Assassination Classroom 1x16 Reaction Extended (YT link below)
Added 2025-03-05 02:00:05 +0000 UTCIn Assassination Classroom 1x16, School's Out/1st Term,
1) Prepare (you / of / test / can't / right / horrors / relive / gets / the / possibly / questions)?
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Related to the show I've experienced it directly in teaching. When I taught at an HS in China that sent students to universities in Australia, since none of the kids could compete based on English scores, they were discouraged (actively by the faculty) to give up on it in favor of subjects like math and physics. I've also been thinking about it in terms of less tangible things, like happiness, which maybe is better thought of as a measure instead of a goal. There's also the idea that what gets measured gets managed, the shadow of which being what can't be measured doesn't get managed. But there are so many important things that CAN'T be measured, and maybe in a LOT of cases the measurable is the byproduct rather than the goal. So as an abstract thought exercise I've been wondering how to more properly identify the immeasurable and reward for it without falling into the same measurement traps
Alex G
2025-03-18 07:54:37 +0000 UTCNo worries, I certainly know how easy it is to lose something when context switching a lot. I'm frequently amazed on how relevant and applicable Goodhart's law is in completely different fields, times, and contexts. For instance, it comes up a decent amount in my profession (software engineering), specifically around how to measure the output of a software team or engineers (to which I don't have a good solution for). Or the naïve case of measuring (and judging) the amount of bugs, which doesn't result in less bugs, but simply less bugs that you know about (which is clearly worse). But since I've learned about it, you can really see it pop up in a lot of places. Sometimes it's a minor effect, other times, a major one.
baseballlover723
2025-03-18 07:26:36 +0000 UTCI read part of this comment as a pop up notification and then lost it to a new notification, but I had to come find it, if nothing else but to thank you for introducing me to Goodhart's law, which I've been thinking about for a few weeks now
Alex G
2025-03-18 07:07:07 +0000 UTCI recall the first time I ever failed a test (that wasn't just because I didn't attempt to do it), which was in college. I remember the shock and disappointment (in myself) when I got back my test and there was a big fat F on it. It was a clear wake up call for me that just coasting through like I had in high school (for which I had never studied at all for any test), wasn't going to cut it anymore. Luckily for me though, the adjustment wasn't that difficult (it was something I had been warned about extensively by my dad going into college) nor all that much (turns out all I really needed was for me to actually try and assess how prepared I was for said tests and spend a few hours of dedicated effort when I wasn't confident). The same cannot be said for some of the people I met at college though, who couldn't put in the effort to succeed and ended up dropping out (we had a saying that more people dropped out because of League of Legends then because they weren't actually smart enough).
baseballlover723
2025-03-05 07:39:32 +0000 UTCFor sure the relationship between the "what" and the "why" isn't always obvious (even today, I still learn best when there are some concrete things I can anchor myself to and track in the context of the "why"). Imo, the root cause of not liking school for most people, is a disconnect to seeing how it benefits them. Usually that they don't feel that the topics will be useful to their life. And they may not even be that wrong (though kids are also fucking stupid for many things). I agree with you that as long as the metrics we measure students by, is the knowledge they know (ie, specific content), then memorization will always be the most efficient way to get the most people there. And, for some, that can also be a pathway to understanding the "why". The core issue is as you've mentioned, it's incredibly difficult to measure (fairly, without bias) actual learning capability, and extremely easy to measure if someone knows a particular piece of knowledge or not. And not just easy to measure, but you get out a number that you compare against other students. It's Goodhart's law in action. I'm not 100% sure I understand exactly what you mean by the levels of aims, but it reminds me of a number of stories of how people feel completely differently about schooling when they go to college and have the freedom to study what they want. Though I certainly wasn't one of them, since it was very clear what direction I wanted to go in with my life and how I was gonna get there (family background and all). There's a big difference between someone telling you that you should learn something for your own benefit, and you yourself realizing that you should learn something for your own benefit. Sometimes the former leads to the latter, sometimes not. I certainly wasn't immune to that sort of effect either. When I was in high school, my older sister came home and told me about how she had taken a programming class and had thought I'd be really interested in it and love it and I think my exact words were "that sounds like work" (it would after all, cut into my free time). Fast forward a few years to me entering college (about 3 weeks into my first quarter), and it took me all of 2 hours (though I had some programming experience prior via a college summer camp and also my dumbass deleting the games on my calculator (and being extremely bored in class and a calculator being an acceptable device to be on during class), though I think those all came after my sister told me about programming) to convince myself that I should switch from Civil Engineering to Computer Science. Luckily for me, this ended up being early enough that it was inconsequential in the grand scheme of things. But for others, that's not always the case. As I grow older, I grow more and more appreciative of my dad and his role in my learning and the way he guided me to becoming the person I am today. Frequently during those times, all I could see was the additional work and knowing that I could get by with less. Now, it's clear to me just how valuable it really was and I even find myself arguing the exact same things and their value to others who don't see it yet. Anyway, people perform best when they want to succeed. And I think that knowing why you should want to succeed is a fundamental step of that process (and easiest when it's beforehand).
baseballlover723
2025-03-05 07:21:50 +0000 UTCWow that's really cool how that torch has been carried by your family. My mind immediately went to other fields in this episode but you're right, it applies directly to their example of science. We're taught with a heavier emphasis on the tools or the "what" as you put it and less the aim or the "why." Some of that is understandable because the relationship between the what and the why isn't always linear. In my experience often you have to just start somewhere and they will develop in tandem. And it may also be that there's an incentive in education to teach the memorization, the formulas etc over the philosophy and importance because it's easier to quantifying and therefore easier to design a curriculum and to measure progress within that curriculum. But some of it also just feels like it's lost, it's been TOO abstracted, and now we're in love with the tools or playing the game of "education" instead of the game of science or economics or what have you. I think I talked about this in this video, can't remember, but there are levels to the aims themselves, and some of them are not adequately captured by the distinction of "subjects." The abstraction of subjects is a tool for specific insight, just as the memorization and formulas are often tools for the subject. And in the arena of whatever those higher pursuits are, you get sort of that raw life stuff, like your process, reasoning structures, maybe values, and some really nice things that are harder to get to.
Alex G
2025-03-05 06:15:57 +0000 UTCYou're telling me you're not gladiating during the exams?
Alex G
2025-03-05 06:01:57 +0000 UTC5:30: I actually find Science to be the least about memorization (at least to me). To me, Science is really about the Scientific Method, aka, a framework for advancing your own understanding of the world as you receive new information about it. To assert that it's simply about memorization, completely misses the point (though no doubt many people feel that way). Perhaps I'm biased though. Since I was practically raised from birth (my grandfather worked as a chemist on the Manhattan project and my dad did science writing for a living) to go into STEM (which did happen). To give a personal anecdote. In High School, I took basic physics (somewhat unwillingly, since there weren't enough interested students for AP physics, which is what I should have been taking) after I had already taken Calculus BC. Our first unit was Kinematics (how things move) and it started with us getting a paper with a number of equations on it. Equations that I never bothered to learn, because I already knew calculus. It was far easier for me to just derive the equations myself from 1 or 2 fundamental equations that I already knew, than it was for me to memorize 7 or 8 equations that were easy to mix up amongst themselves. I talked to my teacher about it, and he didn't have a problem with me doing it (other then warning me that it'll end up being more work for me sometimes, as the questions would be aimed for people to use the given equations. Which ended up being true, but only rarely). So I paid 0 attention in class (for that unit, other units I did have to pay some attention to) and mostly just fucked around on my calculator while acing every exam (once my overall grade went down after a perfect score because it wasn't curved hard enough). The point being, the "what" isn't really that important in Science (or really school in general). It's the "why" and "how" that are so much more important (and what some people just completely miss). Because with those, you can find the "what" if you want / need to (though it might take some work). You've mentioned this a few times (or something very close to it I'm pretty sure), but I most clearly remember how my dad worded it: "You have to learn how to learn".
baseballlover723
2025-03-05 05:41:35 +0000 UTCIm also doing midterms but they’re not nearly this exciting.
Anya Mcghee
2025-03-05 05:27:21 +0000 UTCLove the wake up call for Karma in this episode and his dynamic with Asano is one of my favorites in this show even though they look the same lol
Kimats0548
2025-03-05 05:17:08 +0000 UTC
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