Frieren Episode 7 Reaction Extended (YT link below)
Added 2024-03-29 01:00:03 +0000 UTCIn Frieren episode 7, Like a Fairy Tale, pro-level human diplomatic tactics include lateness, screaming, weeping.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
YouTube Link:
https://youtu.be/D8ujyoa9FRo
Comments
Me, a German, wow, I wonder if I can trust this character that was just introduced, whose name is literally "Liar"
Anna Lena Ciplajevs
2024-05-15 19:17:17 +0000 UTCThis is an incredible explanation wow
Shaggy
2024-04-01 01:08:17 +0000 UTCThanks for pointing out that my post read weirdly, I think I managed to edit it to get my point across better.
Arakis
2024-03-30 00:00:38 +0000 UTCDo you remember why they're called demons though? Don't answer in here since it's a spoiler from a future episode, but just something to chew on
Rekway
2024-03-29 23:30:23 +0000 UTCI don't think that disregards what I'm saying. These creatures probably don't have empathy and yes do see speech as a weapon. But I'm wondering if you made the case to them they can benefit from a deal and it's pure logic if they'd take it.
Sage
2024-03-29 20:28:48 +0000 UTCHave to disagree considering the Demon's themselves in this episode admit that Frieren is the only one who understands the true nature of Demon's. Whatever Frieren says about them has, so far, been true. They've only used Human speech to deceive and manipulate.
Jasmine Tea Enjoyer
2024-03-29 18:51:04 +0000 UTCGoodwin is the most pro-Demon reactor I have ever seen lmao. My man Alexander... they are literally called "DEMON'S". They are bad!
Jasmine Tea Enjoyer
2024-03-29 18:48:40 +0000 UTCRegarding the behaviour of demons in Frieren, it's comparable to something that is sometimes seen in nature. Wikipedia calls it "aggressive mimicry", where an animal evolves some of the same features as its prey species or the prey's food source in order to more easily prey on them or otherwise take advantage of them. For example, there are insects that have evolved to look like ants or give off the same pheromones as ants so that they can infiltrate an ant colony without being attacked. The species might not understand why the ant colony doesn't attack them, and they might not understand how it is helpful to give off the pheromones. But they don't need to - they're not ants, so they don't need to understand what causes the ants' behaviour. All that's relevant for them is that it means the ants don't attack them, so it increases their chances of survival, so natural selection favours the members of the species that are best able to mimic the ants, and the features become more dominant in the species until it's a core part of their biology. In the same way, demons evolved the ability to speak the human language. Like we see from the girl demon in this episode, they might not understand what all the words mean, and they might not understand human social structures. But they don't always need to. All they need to understand is that humans react to the words, and those reactions are something that they can take advantage of. Natural selection takes over. Going back to the ants example, a human observer might know that the species that is trying to mimic the ants is not an ant, will never be an ant, and has behaviour and motives that are fundamentally different from those of an ant. It only exhibits ant-like traits in order to take advantage of the ants' blind spot. The ants don't stand to gain anything by welcoming the invader. But the ants don't recognise that, and so they continue to allow the mimic species to infiltrate. In the same way, Frieren recognises that demons are not humans and will never be humans, and that the only reason they seem human-like is because they have evolved these features in order to more easily prey on humans. And the main reason she is cognizant of this is because of Flamme's teachings and her centuries of experience with demons. But to the average human, they don't recognise this. They see that the demons appear to have some similarities to humans and reason that they should be similar in other ways too, without understanding that they are actually different on a fundamental level. That's what makes it so insidious - it's difficult for a human to set aside their desire to socialise and understand other human-like species when they aren't thinking about how the process of evolution has led to demons.
Trencha
2024-03-29 16:53:38 +0000 UTCAnimals are neutral by nature. Demons are evil by nature. Demons are not animals. The point to make is that unlike humans, who can become good, neutral or evil, other species can be always X by nature. It depends on the setting. I see how you interpreted wrong, though, I will edit my comment.
Arakis
2024-03-29 16:45:24 +0000 UTCSo, you agree that animals are neutral because they only follow their instincts, and then equate demons to intelligent carnivorous animals. However in this case the animals are apparently "evil by nature" as opposed to neutral. How does that work?
ODIS
2024-03-29 16:42:10 +0000 UTCThey’re individual foils. These specific demons are literally mirrors of our heroes but without the humanity and social interactions that make Frieren, Fern, and Stark who they are, even though you wouldn’t consider the women especially people who are particularly caring or social from the outside. This is much more apparent in the next few episodes obviously, but this arc serves to highlight that very slight difference between them and demons. Using the demons as just animals with a killing tool (speech) serves that purpose too. I also think it’s a neat bit of world building but I realize that’s mostly because I haven’t seen it that black and white in much else.
Sunny
2024-03-29 13:36:50 +0000 UTCWe've also never seen Frieren and Fern with any other non-short term companions. It could also be in part due to a lack of socialization.
7thdilemma
2024-03-29 08:57:13 +0000 UTCThe flashback with the demon child is definitely interesting. It's clear the way that the show presents them that we are meant to understand demons as something of a sophisticated predator. That said, you are not the first person that I've seen who after watching the flash back said something like, "It seems like she was trying though?" "In her mind was she not doing something that she thought was good?" It's a good question, however the reasoning we are shown is not that the demon was trying to right a wrong, or apologize for that matter. It says that it could feel their desire to kill it, and so this was how the demon thought it could relieve that desire. The action was concieved purely to create an outcome, without moral implication. Despite that, it does still imply that the demon was capable of understanding why they wanted to kill it, and that it's actions were the cause. But again, it offering the Chief's daughter highlights both it's ignorance of love based relationships and the moral implications of killing. I do think there could still be questions to ask with regard to what a demon could be brought to understand. But consider that the demon child thought it did understand the mother's feelings and took the action it thought made sense for survival. What would have happened if Himmel's party had not been there? Would living with the Chief and his daughter for as long as it did do anything for it's survival then? That might be a little beside the point, but I think perhaps the greatest hurdle is that if they truly lack all moral understanding, then there's no real way to know if a demon is capable of moral values without first teaching it what that means. Quite difficult if they are trying to kill you, and how could you ever know if it had not simply decided to try and appear to understand? And even if it was genuine, imagine what could go wrong should it misunderstand. I like your thought at the end though about if you only see fakes, does a real one even exist, and if all you see are bad demons, do good demons exist? Or perhaps can they exist?
7thdilemma
2024-03-29 08:10:27 +0000 UTCAura regained her power 28 years ago = 28 years ago Aura heard that Himmel died and she came out of hiding. Your initial feelings about demons were wrong, like pretty much 95% of reactors out there. You are too used to modern Hollywood movies and anime wanting to "subvert expectations" and "we're not so different after all" and "humans are the real monsters". They all stem from a trend to consider everything and everyone the same, and that it's all social constructionism with 0 effect from nature. An low Intelligence animal is intrinsically neutral and that can't change. It acts by instinct and our only reference on whether some of its actions are "good" or "bad" is how said action affects us, the human. On the contrary, a human is born neutral but can change because he has the intelligence to understand ethics and morality. He can become good or evil, as much as "good" and "evil" are a universal state that exists outside human society. Demons, as depicted in this setting, are either (1) evil by nature (I don't really believe it so) i.e. they adhere to the universal outer "evilness" that exists in the moral layers of creation or, more likely (2) neutral and devoid of morality but anti-human by nature. Just like a parrot or a myna bird can learn to say "Good morning", or a dolphin wave when they see their favourite trainer, a demon could perform a ""good action"" but only as a mimicry and not because they want to do "good". Their whole existence revolves around eating humans, as Frieren and Flamme suggest, meaning that they are ticking bombs at best, rampaging calamities at worst. Sometimes, evil is just evil and there is no misunderstanding or abusive childhood. There are too many anti-heroes replacing actual villains.
Arakis
2024-03-29 08:09:46 +0000 UTCIt is fascinating that after a bunch of shows that 'humanize' the concept of demons, many people align with it. I could have sworn demon means demon.
Gir
2024-03-29 06:37:39 +0000 UTCThe case of the demons is fascinating for me because it creates so much discourse despite it's being much more simple than it seems. They're animals that's it. Like many stories of people rescuing wild animals such as hippos or bears and raising them with care for years only for them to one day get attacked by them or worse it's not about good or evil it's just a fundamental difference in the way species interact. Is it possible to teach a Demon the ways of humanity? Probably but there's a reason domesticated Wolves aren't still Wolves today they've been selectively bred and tampered with over and over to become dogs which are more "suitable" for humans.
Jade
2024-03-29 06:19:50 +0000 UTCI think subversion may have been the incorrect term to describe this situation. I was more commenting on the meta of demons in literature and how they've traditionally been portrayed as outright evil, so much so that this facet became a troupe. Then the troupe was subverted by more nuanced discussions about evil and malice, and how that's reflected in the human condition. This has been the case in many/if not all of the iterations I've encountered in modern storytelling. Now here in Frieren, the troupe has come full circle in how it's applied. I'm all for exploring how Frieren would interact with a demon that subverts a subversion that has already been applied within the narrative, but I'm also not against just keeping demons as uniquivocally opposed to our heroes.
Alter Nate
2024-03-29 04:44:28 +0000 UTCThe way I see the demons (could be a coincidence but I don’t think it is) is basically a species and antagonists of a very negative version of Frieren and how she views relationships. Demons are what the people complaining on how Frieren isn’t looking sad at Himmel’s funeral. I also like that they are predators against humanoids if whales could talk to us and wanted to eat us I’m sure they’d try some trickery they’re very smart.
Andres Lozano
2024-03-29 04:42:12 +0000 UTCSeems like subversion for its own sake to me. The sort of thing people complained about with the new Star Wars trilogy. -Subversion can be dramatic, but there is no real tension. The demons make it clear to the audience that they are evil, and no characters we care about actually believe the demons. -Subversion can be meaningful. Is Freiren trying to say 'some people are just pure evil and you shouldn't give bad people second chances'? Seems unlikely. Is it trying to say 'lions will eat your face'? Not really revolutionary. -Subversion can be funny. You said it was funny, but I don't think it's haha funny. The show doesn't use the subversion as an opportunity to tell any jokes. Despite the overpowered MC, this show isn't OPM. I think the show also loses something with this subversion. 'The demons real people too' is a troupe because that is true to life. Most people in modern society aren't fighting lions. Man vs nature is so last century. Man vs man, so hot right now. Honestly, you can say 'I thought it was funny' and destroy my whole argument. Maybe I'm just a hater.
Jasper Wilson
2024-03-29 03:49:02 +0000 UTCYeah even if they lack empathy it might be possible to make a logical deal. They seem to have survival instict at any rate which gives something to work with. The main question is why they kill. If killing is just an innate nature that is difficult. But if there is some logical reason they kill like for resources, there might be negotiation options.
Sage
2024-03-29 03:00:43 +0000 UTCLions capable of society ending magic is probably not something I'd look at in a friendly way either 😂
Alex G
2024-03-29 02:45:26 +0000 UTCIn my opinion, I like how this show handles “demons.” It’s funny, at this point in a lot of literature it’s become kind of a troupe that demons are misunderstood, or nuanced creatures. That they’re like us but just a bit different. I like how here, they’re objectively opposed to humanity. It’s refreshing to see, while also a bit funny that this is now probably seen as a subversion rather than the norm. With regards to the demons, I think it becomes tricky because their appearance and speech can sometimes even work in fooling the audience into thinking that they’re more than meets the eye. However, they’re more akin to a lion or some other beast than human. One of the demons’ skillset however is the ability to speak rather than having large teeth or a large build to hunt with. Demons are predators in this iteration, and I like that Frieren treats them as such.
Alter Nate
2024-03-29 02:43:48 +0000 UTCYea I think we're being led along to agree with Frieren about the nature of demons but there are some obvious contradictions. It's very clear that they are communicating with humans beyond just imitation of speech, for example, even if deception is still the primary reason. It could be translation issues with their definition of "communication", or it could be leaving breadcrumbs to be explored later. It could also just be an anime confusing us with demons using human speech with eachother in private, instead of giving us a demon language.
Rekway
2024-03-29 02:35:32 +0000 UTCBam! Translation time! Graf Granat translates to 'Count Garnet', a reference to how he's a rich man, I suppose (not really sure on that one). The demon Lügner translates to 'liar'. I'll just let that one explain itself.
Josh Bowers
2024-03-29 01:50:22 +0000 UTCAnother friend and I said the same thing about this scene when the episode came out lol
Sage
2024-03-29 01:42:27 +0000 UTCWoooo I've been waiting for this little arc, it's SO good
Sunny
2024-03-29 01:42:05 +0000 UTCThat "Oh, so they're like pandas" caught me totally off guard.
Josh Bowers
2024-03-29 01:41:16 +0000 UTCStark brought it up this episode, but I always found it strange/unique how Fern uses the honorific "sama" for most everybody. If I had to guess, she probably doesn't think too highly of herself in relation to others due to her background as a war orphan. I think it's an interesting personality trait.
Josh Bowers
2024-03-29 01:39:31 +0000 UTCThe demon question is tricky. They are capable of communicating and reason it seems. But can you negotiate with creatures with no social instincts in their evolution? Idk. Another thought is I wonder if there is a bit of a parallel with elves and demons they are trying to form, since this episode began with Frieren saying elves don't have romantic inclinations. That said Frieren seems to be a very social creature unlike the demons capable of at least strong platonic bonds. Even if there is a bit of distance to her personality.
Sage
2024-03-29 01:32:29 +0000 UTCdemons = bad
bl0odm1st
2024-03-29 01:26:43 +0000 UTCLugner's VA plays Sukuna (love his voice)
Pulp
2024-03-29 01:18:55 +0000 UTCWake up babe, new Goodwin Frieren reaction just dropped
Jasmine Tea Enjoyer
2024-03-29 01:06:18 +0000 UTC
