May December with Megan Burbank
Added 2024-02-01 05:27:16 +0000 UTCSince the beginning of time*, listeners have been asking for us to talk about Mary Kay Letourneau. And since the beginning of time, I have not quite known how to approach the topic. This podcast loves unfairly maligned women--it has no choice, because I love them--but Mary Kay Letourneau, when I looked into her story as a potential topic, always struck me as that rarest of characters: a fairly maligned woman. Maybe even an unfairly unmaligned one, if you get right down to it. And, now, finally--using a new movie as an excuse for our January bonus--Seattle journalist Megan Burbank and I are getting right down do it.
This is a story about rape, about the sexual abuse of children, about grooming--the real kind, not the homophobic GOP fantasy kind--and about crimes it's hard to find the right language to discuss. Listen with care, and please know we care for you.
One thing we didn't get into in this episode, and that I wish we had: reached for comment by the Hollywood Reporter soon after this movie's release, Mary Kay Letourneau's victim and eventual husband, Vili Fualaau, said: “I’m still alive and well. If they had reached out to me, we could have worked together on a masterpiece. Instead, they chose to do a ripoff of my original story...I’m offended by the entire project and the lack of respect given to me — who lived through a real story and is still living it." The ethics of a biopic--even one that calls its characters by other names but only calls one tabloid story to mind--are especially important to discuss now that the proliferation of media and social media seems to make the content mill grow bigger by the day. I don't have any answers for these questions. But Megan and I would love to know what you think.
*May 2018
Comments
I don’t know if anyone will see this but we (my friend group, family, town, etc.) have just discovered an EX-friend of ours has groomed and been charged with sexual assault of a minor. She was a teacher. He was NOT a student of hers but the age of her students. I’ve spent the past month struggling to even wrap my mind around any of it. I don’t want to understand why she did that or what she was thinking but this back and forth has really helped me see things from a perspective I just hadn’t been able to think about. Sarah you are the best. ❤️
Cal
2024-04-30 14:58:13 +0000 UTCI really really would love a follow up speaking to this, I thought the exact same thing the whole time I was listening to this.
Payne Gibson
2024-04-01 20:03:28 +0000 UTCHi Sarah, wondering if you’ll watch/talk about Late Night with the Devil
Emma
2024-03-31 22:27:31 +0000 UTCJust like the movie itself, I'll have to wait for the right time to listen to this as someone who was groomed into a monstrous 3-year relationship with my high school teacher, but just wanted to say I'm really grateful for your coverage of this- I am confident (knowing your work) it will be handled thoughtfully. Educator abuse is much more prevalent than anyone would like to admit, and I encourage people (especially parents) to look up our case (Babylon High School) to learn more and equip their families proactively.
Brittany Rohl
2024-03-29 22:56:09 +0000 UTCthat conversation at the end really spoke to me, as someone who realised how important it is to set boundaries with my dissertation research because the void sort of did stare back and it did teach me a lot about how I approach my work and actually realise the complexity of everything, and that I’m not totally immune to it. Feeling very seen thank you Sarah and Megan
Bethan MacSween
2024-03-01 18:19:48 +0000 UTCI love BKR! (And would be so excited if there would be a collaboration! You're kind rewind... Be wrong about... Be wrong rewind?)
AlettaSchuurman
2024-03-01 14:50:38 +0000 UTCHas YWA left Patreon? The 2/20 ep. is on Apple Podcasts but not here.
Obilot
2024-02-27 20:39:03 +0000 UTCI wish there had been discussion regarding Vili Fualaau’s reports that he was not consulted about this movie and has expressed negative feelings about it.
Mei-Ling MB
2024-02-25 17:54:43 +0000 UTCYesss pleaseee!
AlettaSchuurman
2024-02-22 10:49:54 +0000 UTCCo-sign!
Bridget Sweetin
2024-02-20 01:03:08 +0000 UTCWild I just asked about this too! Should have looked through the comments first!
Bridget Sweetin
2024-02-20 01:02:55 +0000 UTCOk random thought…I’m digging into the YWA back catalog and loving it. Would yall ever pick up the OJ thread again? Those episodes are fascinating!
Bridget Sweetin
2024-02-20 01:02:11 +0000 UTCEpisode Suggestion An episode on what I guess could be called 'linguistic gentrification', focused on how certain words have become co-opted by political groups and ideologies (and later most of society). Eg 'Woke' and 'Triggered'. I'm fascinated by the fact that 'Woke' is now essentially without an agreed upon definition so is kind of meaningless, but where and how it shows up gives it contextual meaning. (also isn't it basically just the PC panic again?) Whereas with 'triggered' it's interesting how it might be an exception? Because it's co-opted meaning became 'untrendy' in certain ways and now we're sort of able to use it in it's original meaning again without it being a signifier to people that 'this is a dumb lib'. I also wanna know how we can potentially reclaim words and what the best techniques are as a society to do so.
Michael Waite
2024-02-18 16:52:25 +0000 UTCI can SORT OF understand the argument if it's a person that's 16-17. "Different people mature at different paces! 18 isn't a magic number!" I agree. I still think we MUCH better err on the side of CAUTION, but in reality sure. Some 16 year olds MIGHT be just as "mature" as some 18-19 year olds. Whatever that means... Can I agree that 18 specifically seems a bit arbitrary? Sure. But TWELVE??? That's INDESPUTABLY a LITTLE BOY.
Ronin Fredricson
2024-02-16 20:57:07 +0000 UTCWould be good to hear about this with a bit more of the backstory behind it! (As a gen-Z non-American listening at work I've not heard of this before)
jasmine hale
2024-02-15 02:39:09 +0000 UTCYou should do an episode with Izzy from Be Kind Rewind on YouTube! She is a thoughtful and intelligent voice on women in film and the film industry and discusses a lot of the same themes you do.
Ivy
2024-02-15 01:17:44 +0000 UTCIs there a chance we will get another installment of the O.J. series? I’m listening to it now and just heard the Bronco “chase” episode. I know Mike is gone but there’s nobody I would rather have walk me through the trial but Sarah. I’m even reading Marcia Clark’s book but don’t want to get ahead of my listening! This series has been incredibly informative for this 90s kid and I’m longing for a resolution.
Laura Williams-Burke
2024-02-14 20:06:48 +0000 UTCUhhh top NW stories...? You forgot the Green River Killer.
Carey Mellott
2024-02-08 21:43:29 +0000 UTCOmg we NEED a You Are Good episode on crossroads!
Siera King
2024-02-07 22:23:20 +0000 UTCRecently I found out my old high school gym teacher raped a 14 year old girl. She (the teacher) was white, conventionally attractive and young at the time the “relationship” took place. I was so perplexed but this episode helped me understand her motivations better. I also understand that it’s really fucked up that I wouldn’t even think about it that much if the genders were reversed.
Octopus
2024-02-07 14:26:54 +0000 UTCunrelated but yall should make some merch with the phrase “unfairly maligned woman” i would soooo buy that like are u kidding
em
2024-02-06 23:19:14 +0000 UTChad to turn it off notes on a scandal when the relationship became sexual bc the way the white witnesses were talking about vili was so gross and uncomfortable and the music they played made it seem like a fictional/seductive vibe rather than pedophilia taking place
Talia
2024-02-04 22:23:14 +0000 UTCGreat stuff! I’d love to hear a perspective of this (main feed edit?) where y’all talk about what happened more. I never heard about this growing up so it was kind of confusing to listen to it unfold out of order like this. Maybe a timeline and breakdown of who the people actually are? But I probably should have watched the movie I guess 😂
Hanna Paulson
2024-02-04 19:07:03 +0000 UTCFrom the discussion on how situations like this (adult female to male child) are presented in the media…I do think it’s getting better. Most recent stories I found from my state stayed in local media. The stories used correct terms and clearly stated the student as the victim.
Jenny Drozd
2024-02-04 18:00:24 +0000 UTCThat interview is CHILLING. You feel like he absolutely felt victimized by her and knows she was wrong but feels he can’t say it still.
Kelly Stiver
2024-02-03 18:35:17 +0000 UTCI was also wondering this. I thought the bechdel cast critique was extra harsh and maybe this critique was extra forgiving. I was thinking about why I felt that way and realized maybe I'll never be satisfied with how people talk about this movie or this topic, because it's all so uncomfortable. But as long as we are talking about it and keep doing so, that's a huge improvement.
Sarah S
2024-02-03 17:29:17 +0000 UTCHighly recommend the book Tampa by Alissa Nutting for an exploration of abusive power dynamics in a gender-swapped Lolita tale. Brilliant and so difficult to read
Sarah A
2024-02-02 18:19:05 +0000 UTCLong shot but if anyone sees this and is in the bay area we have 2 spare tickets to the YWA show tonight (friends had to bow out due to pet health concerns)
Diana Shanahan
2024-02-02 17:31:00 +0000 UTCGreat episode
Carmen Resler
2024-02-02 03:59:12 +0000 UTCI feel like it's weird that no review has pointed out the "personality disorder" line... because it's like they took the symptoms of borderline and plugged it into AI and out popped Gracie.
Cheyenne Picardo
2024-02-02 03:10:44 +0000 UTCAgree. One moment that really got to me in the movie was Gracie referring to Joe as Korean and he responds very quietly "half. I'm half Korean". To me that was another scene demonstrating her total disregard for him as a full person with agency. He was and is a Korean kid to her.
KC
2024-02-02 00:57:56 +0000 UTCThanks for making me reevaluate and appreciate this movie. I wasn’t into the angle they took to jump ahead into their story but now I see how it’s just as important. Love it
Erin Sian Williams
2024-02-02 00:52:14 +0000 UTCThis was a fantastic episode
Ben Love
2024-02-02 00:41:08 +0000 UTCSarah, I love how good you are at helping people see things differently w/out being angry or judgmental ❤️
Jessica Feeney
2024-02-01 22:32:58 +0000 UTCThere’s a scene in the movie that is dialogue directly lifted from a MKL interview right before she died - “who had the power?” Conversation. It was wild to watch the movie and then that interview.
Bridget Sweetin
2024-02-01 22:21:27 +0000 UTC10000% agree!! I started watching it without any context and was appalled!
Bridget Sweetin
2024-02-01 22:19:26 +0000 UTCThank you for making Villi Fulau the victim in this story. I have believed (for a long time) that Ms Letourneau was a predator-rapist-abuser, and that the system really let the Fulaus' down. This was a nuanced and enlightening conversation about the case that needs to happen more often in the public discourse.
Vanessa Lucio
2024-02-01 20:47:19 +0000 UTCI loved May December and I loved this episode! Per Joel Kim Booster - Many of the worst people you know reacting to May December’s comedy nod like they are the only ones who were smart enough to laugh at this film. The laughs were intentional! You aren’t smarter than Todd Haynes, sweetie! Now let’s all watch Safe tonight in honor of TH 🕯️
breanne
2024-02-01 20:20:58 +0000 UTCthe amount of nodding and non verbal agreement going on w me rn
Bjork surfin the net
2024-02-01 19:47:33 +0000 UTCMary Kay’s father was a special kind of evil. Behind the Bastards recently did an episode on him and Orange County, with Brockton’s own favorite podcaster as a guest. Highly recommend
Jamie Madden
2024-02-01 19:18:16 +0000 UTCInteresting back story is that mkl's dad was some John birch society asshole who was having an affair with a former student with whom he secretly fathered two children and when she was about 12, she was supposed to be watching her little brother when he drowned in their pool. It's A LOT to unpack.
Megen porter
2024-02-01 19:10:05 +0000 UTCCharles Melton was definitely snubbed for a best supporting actor Oscar nom
Emily Dowie
2024-02-01 18:19:06 +0000 UTCAlso, I think the answer to the question "What is Crossroads about?" is an interesting generational marker. If you answer "Britney Spears goes on a cross-country roadtrip with friends," you're likely a Millenial. If you answer "The Karate Kid tries to sell his soul to the Devil to become a better guitarist," you're probably a Gen Xer.
beesher
2024-02-01 16:31:54 +0000 UTCI decided to pause, watch the movie, and come back :) the music felt very weird and forced
alli moulton
2024-02-01 16:01:09 +0000 UTCAlso- there’s a South Park episode that sort of names the problem with how we treat male victims. As the kids try to report the teacher, all the male adults respond “nice” when they find out it’s a male child and female teacher
Laura Patterson
2024-02-01 15:39:23 +0000 UTCI’m so glad to listen to this. I’ve been processing that my grandmother eloped at 15 with an older man against the wishes of her father, who had threatened to shoot him if he didn’t leave her alone. My grandmother was not a pleasant woman and it was only recently that I started framing that part of her life as assault with my family and asking about how trauma was at work in her life. Because it was the 40’s in the rural south we had always just talked about it as “well back then it wasn’t odd.” But as Sarah says, we can do fucked up things as a culture!
Laura Patterson
2024-02-01 15:38:06 +0000 UTCI think an opportunity was also missed, along with not acknowledging that Vili Fualaau was not consulted about the film, in not discussing the insidious decision for these two white women to violate a brown child/man. I think there is much more to the Natalie Portman character than just an actress getting lost in “method acting” or “staring into the void”. That character was depicted as making a choice to continue the violation of an abused Asian character because she knew there would be no pushback or repercussions because of her privilege. Just like Moore’s character did. You touched on how brown and black children are perceived to be older and therefore allowed to be sexualized at earlier ages than their white counterparts, especially with regards to the Letourneau parts, but I don’t think that point was connected well back to Portman’s character. Especially in the scene where Portman says “that’s what adults do” clearly showing the audience that the Melton character is still psychologically stunted at that age when his abuse started, even though he is “technically” an adult. Portman’s character essentially did the exact same thing that Julianne Moore’s character did. She used the Charles Melton character to get what she wanted for her “method acting”, and then discarded him after not giving a second thought to his mental or emotional state due to her own selfish motives and her privilege in being a white woman. I really think you missed an opportunity to get a more nuanced view point on the film by not including a voice from a brown or black contributor.
Andrea Sinha
2024-02-01 15:36:52 +0000 UTCI am still upset that Netflix catfished me with this movie. The preview of a very intimate moment between Julianne Moore and Natalie Portman for a Todd Haynes movie called May December had me thinking my sapphic dreams were coming true.
Acacia
2024-02-01 14:58:40 +0000 UTCAs an aside from the actual episode's content, some of the other Patreon creators I follow are able to offer bonus podcasts directly into my Spotify feed now (MP After Dark and If Books Could Kill Mile High Club). I'm not seeing that for YWA yet. Is that an option we will eventually get?
Katie
2024-02-01 14:18:11 +0000 UTCThe movie very much is a biopic that’s also about biopics — the parasitic nature of working to embody another living person, the vanity that can come into making even low-quality made-for-TV movies. So much of Haynes’ work is about performance — people as Barbies in Superstar, six actors as Bob Dylan in I’m Not There, a celebrity faking his death in Velvet Goldmine
Magda
2024-02-01 14:02:39 +0000 UTCI do wish yall had discussed the fact that Vili Fualaau wasn’t consulted about the film. May December is this cyclical story about the exploitation of him by Letourneau, the media, and then this TV movie. It plays on our sympathy for him while doing the very thing it’s condemning.
Sarah
2024-02-01 13:55:40 +0000 UTCHave you and Jamie Loftus discussed this film at all? Curious because I listened to the Bechdel Cast’s very different take on the movie. :)
Chloe Dubisch
2024-02-01 13:18:27 +0000 UTCI recently watched May December (after seeing Be Kind Rewind's great video on Julianne Moore and Todd Haynes), so the timing on this is perfect! I have been curious about the real world stories that inspired it. Thank you!
beesher
2024-02-01 13:14:11 +0000 UTCI was in high school when the entire country was using a 12yr old sexual abuse victim as a punchline. I refuse to watch this movie, because I've seen enough media about it for my lifetime but I'm happy to listen to someone else talk about it!
Caren HereForTheCats Ray
2024-02-01 11:54:53 +0000 UTCAs a 90s kid who also grew up in Grays Harbor, I feel so seen by the beginning discussion in this episode. It hadn't even occurred to me that this scandal was such a constant and huge story because it happened where I grew up--that background sense of 'we have constant seasonal depression so weird stuff just happens here' is such a PNW vibe it goes unquestioned.
Toni Travis
2024-02-01 10:27:09 +0000 UTCI wish y'all had been able to get to the fact that Villi feels disrespected by the movie, because that's so at odds with y'all's closing thoughts about how you were glad he was finally getting the voice he deserves. I would love to know how you both reconcile that and how that fits in with like the psychology of being victimized.
Ellen Shank
2024-02-01 06:45:58 +0000 UTCI'm looking forward to an tiny topsy-turvy wrong about
Ellen
2024-02-01 06:14:57 +0000 UTCI think it depends on what you prefer! If you don't feel like watching it I think the episode will be fun, and if you do then it will complement it, I think
You're Wrong About
2024-02-01 06:06:43 +0000 UTCOh my goodness I cannot wait to listen to this. Would you recommend we watch May December first?
Stephanie Fornasier
2024-02-01 05:33:53 +0000 UTC
