Fugitive of the Judoon, Gallifrey Gals Get Wibbly Wobbly! S12Ep5

It’s so interesting to read this discussion now halfway through Ncuti’s first season with RTD doubling down on the timeless child with not just the Doctor as an abandoned child, taken advantage of, a refugee of genocide, but with the companion an abandoned child, too. —and both of them, the Doctor and Ruby, being somehow special, mysterious.

Joe Cleveland

BS to you, not to me.

mark saunders

I never said I thought RTD will go out of his way to specifically retcon everything away, Mark. What I think he'll do is just do what I have done...which is to ignore it and continue with the show like it never happened, sticking with what had been in the show for the 50-some-odd years before. It would be petty to go down the list of things a previous showrunner did and go "Woops! These events fell through a crack in time and no longer happened!" ....oh wait, that's what Moffat did to RTD! Yup, RTD's not as petty as Moffat.

Scribbles

Nah, it's a bullshit arc that tries to imply that the Doctor and nobody else brought regeneration to the Time Lords. Some godlike being from beyond the known universe bestowing regeneration on a species. BS, total BS.

Scribbles

He may not specifically retcon it, but he will ignore it and just keep going like it never happened.

Scribbles

The timeless child arc is not a chosen one arc. Their decisions are still what they've always been. The Timeless child arc is more of a refugee/ amnesia arc more than anything, being lost and transported to this universe, experimented on and forced to work with Division, and constantly mind wiped. After all those mind wipes they've still retained everything that makes the Doctor the Doctor. None of their decisions and choices are faulted because of it. It gives the Doctor a new layer of mystery as they have a past history that's been erased from them.

Larry Viscarra

CC didn't lose anything and the reason RTD is coming back is because CC is leaving. He wasn't fired which seems to be what you're implying and if you think RTD is going to retcon any of this then you're going to be seriously disappointed.

mark saunders

And with that positive bang ... the show went downhill to the biggest *** yet No serious, i ordered ther Fugetive Doctor series right when it was anounced, because when she stands next to the console, Ruth clicks on the spot, thats the Doctor no doubt. The set up was cool and it was executed well... it could have been great, like the planed series for 1990 ...but no.... Sadly at this point, C.C lost it completly. There is a reason RTD is coming back and there is a reason BBC gave him unlimited controll of the show

Thomas88

Although I like the Chibnall Era and I like the setup with the Ruth Doctor, I don't like the end result. Spoilers ahead!!! The Doctor being the timeless child is a neat idea, but it takes away something I feel is very special about the Doctor. The Doctor has never been the chosen one. He always was just a mad man with a box, who at one point made a choice. Predestination and the chosen one trope takes a little away from the agency the Doctor has, because it was always meant to be this way and never really was his choice in the first place. To put things short, I don't like giving the chosen one trope to the Doctor. The Doctor should have always remained nothing special except for the choice he/she had made.

Red Claw

The division was an official entity in Gallifrey at the point in the timeline when Gat was from, though. They handed out service medals. It's not hard to believe there would be Gallifrian laws against desertion.

Eytan

Gat was there because Doctor Ruth (HA!) tried to leave The Division, not for Gallifrey.

Bill

The collapse begins. Ruth is great and her Doctor is... great for now (no spoilers). No problem there. This was a great episode that opened up lots of loose threads that could go somewhere.

Bill

I once heard Collin Baker say, "Never let strict adherence to canon get in the way of a good plot point." And lets face it, Doctor Who often sacrificed internal consistency even back in classic era.

Mark Ten

Ruth' referring to her Tardis as a ship is a great touch since Peter Capaldi made a big deal of the first Doctor "Still calling it a ship." It being in the shape of a Police Box with the original interior is also a great detail and adds to the mystery. And I did love Gat's horror at seeing 2 versions of the same Time Lord at the same time. Thats very classic.

Mark Ten

I didn't get a sense that they cared for money, they cared about their contract. And Ruth/The Doctor was clearly guilty of something back in Gallifray, since Gat represented the authorities.

Eytan

This episode is my favourite of the season. It works both as a really great mystery on its own merits, and it sets up really intriguing threads. I was *so* excited after seeing it for the first time, and couldn't wait for the rest of the series. And it so happens that I really didn't like the way the rest of the series followed up on most of those threads. But that's not the episode's fault. It's still excellent.

Eytan

what I didn't like about this episode is that it completely missed the point of the Judoon. they are police for hire, they will enforce the law for you for a price, but the target have to actually be guilty of something and they won't break the law to fulfill their contract. while this description is mentioned in this episode, it is basically just lip service, in every other way the Judoon here were just regular bounty hunters, who cared only for money.

tal goren

in "a good man goes to war" it was strongly implied that if pregnant Amy wouldn't have fallen into the hands of the silence, her baby wouldn't have been a time lord. River existence required a lot of future science, not just "sex in the Tardis"

tal goren

Ben so excited for this reaction. Love this story and it's not even my favourite from this series. So close to the finish line now.

Jade Ellis

FINALLY!! So happy with your reaction Paula and well done as usual Kat. This was a fantastic episode, I watched it on repeat when it first aired. Us crazy fans went through so many theories after this episode, reading so so much into every single thing that happened, e.g Ruth was 44, so does that number mean anything, gloucester must mean something, OG Tardis 😜😜 Also, Paula remembering Martha's episode being the Judoon one, recognising Jack, lol, such a gallifrey gal!! Love this episode. Just to add, VINAY PATEL (+ Chibs) 😜 p.s. We rarely got to see so much serious contemplative Doctor from Jodie in the previous season, this was great to see! Ruth was also so fab P.s. the musical score, the strings etc, really elevated the episode too

Sufyaan Kazi

If you think RTD is going to retcon this, then you're going to be extremely disappointed as he's already made it known that he loves what Chibnall has done.

mark saunders

Please, please, call her Giuseppe. 😁

Firefly24601

Without saying too much, I too, really do not like what they did here. That is what destroyed both of the seasons for me. I wanted to like them when I started with it, but I can't. I'm curious what RTD is going to to with that, I havent seen anything beyond the season yet.

DO NOT WATCH any videos about the current era of Who. Please. There are many reasons to be thankfull for the Gal's reactions, but I've been most thankful as a reliable positive space for Doctor Who during the Chibnall era. The videos on YouTube are not terribly constructive, and even hunting for good analysis leads to more suggestions from the unhelpful takes. Though if you do watch a grump critic read too much into Jodie's Doctor do remember the old playground saw: "Well I know what you are, but would you mind making a video more about Doctor Who next time."

Funny That

Especially calling the extremely talented actress that played "Ruth" a creature, dehumanizing her (De-Galifreyanizing?) just because you didn't like the choice of plot. She does an amazing job as the Doctor. Also that child born in the Tardis and being affected by the energy led to River Song and no one should disrespect her ;) PS She wasn't a Time Lord, she was essentially human, but because of the proximity to the heart during her gestation was infused with the energy allowing her a variation on the Regeneration but in every other way she wasn't time lord (Pretty sure she also only had one heart as well.) Again, just because you didn't like it doesn't mean it was bad... it just means it wasn't what you personally prefer. That's cool but don't dump your negativity on people who are having a good time.

FalcorDragon

Why do you feel the need to dump on something and potentially ruin the fun of people who actually did enjoy it. :( If you think about it, Doctor Who is constantly adding to the mythology as they go along, sometimes behind the scenes, sometimes in blatant revelations, but it's never just been static... If you don't like it, of course, that's perfectly ok, and understandable, but that's your opinion and just spreading negativity, especially in a situation where one of the reactors has no idea what's coming, so potentially poisoning or otherwise seeming to be attempting to ruin it for her instead of just letting her come to her own conclusions. I have seen every episode of Doctor Who old and new and what's coming up pleasantly surprised me, I had some issues with some of it, but I was fascinated at the new potential and the journey ahead. They've asked before that the nastiness be kept off the discord and comment sections, it's sad when people can't respect them enough to do that even without them having to ask. :(

FalcorDragon

Ive been looking forward to seeing Freddy's... I mean, Paula's reaction for weeks - did not disappoint

Mark Ten

Fun fact about this episode, it aired two days after the 44th anniversary of The Brain of Morbius Part 4, which is the 4th Doctor story you guys reacted to a while ago, and was actually referenced in this episode with Ruth’s birthday being her 44th. Something happened in The Brain of Morbius Part 4 that has huge relevance to what was revealed in this episode (Fugitive of the Judoon) with the Fugitive Doctor, and what is to come. Saying no more🤐

The Adopted Whovian

And here's the point where Series 12 no longer exists for me. Okay, yes, I love certain parts of the show's lore that's been tweaked, such as the Time War. HOWEVER, the reason the Time War works is because RTD was smart enough to set his universe-changing event in a part of the timeline where there was no official word on what happened. It was set in a part of the Doctor's time *after* the Classic show had been cancelled, and therefore wasn't trying to negate anything that had already been established. The crap that has to do with this "Ruth" creature, and all the dumb crap Moffat tried to add to the canon to tweak the lore (like "Two humans + Sex in a TARDIS = Time Lord", stupid garbage like that), is *not* the kind of clever, seamless adding to the story that RTD did so well. It's about as subtle and ham-fisted as a sledgehammer to the face, and I hate it.

Scribbles

So Freddy's assumed a new identity and the episode title is classified? Deep State stuff here! So did Paula go under the Chameleon Arch to become Freddy? Vice versa? How interesting that this came out now considering what happened in this episode - cant convince me its a coincidence.

Mark Ten

I've been so excited for this episode! Love it! Besides the obvious stuff, I love Ryan's pep talk he gives to 13. Seeing how much his experience with his father and his improving bond with Graham informs how he approaches certain things now.

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