinking for them.

I do not mind the 2.9%. I was actually expecting this to hit earlier, not having read the "survey" very carefully. I wouldn't even mind 35 cents per month if that's what Visa charges Patreon. But I patreonize 12 creators, so 35 cents per month per person donated to is an extra $3.85 per month, which is like adding 2-3 additional people to my list. I could deal with that if they were giving the creators 100% of the money, but this actually increases their take from $2.30 (plus taking more away from you) to $6.15. Or, if they really process it as 12 separate charges, they don't make more money, but it pretty much eliminates my reason for using Patreon at all. The service aggregates and tracks. The beauty of using PayPal is that after the 35 cents and 2.9%, the creator gets 100% of whatever is left, not just 95%. Setting up PayPal with automation, I could change to quarterly donations, staggered, so the amount that I send would be predictable, the total amount delivered to all the creators per quarter would be the same, but I would save 2/3 of the 35 cent transaction fees. The uneven cash flow might be a problem for the creators, but if a lot of people did that it would tend to average out.

I'd already scaled back my $1 pledges, if this is true I may have to abandon the whole damn thing. I don't need a bunch of $1.37 charges on my account every month. That's absurd.

If you could find a way to make the strip available early to PayPal donors, I’d switch to donating that way. That is, of course, contingent on PayPal donations not costing you more than Patreon donations.

Michael

Let me draw out a chart here for paypal vs patreon now for different pledge levels, comparing apples to apples. Same amount paid to both. $1 pledge, Patreon: $1.38, Creator gets $0.95. Paypal: $1.38, Creator gets $1.04. $2 pledge, Patreon: $2.41, Creator gets $1.90. Paypal: $2.41, Creator gets $2.04. $5, Patreon: $5.50, Creator gets $4.75. Paypal $5.50: Creator gets $5.04. In pretty much every case, the creator gets more from Paypal when you pay the same amount of money.

Kaz Redclaw

The worst thing is... Is that they're apparently not charging lump sums anymore... That means I can't plan for Patreon to come out all at once at the start of the month, but it'll just be randomly based on when you first pledged to a particular campaign. Not only does that seriously clutter up my bank statement, but it totally wrecks my budget planning and makes it hard to tell how much is actually going to patreon campaigns.

Kaz Redclaw

You can go through Paypal at <a href="http://paypal.me/jephjacques." rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">http://paypal.me/jephjacques.</a>

Chris Heg

I fully agree, Al, and I have done roughly the same.

Christopher Heg, that is brilliant, how do you do it ? The way I see it, it's mostly people who give small amounts like 1 or 2$ who are likely to back up with this fee.

Marie

I told them I will donate directly until they change the policy so they get nothing. We'll see if that works with their business model.

Chris Heg

Jeph, you have my support wherever you can accept it. PayPal fees are a bit weird, and even through you pay them, you'll get more if I stick with patreon, so I'll stay here for now, but let us all know if you move!

I've made some calculations and afterall the creator benefits more from this it is true. With the percentage patreon takes from the creator verss the amount of money someone pays, people pay less in all than what the creator pays at the moment (I've checked with my boyfriend's patreon and he pays 10$ to patreon and with this system people would pay 8$ to patreon). So I personnally don't mind paying this percentage and keep being your patron. THAT BEING SAID, most artists I know are very humble people and I know that asking money already on patreon is a big step, but to take the percentage from the patrons will make creators totally uncomfortable! I understand this a 100% (it's the case for my boyfriend too, he's totally uncool with the idea). Patreon should let creators and/or patrons choose the way they make their pledges. This idea isn't a bad idea, it is just not for everyone.

Mari San

I would rather pay you through PayPal. This is crap.

I sent Patreon a note calling BS on this for exactly the same reasons - this is obviously a money-grab on their part and has nothing to do with getting more money to creators. If you put together a petition, I will happily sign it. If this does go through, I'll probably jump on the whole-year-up-front-through-Paypal wagon as well.

Jonathan

I'm going to stick around, but will object to this change through their contact/support area. I typically have a mix of $1 and $5 pledges.

William Burns

I'm giving the "protest with my wallet" DROP PLEDGE, will do a paypal payment monthly. Until such time as you get a new "platform", I can live without the perks... Sayonara, everybody!

Paypal also charges a fee. I don't see how that's a cheaper alternative.

DixonLu

December 18th, eh? they sure gave us all lots of notice...

I'm gonna keep it running for now but let us know if you want to switch platform, I'll follow.

Yup this sucks. I lost 2/6 patrons today to this stupid change. This is going to hurt small creators because people will be unwilling to take a flyer due to paying 38% more on $1 pledges.

By all means send it to everyone, but also send a complaint to the official channel. They won't answer to you at the official channel, but this will drive down their NPS metrics is this is what they care about. (NPS = net promoter score, this correlates with revenue and they will be scared if it goes down quickly. Sadly, sending to individuals don't count into the NPS, so please send the complaints to the support too).

Ricardo Bittencourt

When you find another platform, I'll follow you. Patreon can say goodbye to my fees.

Oops bonus for you I forgot my pledge and thought it was higher! &lt;3 Still worth it.

Jenna Belding

Taking the plunge. I am turning off my Patreon and just sent you my pledge by PayPal. I will do this each month. &lt;3

Jenna Belding

What Michael Wray said - I'd be more than glad to give you $60 for a year's worth of $5 pledges, all up front, and I'm even willing to pay the Paypal fees. I just disagree with Patreon reaching into my pocket under the guise of it being "better for creators", when all of the creators I pledge to are *unanimously* opposed to this move.

Is there a way we can sign up for the "patron-only" stuff but pay you via paypal instead? This is, frustratingly, going to dramatically reduce the patreons I can reasonably support, as I currently pay 20-30 people $1-$3/month. This drastically changes my situation.

If the $0.35 was per transaction this would be reasonable I like having lots of artists I support a small amount each but I would need to drop 1/4 just so I'm not worse off not a single artist I follow uses patron as their sole source of income it may be a large part but this is just shit so mad at them

This is all super duper bullshit and Im mad about it, but at the same time I only have like 5 pledges total, and it only hits me for a little bit in overall, so my pledge for your stuff ain't goin' anywhere. I did send patreon an angry, southern slang filled letter, though

Waffliesinyoface

I don't know if you've seen this: <a href="https://twitter.com/cwbuecheler/status/938787629738397696" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://twitter.com/cwbuecheler/status/938787629738397696</a>

Michelle Wex

I'm gonna switch to sending some via Paypal until Patreon at least allow creators to manage things like this &lt;3

Jeph, I pulled my pledge, but will gladly reinstate once Patreon reverses this policy change.

I have some more Patreon contacts if you want to send a complaint mail: elliem@patreon.com (Ellie MacBride, Community Manager) darby@patreon.com (Darby Thomas, Experience Researcher) jamiec@patreon.com (Jamie Shroff, Patreon Researcher) jessica@patreon.com (Jessica Crabb, Designer &amp; Researcher) tpalmer@patreon.com (Tyler Palmer, VP Operations)

It’s great to read such comments from the “big guys” on Patreon as well! We all must do our best now to let Patreon know that this move is unacceptable!

If they hadn't added that percentage fee, I'd start supporting one creator at a time for 12 times as much, doing the admin here rather than paying this fee 100 times a year.<br>As it is, if they don't have their act together by Christmas I'm yanking all pledges.<br>Everyone open an online store instead, please. PayPal won't let me give you money unless I provide my last 15 utility bills, my driving licence, my passport, my birth certificate and the soul of my firstborn child, but so far Visa and MasterCard are willing to keep my business.

Jumpy James Johnson Junior

What the fuck have Patreon spent 107 million on from their funding rounds? Why do they need so much money (and now have corporate overlords demanding a return)? Surely setting up a website, skimming some cash off other people's transactions and doing not a lot else doesn't need that much cash? Moreover, it's clear that they think their customers/clients are the creators. They are utterly wrong. Their customers are the patrons (just as the creator's clients are the patrons). Serve the patrons and you serve the creators. A fundamental failure of corporate strategy to see their thinking revealed to be the opposite - it means they don't understand their own business.

Samuel Krahl

I'll probably go the PayPal route... It's how I pay Patreon anyway.

Allan MacBain

PayPal is going to charge fees too.... But are you still in Canada Jeph? If so PayPal will allow me to send you a predictable amount every month in Canadian dollars instead of letting it ride on the exchange system as it is right now (from US to Canadian to US back to Canadian again).

Jenna Belding

I sent Patreon a note describing my unhappiness at what they were doing to me, a person supporting 25+ creators at mostly $1 level. Cuz I'm poor, but love so many creators. If they continue with this plan I probably will end up using Paypal much in the way Denise is suggesting above.

AlpineBob

Like Denise Moline, I'm going to be withdrawing my pledge here and moving it to PayPal.

Ken McGlothlen

I am seriously torn. As I have some means, should I increase my pledge to you and "my" other creators or would that be sending the wrong message to the patreon overlords? I feel really bad when I see all the people leaving and I really want to help all y'all out. I hope this doesn't come across the wrong way...

Kenneth Carlile

I will be withdrawing my pledge here and redirecting it to PayPal... though I might only send you a payment every coupleafew months - ironically, PayPal's fee structure is pretty much identical to the Patreon version (except that they don't charge the person sending the money), and you'll get more of the money if I send my eensy amount in quarterly chunks. and you know, if Patreon had a) decided to offer supporters the choice to pay the processing fees, and b) aggregated those processing fees into one monthly bundle rather applying them to each individual pledge, I might very well have shrugged and done it.

Lots of Creators that I support are upset about this change. I plan on continuing my support at the current level.

Just sent you my $1 a month for 2018 via PayPal. Hopefully by this time next year there'll be a better option.

Dan Wilson

Patreon crossed a line. It will be MySpace 2.0 by New Years.

Michael C. Foy

This is a blatant money grab on the part of Patreon and it's aimed squarely at the $1.00 pledges. Something that I've loved about Patreon since it's inception was the idea that anyone can help to support art and artists and this change chips away at those with the least to give. I could understand perhaps a global transaction fee applied monthly to help remove uncertainty, but this change seems to be targeted at those who want to support multiple people at the $1.00 level. I don't think this is a good change.

Nikki

The snowdrift.coop guys seem to have put together a table of various crowdfunding / micropayment sites, here's a link: <a href="https://wiki.snowdrift.coop/market-research/other-crowdfunding" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://wiki.snowdrift.coop/market-research/other-crowdfunding</a>

Janne Peltonen

Thanks for sharing this info. I was directed here from Erika Moen's Patreon page, and this is a very clear explanation of the situation. What crap.

Lee-ann Dunton

I don't intend to stop my existing patronage but would not realistically consider funding anyone on a per-creation model or likely anyone new. Below is the submission I made to anyone who would listen at Patreon, based on email in the earlier update. I wanted to register what is likely being echoed frequently from creators and patrons both: this change is hurtful to exactly the model that Patreon had previously symbolized perfectly. I am a small backer of a variety of different creators (per-month and per-creation), with the understanding that the way the system worked supported exactly that sort of behavior. A pledge of $14 a month to 10 creators/creations (my actual circumstance) hit by a 3.90 fee means that creators are only getting, at $13.30, 74% of my total payment, significantly less than in the old system. I understand the 'usual' fees associated with tiny transactions are exactly in that ballpark but the idea that my payment is aggregated into a monthly payment and creators are paid in a lump sum as well is exactly what makes Patreon superior to simply going to direct payments. Please reconsider this method, particularly for patrons who pledge to a large number of creators.

Cerril

I will switch over to PayPal. What a bummer--it was convenient to use Patreon, but this sort of thing doesn't sit well with me. I'm disappointed that some of the Creators I support don't have other alternative payment options, because I want to keep supporting them, but I don't want to support Patreon's horrible management.

Peggy Youell

Expect <a href="https://d.rip/" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://d.rip/</a> to open up to more creators shortly, I'd guess. Kickstarter (who is building it) is a public benefit corporation, not a for-profit company like Patreon. Jeph, glad to hear you're looking around for other options. This isn't cool, but I guess it's what we should have expected all along from Patreon.

haven't been a pledge for very long yet (jumped on a few months ago to see some of the bonus comics) and the day-early access is cool but ultimately something I'll live without... glad I hadn't invested a lot of pledges yet, because I'd feel a lot worse about pulling the plug (though still would have to, this kind of rate hike is just too much)... wish you the best, and will likely look to support you in the future via merch (unless topatico pulls a patreon, heh)

Matt

I love this idea, but I think it's actually illegal to send cash by mail :D At least in most European countries, I don't know about the States. A postal order, perhaps? Do those still exist?

Janne Peltonen

What an offensive way to cripple the effectiveness of low-level crowdfunding. Feedback sent.

Maurice Kessler

Ooh yeah, fees like this get on my nerves. I'd rather even pay a monthly or yearly fee (banking flashbacks!) then this per pledge nonsense... Thanks for sticking up for pledgers Jeph!

Kriss Pang

As somebody pledging a number of things primarily at the $1-2 level this represents (to me) a nearly 35% increase in fees. It sounds like creators, like Jeph, will get slightly more from these fees but Patreon will get most of it.

This is where I'm having some serious problems with it. If I am supporting 20 creators at $1, I will be billed $27.58. Each creator I support will get $0.95 of that, but patreon will get $7.46. The rest goes to the merchant processor. Patreon is keeping 27% of what I pay for themselves. At least that is if I did the math right...

Peter

the relevant section read "Patreon currently doesn't respond to feedback submissions on their website, but if you'd like to drop them a line, heather [at] patreon (dot) com is the "Creator Care Lead" and I'm sure will appreciate your thoughts on the matter."

OddOod

I just sent them the following feedback: "Hi! I read about the new fee structure. Now, for me, the power of Patreon is the possibility to create a large stream of revenue from numerous very small individual pledges. And from a patron's point of view, the possibility to donate money to many different projects, without the monthly total getting too much. My typical individual pledge is $1. Now, if the fee were just 2,9%, I'd be perfectly okay with that. But with the additional 0.35$ per pledge, my monthly Patreon bill will suddenly get raised by 37,9 % (actually a little bit less, since I do have one $5 pledge in there with all the $1 pledges) - which I find completely unreasonable. Please reconsider."

Janne Peltonen

Yep, indeed. Acting like banks etc, but in the wide open… I don't think it's just a money grab. That sounds a lot like their business model is failing; PayPal etc aren't cheap, usually for the recipients, but not to that extent. That move actively discourages customers to add new, small pledges; bad move, directly contrary to their biz model (source: proofreading lots of Econ theses etc).

Thomas H

If I understand this correctly then it's not just an additional fee per pledge but for those who charge by the page it's also applied to each individual page they put out, and there is no way in hell they can ever convince me that it costs them $0.35 to make such changes in a database. To me it's a blatant scam to charge me fees for ~40 transactions while only actually doing a single one.

BlackestDawn

Another creator said she's already losing money over this. It's absolutely asinine and I can't fathom how they ever thought this would be a good idea. Jeph, I'm sorry you and the other creators are having to deal with this. I won't be going anywhere, but then again, I only contribute a dollar. I can imagine those who give higher amounts are having to rethink things. This sucks.

Celine Chamberlin

<a href="https://liberapay.com" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://liberapay.com</a> is a great option too (it's a non-profit, and they don't fund themselves via a cut of donations, and their transaction fees are basically industry standard)

Ed Marshall

Also gotta love the "We love hearing from you!" at the end of an email from a "no-reply" sender, with no contact information included, and the FAQ article they link you to being "closed for comments". Hey Patreon, you keep using those words, I do not think they mean what you think they mean...

Hi Jeff, Do you have a PopMoney email that we can use? Or another method that we can use to send you monthly? I would use paypal, except that they don't seem to have a recurring option.

Matthew

At this point I'd assume that Patreon's plan is to grab a bunch of cash quick, then trash the company and get out. This move doesn't make sense otherwise. We should all be making 'alternative plans'...

Marc Pengryffyn

If we wanna continue supporting you without Patreon is paypal the best way to do it? At this rate I'm gonna quit patreon and just support those who can take alternative payments, its ridiculous :(

Thank you for understanding my frustration at Patreon for charging 30 transaction fees for my monthly charge. I am at least glad we all know how their fee structure works. I like you and what you do. Whether her or on paypal, my intention is to fund your lunch once a year as a thanks for being awesome.

John Ashcraft

I've changed my 5 $1 pledges to be 1 $5 pledge to you. Each time I de-pledged I marked that it was Patreon's fault.

... Did you remove the email link, or did they?

Meghan

Have written them an irate email. I'll continue to support you, but I'll switch to a non-Patreon method if they don't roll this back.

Hugh Eckert

This change by Patreon is a HUGE disincentive to those of us, like myself who contribute $1 to many creators each month. Basically it’s a 38% increase and I will not allow that. So I am pulling my support for most of the people I have now and will concentrate on the few with $3+ levels. Thanks Patreon.

Michael Booth

Well, all my pledges are 1 USD ones, so unless they change this decision I will be canceling them all. I refuse to pay them 1,7 USD to give you or other creators 0,95 USD. Honestly this fixed amount seems like its designed to kill all the small pledges.

I just did some BOTE (Back Of The Envelope) calculations, and by my estimations roughly 65% of the additional charges I will face will go to Patreon, and 35% to the creators. Now that's some creative financing I can see Corpse Witch coming up with.

Alex Borders

It'll be pre-VAT, I'm sure. The VAT is applied to your total payment.

Buck Caldwell

I can't support that petition. If Patreon had asked me to pay the service fee they pay currently - $0.35 + 2.9% for the entire billed amount - I would do it. It's the "per pledge" part that is the ripoff.

Buck Caldwell

Sent: I find your recent rate change to be insulting, especially in the face of increased competition from services like Drip. The fact that you give 11 days notice before implementing this change is just repugnant. Currently, I support 7 creators on Patreon, to the tune of $25/month and $7/deliverable for non-monthly creators. If you were to charge me a single $0.35 +2.9% for my entire pledge, I would happily pay it and it would cover the charges the processing services pass along to you, since you charge once a month the entire balance due, in a single transaction. The practice of adding processing fees per pledge rather than against the total amount is a blatant scam, a shameless cash grab, and an outright lie to the Patrons of your creators. If you do not rethink this you will lose Creators, and those Creators that stay will lose Patrons. If you truly care about them like you profess, you will heed the surely overwhelming response you're hearing about this.

Buck Caldwell

I just sent the following email: Dear Heather, I am writing in response to the fee changes that have been announced by Patreon. I am concerned and confused because it appears that by taking this action, you are actively disincentivizing the very kind of behavior that Patreon was purportedly designed to enable. That is, to make it possible for many individuals without a whole lot of extra cash on hand to support many content creators and projects they care about in a small way on an ongoing basis, in a way that adds up enough, due to the number of supporters, to make a positive difference in the lives of said creators. Even someone living paycheck to paycheck and/or trying to pay off tens of thousands of dollars in student loans could potentially spare $1 per month to give to their favorite 10 creators, to support creative work that matters to them. But now, a $0.35 charge *per individual pledge*? That $10 per month is now $13.50 per month, with no additional benefit to any of the creators, and in spite of the fact that the fees Patreon pays don't go up based on the number of individual pledges. If I give $10 to one creator or $1 to 10 creators, that makes no difference as far as the credit processing companies are concerned -- it's just $10. One transaction, one fee. So, how can this change be interpreted as anything other than a cash grab on Patreon's part? I don't exactly have a lot of faith in the ability of corporations, especially American corporations, to do right by either their employees or their clients. I had been hoping that Patreon might be different. I think a lot of other users hoped so as well. If you go forward with this fee change, I'm quite sure a lot of us will stop using your platform and find other and better ways to support the work we care about. Please remember the good idea you started with, and the good intent behind it, and roll back the fee changes. Regards, Karen Russell Patreon user since June 2014

The email address pattern for their employees is just first name @ patreon.com so I tried sending emails to jack@patreon.com and sam@patreon.com which are likely the founders emails just for good measure:) So far they did not bounce.

Sarah Urfer

I am thinking about setting up an automatic PayPal "friends and family" transfer so that you get 100% of the money I am donating, because screw Patreon, srsly. (Does PayPal allow that?)

Well, that does it for me on this platform. You're amazing, Jeph. I'll be supporting you via other means.

If they listen and make a change where they do the charge on a per Patron instead of a per pledge level I would find it much more acceptable. That seems like it would accomplish their stated goal, and address the Patreon role that they seem to have lost site of: Making it as simple as possible for Patrons to connect with and fund their Patronages (Patronees? Peeps?). Of course it wouldn't make them as much money, so I guess we will get to see more of their true colors in the process. There is competition in Drip now and this could cause more people to try to compete with them.

Jason

Just did a lump sum PayPal donation for the year. Gonna have to cut down my supported creators. Thanks for understanding.

THIS is how they react to increased competition from services like Drip? Not a wise move. I'll definitely be sending a complaint.

Buck Caldwell

Hopefully our voices are heard about this issue and they rethink their structure (I like the suggestions of charging the transaction fee per charge rather than per pledge) but if you do end up needing to find an alternative, my support will follow you regardless of what platform you need to use.

Claire McKenna

I'm afraid this will change the number of pledges I make. I'll have to drop several. This is terrible. I can hang on to a few high $ pledges I make but the smaller ones will have to be canceled to keep the per-creator surcharge under control.

Emails sent. They run enough money per month to get a much lower rate on credit cards (2.2%) and there is NO REASON for the per pledge charge other then the money grab. I am sorry they made this choose, I hope it does not cost you too much money but I fear it will.

Sarah Urfer

I sent a note to heather@patreon.com. I will figure out a way to send you money regardless, because I love the comic and I think you're awesome (and also, as ever, thanks for being the only way in the world that my fiancé and I ever would have met), but patreon is really irking me right now.

Yes, this. I pay ~$20/month, across 13 creators. With the new fee structure I pay ~$5/month more (~$60/year). If it were per MY transaction, it would be $1/month, which I could totally live with.

Rex Schrader

PayPal’s fees are $0.30 plus 2.9%. However, it’s zero if you click the Friends and Family button to forgo the buyer protection stuff. <a href="https://www.paypal.com/ag/selfhelp/article/what-are-the-fees-for-paypal-accounts-faq690" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://www.paypal.com/ag/selfhelp/article/what-are-the-fees-for-paypal-accounts-faq690</a>

Because creators in Jeph's vein make the majority of their money from patrons who spread small (often $1) contributions across large numbers of people. Those patrons will see massive price hikes and likely be unable to continue doing that, meaning the creators stand to make significantly less money (bad for the creators) and the consolidation of pledges into specific high profile patreon accounts is bad for everyone (creators find it harder to get noticed or support themselves, Patreon itself makes less money because it skims less from unified pledges than distributed ones, patrons get access to less diversity of cool stuff for their money). $20 pledges are ignored because they contribute less to the creators overall because there are fewer of them. tl;dr: Patreon is screwing up the core of its business model and Jeph and people like him stand to lose a lot of money because of it.

Alexa

Sent: Making sure creators get a consistent amount of my pledge sounds great. Charging me a $0.35 transaction fee *per pledge* sounds terrible. Make it $0.35 per *charge* (i.e. when you charge me for my twelve pledges totaling $18, charge $18.87, not $22.72), and that makes perfect sense. $0.35 per pledge is ridiculous.

Josh Smift

While I will not be dropping Patreon because of you and one or two other creators I wish to support, I am upset by this decision. You're right, it is a money grab.

That link failed. This works <a href="https://drip.kickstarter.com/" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://drip.kickstarter.com/</a>

Al Hunt

Thanks Jeph. I'm afraid I will probably stop supporting you on Patron but will look at directly supporting through PayPal as an alternative. Hope they come to their senses, being able to provide small amounts of support across multiple creators is what I liked about the system, and I don't like being penalised for doing so.

Jon Seaman

Thank you for taking the time to address this; I had a sick feeling in the pit of my stomach when I read the email that this was going to rebound negatively onto creators. At this point I'm only supporting six creators, a couple at a level above $1, so while I pledge $12 a month I'm only ("only") looking at a $2.5 fee. It still sucks, though - mainly because I wanted to start supporting additional creators. But with a 38% fee on a $1 pledge? Nope, no way. What an awful shame.

Charlotte Grubbs

Damn. I feel sick about this. I just reviewed my creators. I've got 7 days to decide which one or two get a large donation and which of the others I have to drop. And they're all so deserving. Fuck you for making me feel like this Patreon.

Al Hunt

I just sent Heather an email with my concerns about the chilling effect this could have on more accessible pledge levels. However, besides that concern I'm relatively ok with the change.

(thank you for the noise you've been making around this)

courtney

For Charles: The change being made are based on a per-pledge fee. Patreon and other companies who use credit card charging don't have to do individual charges; they submit them as a batch of charges and are charged a flat fee on that batch. This amounts to overcharging patrons. In addition many patrons use a micro-size payment, often just $1, to support many many creators. The $0.35 per-pledge charge has a net effect of increasing the cost to people by 35%, which is huge.

Joshua Thomas

Thanks Jeph. I sent them a message earlier asking if I was reading it right, if they really were going to hike my costs on here 38%. I can't give all the comics I read $20 a month, but I can give 20 people $1. I figured this site was a "support by large numbers" type of deal. If they don't make a hasty retreat on this policy I'm going to have to cancel my pledges. At least you know it's nothing personal at you.

BTW Patreon has learned from Russians, Verizon, there are fake posters on Twitter and Patreon shilling for new model. I will send you screen grabs from twitter.

Michael C. Foy

I really hope you're going to be looking into other services to use as a replacement. I truly do want to support you, but not if I have to pay an absurd per-transaction fee to do so.

Rachel

Kickstarter launched a new service called Drip (<a href="https://d.rip/)" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://d.rip/)</a> which is a direct competitor to Patreon. Maybe you could use that?

Lars Josephsen

just sent this email:Hi Heather, I just wanted to drop a line and respond to your email about the 39% rate hike on $1 pledges. I have always felt like the $1 pledge level was the thing that made Patreon uniquely magical. I could send a dollar each month to a dozen artists who were also receiving dollars from tens or hundreds or thousands of others, sometimes with no reward other than knowing we were helping an artist continue making art. Everyone hates Ticketmaster and LiveNation because of their 30% service charges. Patreon just said "hold my beer" and announced a 39% service charge. I fear this is the beginning of the end for Patreon. It will mostly likely be the end of the majority of my monthly pledges. It's been worth the dollars but not when 40% is going to overpriced service fees.

sirshannon

I sent a message to Heather Heather, I don't understand the logic behind the new per-pledge fee from Patreon. You do one, single, lump-sum charge against my account each month for all my pledges. So why is the fee per-pledge? This means the fee is a significant portion of my low-dollar pledges. I cannot see how this accurately represents the processing necessary for my pledges.

Richard

Thanks for paypal option. Was going to add you to my Patreon layout, but quitting by Dec 31st if not changed.

Michael C. Foy

as a patron of numerous people on this site, I have read your posting, and I have absolutely no idea why you are upset? You are making money, and the mechanism of this website that allows you to make money is also entitled to make money and pay their bills and their investors. You keep complaining about those that give you $1, but it is a different financial model for those who give you $20, why do you ignore this additional information? Confused

charles

Since I'm one of those "give a lot of people a small amount of money" patrons, this change will cost me 20% (or more, depending on how much some creators post) of how much I donate. 20%. That's utter crap for a service fee; even a money order is cheaper, what the heck?

aetherspoon

Would it be possible to send you $12 and get on a mailing list for early updates for a year...?

Morgan Bauman

I too have sent them a message. Patreon evidently think that they are big enough that they can get away with this kind of crap. I think that they will quickly discover their mistake. If this is not fixed, Paypal it is.

Ralph Little

This is my question as well. I like starting each day with a new comic.

Thank you for reaching out to us. It means a lot to me, and I hope to a lot of the community, that you wanted to give us an update when Patreon decided to mess with the rules. I'll be here for the long haul - don't you worry!

Haldon Lindstrom

Hi Jeph. Just pondering this - I love the comic - the core comic most of all and also the little extras every now and then - but it seems like the best thing to do is to fire you over an annual sum via PayPal and then stick to the blog comics for now - does that seem fair? I don't want you to have extra hassle and I'm not sure that Patreon have really understood my motivations for essentially tipping a cool artist for work they are putting out into the world anyway. It's not a lot of money but I hope that it makes up the bigger whole. Still love your work, don't let the man get you down!

I support people who charge per post. Patreon is charging service fees per post too.

Michael Phillips

I ended my email with “this change right at the holidays feels like something Trump would do. And frankly, i thought you were better than that.”

Andrew Hess

If we send you money via paypal, how can we still get access to the things you are posting? I will also be complaining to patreon.

Michelle Wex

Jeph, do you have a PO box where well-meaning fans can just mail you cash? I’d rather spend Patreon’s service charge on a stamp.

Yiiiiiiiikes. This is... disappointing. I have a lot of $1 monthly pledges and a few larger ones. The larger ones bring the total service charges down to something reasonable but holy crap! 10 pledges at $1.00 each would cost $13.90 instead of $10? That's higher than Ticketmaster's service charges. I don't think it's a big deal on the large pledges but, in my opinion, the $1 pledge level that lets so many people stay in touch w/each other easily, that's what makes Patreon so magical. I can see a lot of $1 pledges going away because people don't want to pay a 40% service charge every month. This seems terrible to me.

sirshannon

I saw Danielle's post first and promptly wrote Patreon to give them a piece of my mind (with facts and math rather curse words, even though the latter would have been more satisfying). I hate how disruptive this is for you guys. And of course I'll use whatever platform the artists I support want to use, because that's all that matters in the end. Pledge perks are enjoyable bonuses, but I have to admit that I *will* really miss how easy it is to interact with creators and other readers, and I'm pissed at Patreon for messing with that.

Sarah Manx

I'm unfortunately in a wonky financial situation, so I need to start cutting back anyway - but, for my part, I'm collating all my fave content creators' paypals I can find into a list. When things stabilize on my end - assuming Patreon doesn't take responsibility for this mess and lets patrons at least have an choice to opt in? - I'll contribute again as able. Thank you so much for your vocal stance on this, but MOST especially: Thank you, a hundred times over, for Questionable Content. I need to sit down sometime and write all the ways it's been a help to me over the years... but until then, just know that you've made this silly sap's life better with your work. So yeah. Thanks man. You're a good dude, and I'm glad we share a world together.

Thanks for posting this clarification, Jeph. I just sent a detailed email to heather about how confusing the initial statement was, and how upset I am at what feels like a really greedy price increase. You're awesome, though! Keep up the amazing work!

Mike Kirsch

Jeph, your comic is one of my favorite comics, and one of the more optimistic sci fi worlds I've seen. I will use the platform you think is best. Let me know if you want me to cancel here and go to PayPal or any other solution. I'm here for you, not them

frank sands

Sent. What the hell Patreon...

Gunnar

Sent:As a long-time Patreon supporter, I am deeply disappointed by the recent change to fee processing. This change, under the guise of "helping" creators will be, as you're very much aware, hugely damaging to both creators and the Patreon brand. I'd developed a trust for the Patreon brand and believed it supported and believed in their creators. Clearly, this is not the case. The fee change actively discourages small donations to a large number of creators. A $1 donations now includes an additional 37.5% "tax". Unbelievable and unacceptable. I actually support making the fees clear and passing them to the Patreons, but this is simply unreasonable. A simple change, such as "+2.5% per donation, + $0.35 per-PATREON-per-cycle" is still a bit of a money grab, but far more tolerable. I hope Patreon returns to its senses before they do irreparable damage to their brand. I will happily abandon Patreon and follow my creators to one of the other platforms in a second. I think you'll find this is a common opinion. Patreon simply doesn't have the brand loyalty that they think they do. Al Hunt Until recently, a happy Patreon backer.

Al Hunt

Ah what the fuck! I have like 15 people I support. That’s a lotta money

"Heather, No offense, but these additional fees being offloaded to the people to voluntarily give others money through your service are bullsh*t. I'll be cancelling most if not all of my pledges until this is undone. -Ray"

ziPRR

I currently give just $1.01, as I am a broke dude. With this new plan, I would be charged $1.39. So that's what I'll be sending to Jeph via PayPal, then screenshotting my donation and posting it to Patreon's Twitter. Fuck them.

Jeph, thank you for all the work you've done with this. I first heard about it from your Twitter and have been trying to figure out how to work around this since (it's probably going to be a horrible cycle of one large pledge rotating between creators which will cause more uncertainty than less). You're doing so much more work than you should be expected to to keep this system working and I really appreciate you giving us an alternative means of support if Patreon doesn't get their act together. I posted this suggestion as somewhat of a joke to Ryan North, but now I'm starting to believe it: all you creators talking about this should get together and send Patreon an invoice for PR services rendered, because from where I'm standing the creators are the only ones letting us know that this is happening and how it will work (I still haven't even gotten an email notification from Patreon about this change, much less a reply to my support request about it).

In the UK we also pay 20% VAT on top too, so $1.00 is already $1.20. Not sure if the extra 2.9% + $0.35 is pre- or post-VAT, but I feel this is a generally sucky move from Patreon.

Oliver

"this will be fine because we did a survey" Never saw this supposed survey... let me guess, they surveyed their investors?

nagi

What really got me is that in their e-mail they wrote "We love hearing from you!" and gave no means of speaking to them! If there will be another way of getting my money to you and maintain early access, I'll switch in an instant.

Evgeniy Semyonov

I just emailed heather@ abou this. No bueno.

Ugh. So disappointing that something good is turning less so. Thanks for giving us options here. I'm cool with supporting you via PayPal. I do see they also will charge you a fee. Do you mind sharing with us what that is, in case those of us w/ a bit extra in our fun money accounts wish to cover that fee for you?

Jason Hunter

Same!

Oliver

I sent am email to this Heather just now and let her know what I think about this.

Jeph, I love you and your comics, but I hate PayPal, who have boned me personally. I'm sure I'm not the only one who's got bad PayPal stories. Any chance to open up something else? Square? Dwolla?

David Souther

As soon as I read this, I knew it would hurt Creators. It encourages one large donation to a single creator rather than many small donations to a lot of creators (which I feel does far more good, personally). I've already sent their "support" email my dissatisfaction. I suggested (+ $0.35/creator, capped at $1.00 per patreon per month).

Al Hunt

I'll donate however so that you can keep creating and I get to keep reading your strips as soon as available. If we can do PayPal and it works better for you, I think everyone can make that work.

Me and you are platform independent. I'll follow you wherever you go.

Thank You Jeph for the amazing years of complete awesomeness that you have given me and my friends! I do not send money each month to support Patreon but you yourself. I will be cancelling my subscription but will donate personally to you however I can!

Spudnikrx

The more I look at this the more it looks like a terrible idea to me. It's already difficult enough to know how much you're going to end up being charged a month, largely because pledges amounts don't include VAT. This 2.9% + $0.35 for every sodding pledge is just ridiculous. A single 2.9% + $0.35 surcharge for the whole monthly transaction I could cope with.

Chris Crowther

I have a bunch of 1 dollar pledges and they're going to force me to cancel some to stay within budget. I don't see how it helps anyone...

Ivar

I posted something similar on Twitter. Absolutely furious about the blatant cash grab by Patreon, to the detriment of Creators. Someone linked me to a petition, and I thought I’d share it here in case anyone thinks it will do any good: <a href="https://t.co/pZcAnR1N9S" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://t.co/pZcAnR1N9S</a>

David D.

Jimmie status: Rustled

Nikki

If there way a way I could donate via Paypal &amp; still get the 24 hr early access, I'd consider it.. Otherwise, I'll stick with Patreon, at least for now..

John Madigan