If you know...you know :/ Series 9 - Face the Raven
Added 2024-03-16 15:00:05 +0000 UTCWell shit........
Comments
Thank you for your thoughts about the episode, and also for mentioning Claras sentecnce about Danny. I didn´t hear or recognize that on my first watch. That´s heartbreaking .... Haha I think it´s funny that an actor ina Classic episode plays a character with an extended life and in New Who he plays a character that dies early. :) Reading those sentences from that episode, makes my eyes tear up again.... Thank you for always including them in your comments. :)
Nicologik
2024-03-22 08:17:43 +0000 UTC"If you want your extremities to stay attached, stand absolutely still. If not, we can provide a small bag.", The Doctor, "Face the Raven" Nice to see Rigsy again. Although, I guess, he's moved cities since "Flatline". And we get a reference to people being "retconned" - like Captain Jack was doing in Torchwood. Perhaps this alien sub-society got hold of some of Torchwood's spare supplies? We see the Doctor's apology cards again. They were a nice little joke in "Under the Lake", and I'm happy to see them once again although it might get a bit tedious if it keeps happening. "Maybe this is why I kept taking all those stupid risks", Clara, "Face the Raven" I do like the brave way Clara faces her death. And she references Danny: "if Danny Pink can do it, so can I" as she does. BTW: I agree with Stephen. The way I understand it, was that Ashildr could remove the contract from the original person, or the original person could pass it on. But if it were passed on, then Ashildr couldn't remove it and it couldn't be passed on again. And the Doctor would have known that. But I could be wrong. I've just watched a Classic Who episode which had the actor who played the character who had been marked for stealing the medical rations for his wife. But if I hadn't seen the name in the credits, I really wouldn't have recognised him. He looks really different. Fortunately, for the actor, in that Classic Who episode he gets to have an extended life time. I suppose these things cancel themselves out - in one story he dies, in the other he gets to live longer. The two-faced Janus characters reminded me of the two-headed character in the TV version "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy". That was filmed 35 years before this episode and they used an animatronic puppet attached to the actor's shoulder. It was notoriously unreliable and hardly worked at all in the show. I was reminded of it by the two-faced creatures in this story, because the second face doesn't do a lot on screen in this one until a special effect switches things over. This was 35 years later - and the trap of the uncanny valley of almost realistic faces is still very hard to film. "Everything you are about to say, I already know.", Clara, "Face the Raven" That is a paraphrase (although with a switch of sense) of a famous Sherlock Holmes line. "All that I have to say has already crossed your mind.". Given the show runner's fascination with Sherlock Holmes, that wouldn't be a coincidence. "You will not insult my memory. There will be no revenge. I will die. And no one else here or anywhere will suffer.", Clara, "Face the Raven" Clara, you were great!
Andrew Vignaux
2024-03-20 10:30:49 +0000 UTCOh thank you :)
Nicologik
2024-03-18 19:36:12 +0000 UTCHi Nicole have a listen to this https://youtu.be/QoggQqTYZcQ?si=YE6zNn80o4LJK5fb I had no idea that Peter released an album in 2021 I think it’s pretty good he wrote and plays all the instruments
Jenny Smyth
2024-03-18 15:34:54 +0000 UTCYeah....Thank you sooo much for this Clarification, cause OMG how could that happen to me. You guys are always so forgiving if my make obvious mistakes like that one, thank you. I really appreciate that :) Also thank you so much for clarifying the deal issue as well. :) Well it is hard for me to wait for the next episode as well. I have been on the edge of my seat for the last days. Today I might finally be able to watch the episode, and I´m sooooo ready to get into this....Well, I hope I am. :D :D
Nicologik
2024-03-18 09:43:02 +0000 UTCYeah that ending was way harder watching it for the second time :( The first time I was hoping that they´d save her somehow, so it wasn´t that bad. Yeah...Rigsy..... Well..... I guess that was another one fo my confusing moments. I mixed them up completely. Such a typical NicoLOGIC moment :D :D Yeah Clara is on second place right now, but to be honest she might even be on first place together with Amy and Rory. I haven´t decided yet. :D
Nicologik
2024-03-18 09:38:58 +0000 UTCThank you. Well it´s more or less been like that for 4 years now. Kinda beeing used to it, but it bugs me when it´s not getting better for a whole week and it influences my reactions. Usually I have one or two good days a week, that I can then use to record my reaction :)
Nicologik
2024-03-18 09:36:13 +0000 UTCThank you Andrew, I´m gonna react to that before going into the next episode :)
Nicologik
2024-03-18 09:34:22 +0000 UTCI have to admit, that watching the episode was harder the second time. Knowing what is going to happen made the conversation between the Doctor and Clara so much more sad. Cause when I watched it the first time I thought it could all be a play, and maybe she wont die for real. That´s why I was able to still keep it together during that scene. It hit me hard that she had to die in this specific episode, because I epect something like that to happen in finales only. Don´t know why, cause with Dr. Who it´s never been like that :) But a few days later know and after thinking a lot about her death I think I know why it happened before the finale really started.I´ll talk about this at the beginning of the next episode, but I might be onto sonething here :D Thank you so much for the explanation of the two different contracts. I was indeed thinking the source of both of them is the same. So thank you for clarifying :) Also thank you for letting me know about that scene :)
Nicologik
2024-03-18 09:33:47 +0000 UTCOk there seems to be some confusion on this episode. Rigsby is the character from the episode Flatline (the one where the Tardis shrank with the Doctor inside). He's not the person sent back by Danny at the end of series 8. Stephan's already covered it but yeah the timer/death thing is a deal Ashildr made with the Raven. And once Clara took it it can't then be passed on again. The deal with 'them' is concerning the capture of the Doctor and the confession dial. As for this episode it's 4/5. I have it ranked at 44th/140. There is a bit of slowness in the middle but Clara's death is done beautifully. There are some great scenes between the Doctor and Ashildr/Me especially with his anger and there's the really touching scene at the end with Clara too. It's going to be hard waiting for the next episode so hope you recover soon.
Jade Ellis
2024-03-16 17:56:58 +0000 UTCI have seen this episode many times and the ending always gets me. I agree the middle of the episode lags a bit. Lovely to see Rigsy again, but the scene between the doctor and Clara is heartbreaking great acting from both. Clara has always been my favourite companion.
Jenny Smyth
2024-03-16 17:40:42 +0000 UTCI’m so sorry your throat is still bad x
Jenny Smyth
2024-03-16 17:37:14 +0000 UTCGood spot! Here's a safe copy of the scene: https://youtu.be/Q08eBdAT9C0?si=6n2xtrxtXBjR2y3E
Andrew Gwilliam
2024-03-16 17:14:26 +0000 UTCps There's an out take somewhere on Youtube of Jenna doing her "face the raven" pose and then forgetting that she has to sink to the ground afterwards. Instead she starts laughing and says "I forgot to die!" pps Thanks to Jenny for reminding me that in the excitement of the episode I forgot to say that I am also sorry about your sore throat. And about forgetting to say so. ppps I just re-watched the YouTube edit of your reaction to The Woman Who Lived and at one point you say "if you leave her again she's going to turn into an antagonist of yours". Very perceptive indeed!
Stephen Males
2024-03-16 16:56:32 +0000 UTCI
Stephen Males
2024-03-16 16:47:41 +0000 UTCI have watched this episode so many times I honestly can't remember whether I thought that Clara might die because of what she did. Most of the times I have seen it I have said "what the hell are you playing at, Clara?" or something similar. But that may just be because I know what is going to happen. The first time is a blank. I would say that I have been retconned except that I am sure I cried at the end. From the time Clara starts saying goodbye the the Doctor until she actually is killed it is almost unbearable to me and I think that hasn't changed at all. One reactor spent the last few minutes of this episode shouting abuse at "Me" and saying that she would never watch the show again. She did, of course, but at the time I had never seen anyone so emotionally devastated by a tv programme. I think you may be(quite understandably) confusing two different contracts. The thing that manifests itself as a raven is what the Doctor called a "quantum shade" and that is who (or what) Ashildr/Me promised a soul to. This is the contract she can no longer break because Clara has changed the terms by taking the tattoo from Rigsy. I am not sure but I think that once Clara accepted it the thing can no longer be passed on. Although that certainly isn't made clear in the story. The reason Ashildr/Me created this trap for the Doctor is because of a different deal which she made with "them", whoever they are. In that one she had to deliver the Doctor to them and take his confession dial. In return "they" would allow her refugee camp to continue in peace. That second deal sounds more like a demand with threats than a deal that anyone would enter into of their own free will. But I don't think it is the same as the other contract. The one about the death she had promised to the "shade". There is a small, very very brief scene after the closing music but I am not sure if you can view it without stumbling into the preview of next week's episode. I hope you can because it is quite beautiful.
Stephen Males
2024-03-16 16:40:44 +0000 UTC
