Space Seed, Gallifrey Gals Get Warped! TOS edition
Added 2022-07-05 17:01:01 +0000 UTCWe cant believe we finished season 5 of TNG! Let's get warped today with some classic TOS! Patrons voted and Space Seed won the poll for our next TOS reaction.
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PAULA DEMING
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KATRINA ALYSHA
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Comments
I’ve really never understood the appeal of this episode. For me it’s just varying degrees of ick.
emma_universe
2024-01-12 00:13:42 +0000 UTCI'm not a big TOS person. I came in to the franchise with TNG. I've gone back and seen the odd episode here and there, generally the ones that are the top ranked ones and are likely to come up here, but I've probably only seen each one once all the way through. While I remember the overall plot of the episode, I do not remember the specifics of how the plot progresses. I probably would've voted for this one to be seen, not remembering the issues with it, more because of where it sits in the franchise, and how a number of people have mentioned it fits in with Star Trek II.
AJ
2022-07-12 07:42:12 +0000 UTCIt was a while since I had watched this episode. I had forgotten the amount and the degree of sexism that it had shown, even for its time. It WAS made over 55 years ago, and many, many things have changed culturally since then, but still... For me, it was the connections this had to future episodes... So for example the episode in season One, The Neutral Zone, involved frozen people from the earth is found, and their reintegration, or issues in doing so. Also, there is (minor spoiler) a connection between this episode to one of the movies that were made. I think it may have been chosen to give background for when you watch them. However, there is a positive to take from this episode as well! Something like this would NEVER play over TV now, because of the progress we have made as humankind in some ways (and are still), such as equality for the sexes. This show , shows us in stark contrast, how much progress we HAVE made so far. And that, is a good thing.
Matthew Berry
2022-07-12 03:28:31 +0000 UTCI did vote for this episode, but I had forgotten a lot of the details such as how oddly Macguiver's character is portrayed. I only watched it once many years ago. I just remembered the part where the bad guys took over the ship, and the cool fight at the end. At least it had some good action if nothing else. I would not have voted for it had I remembered the overt sexism in it.
Chrono Gamer
2022-07-12 00:05:24 +0000 UTCBones’ comment to Spock about well-meaning scientists and how science can be misused is worth mentioning. A modern example of science being used to achieve a eugenic goal (which I mentioned in another comment a while back) is the search for a prenatal test for autism. Society has arbitrarily decided an entire group of people (in this case, the autistic community) detracts from the human gene pool and is searching for a way to remove us from said gene pool. Just as we should encourage good science, we need to call out and defund science that is unethical, including, but not limited to, eugenics in any form.
Matthew Zeidman
2022-07-09 00:04:27 +0000 UTCThey dodged a bullet by making Khan a man of color. A Scandinavian would have gone down the road of a "master race," if not then, the years that followed.
Mark Chrisco
2022-07-08 16:07:46 +0000 UTCIn one of the drafts of this episode the character that became Khan was basically Thor…lol seriously at one point the character’s name was Ragnar Thorwald and he would have been a genetic superman from Scandinavia, basically a space Viking. I think the writers did a great job painting a narcissist manipulative maniac that uses his charisma and super intelligence to bend people to his will. Even Kirk and Co. minus Spock are charmed by him, not just McGivers. I think Kirk was still charmed by Khan at the end of the episode. That being said I total understand both your reactions to this episode, Khan’s manipulation of McGivers is an extremely accurate portrayal of an abusive relationship.
Rich Loga
2022-07-07 02:21:13 +0000 UTCLOL!!! This is one of the BEST episodes of any Trek. The reason its always on the top 10 is because it planted the seed for the most excellent "Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan" decades later. Khan is cemented in Trek lore as the greatest villain the Enterprise ever faced. Regarding the name 'Khan Noonian Singh', Roddenberry served with a man named 'Noonian Soong' in the military. He became good friends with him. Years later, he tried to find him unsuccessfully. He had the idea that if he named a character after the man, the guy would find HIM. Thats why he named the character 'Khan Noonian Signh'. Also, bear in mind, that each of us have individual tastes about every single thing in life. Its best illistrated at the conference table when the officers are discussing Khan.They conclude to a dissatisfied Spock that they don't have to like a thing to appreciate that thing. This episode is the embodiment of that, i think.
Sal Sanchez
2022-07-07 01:48:26 +0000 UTCNote: It was probably due to this episode that all future Starfleet bridge designs have multiple points of egress to make it harder for them to get trapped like rats. A much better design feature, but they did also add the exploding consoles so it probably evens out. The starship posting vacancies must get updated in real time.
Henchman Twenty1
2022-07-06 21:43:19 +0000 UTCI chose this one because among Star Trek fans Khan is pretty much Kirk's primary archnemesis. Ricardo Montalban is also a pretty awesome actor with more charisma than Shatner. I felt it was a necessary watch even if you didn't like it. I will admit I had completely forgotten about the McGuyver subplot, though. She shouldn't have gone with him, and frankly he should be furious that she betrayed him. I don't disagree with the decision to leave him on a planet, though. Although it wasn't explicitly said, I think Kirk had developed a small manner of respect for Khan, which is why he had placed Khan in a place that would serve as both his prison and his playground. A place where they can be who they are--conquerers--and not hurt anyone.
SuicuneSol
2022-07-06 21:36:56 +0000 UTCSame. While Ricardo gives a memorable performance overall the story is average at best. It did give us one of the best movies of the franchise, but if we're only doing limited TOS reactions I felt there were better options, but that is my opinion.
Henchman Twenty1
2022-07-06 21:34:14 +0000 UTCExactly what I was thinking. They don't even have plans to watch the movies.
Fritz
2022-07-06 15:12:33 +0000 UTCThe Trek nerds on here who recommend episodes really don't consider their audience. If you pay attention at all you'd know they wouldn't like this episode, but you're too busy thinking about the Kahn reveal that they have 0 context for.
Adam Brown
2022-07-06 05:47:35 +0000 UTCI also wondered why so many people chose this, especially if you have no plan to watch the movies. And also why so few people chose The Ultimate Computer
Pranav Gulukota
2022-07-06 05:32:16 +0000 UTCThat's the first time I've seen anyone react this strongly towards Khan. Space Seed is considered one of the top 10 episodes of TOS in most TOS Top 10 lists. lol
Chrissonator
2022-07-06 04:52:21 +0000 UTCAlso the names Noonien Soongh and Noonien Singh was picked by Gene because the name was based on that of Kim Noonien Singh, a pilot Gene Roddenberry served with during the Second World War. Roddenberry lost touch with his friend and had hoped that Singh's similar name might attract his attention and renew his old acquaintance.
Jonathan Emery
2022-07-06 04:46:30 +0000 UTCThis is a prequel of sorts to one of the movies. Also in regards to the creepy vibes that Khan gives off Roddenberry was a bit of a womanizer and unfortunately it comes through so much in the original series since he was heavily involved in its writing and production.
Jonathan Emery
2022-07-06 04:40:34 +0000 UTCI think it's an amazing episode because Ricardo was such an amazing actor to be creepy and intimidating, As an actor he had limited mobility even then. In the 50's in a movie he was thrown of a horse and was trampled by another horse. I mean basically when he was in a wheelchair when he wasn't acting. Also it has lore to the Star Trek movies.
DarkAshtar
2022-07-06 04:20:07 +0000 UTCI was very bummed when I saw this one won the poll. It won because Khan comes back in Star Trek 2 (which is subtitled "The Wrath of Khan" which is a fantastic movie. That being said, when I saw this episode in my TOS watch through in my teens, it nearly ruined Wrath of Khan for me. I absolutely hate this episode.
Zach Coty
2022-07-06 04:03:47 +0000 UTCThe story I heard was that Noonien Signh was the name of a friend he'd made during deployment during the war, but lost touch with and was his attempt to reach out and get back in contact with him.
Nolan
2022-07-06 02:19:36 +0000 UTCToday in "Things That Don't Age Well" : Mcgyvers. Yeeeeaaaahhhh.... I remember watching those scenes when I was younger after learning this episode was the prequel to the Much superior, less sexist, less misogynistic second movie. Like, why would she go along with this when this guy is a jerk? But at the same time, how many times have we seen narratives where the "stunted" bookworm nerdy girl who cares more for academics than romance goes through a "transformation" of losing their glasses and letting their hair down to unleash some "sexy goddess man-killer object of desire" even in the frigging teen-angst movies of the 90's and 2000's? Thank god that trope is starting to die. Maybe that's why Mcgyvers was so susceptible to it, because by the 23rd Century humankind has managed to evolve past such horrid behaviour so she was totally inexperienced and unprepared for it. But that's a stretch. If nothing else it shows how far we've come. Khan is not a good guy. The episode doesn't do enough to condemn his actions in this regard. As to that ending, well, there are a couple things to consider. For one, I don't think any Federation prison could hold Khan or his people for very long. They'd probably overpower all the guards and try their plan of domination again. So Kirk basically exiled them all to a remote world to keep them out of the way and with enough challenges to keep them there trying to survive, rather than an ability to escape. As for Mcgyvers, she DID commit mutiny, a crime with harsh punishments. Were there better options for her? Perhaps, but did Kirk even know about the abuse? My question is, what the HECK was a 20th Century historian even DOING on a starship? gettingher head turned by overly-romanticized ideas about the past in as skeeviley a way as possible apparently. Frankly, as much as it's nice that you guys now have a bunch of context for a big part of Star Trek lore... I think we as Patreons didn't do due diligence in maybe discussing when the poll was posted the triggering content of this episode. I knew it was there, and I thought you guys would have an important perspective on it and an important discussion about it, but did it click for me to give a heads up? Nope. Sorry about that. There's also stuff in this episode about Eugenics, and superior-mindedness and what a failing that is, how unity and strength of character can do more to win than physical strength and power alone. It is a 'necessary' but 'meh' episode in the end. I think, depending on where the reactions go in the future, you would've been asked to watch it eventually, if not now, this way, at least it's out of the way. And frankly, even as a guy, I gotta admit, there's something innately charming about Montelban's lilt. He plays a good disgusting bad guy you can't help but feel like there's more too. I actually want to go and read up on some different analyses of this episode, because I feel there are more layers here, it's definitely saying SOMETHING. I just personally can't put my finger on it just yet. Sorry for the dud. Hope the next ones are better!
Nolan
2022-07-06 02:11:48 +0000 UTCHello there... my 1st post here .... No spoilers, but SPACE SEED may be the single most impactful episode in all of TOS. Including the connection to DATA. Really hoping both of you react to the movies, but just like this episode is a prequel to Star Trek 2, the episodes JOURNEY TO BABEL and AMOK TIME could be considered prequels to Star Trek 3.
THE Fans
2022-07-06 02:07:06 +0000 UTCA little insight into the decision to cast a non-Indian in the role, speaking as an Indian who immigrated to the US in the early 1970s. Passing of the Immigration and Naturalization Act of 1965 (just 2 years prior to the episode) was the first time that significant numbers of Indians were even allowed into the country. Thus the number of Indian actors in the US in this era was paltry at best, and I'd argue none from that set would fit the role of Khan. Speaking for myself, Khan being an Indian character was huge, as it was the first time I'd seen a portrayal that wasn't a beggar, servant, or snake charmer. His being played by a Mexican was a distant secondary concern. He was a well-known actor playing a role, and playing it great.
Raja
2022-07-06 01:46:26 +0000 UTCAgreed with you up to the last line. Not all people are "of their era", if that makes sense. There are people who are "ahead of their time" and others who romanticize the past and their mores resonate better with it.
Raja
2022-07-06 01:41:50 +0000 UTCIn my case, it was Voyage Home that captured my young soul at the time. I actually firmly believe that if 6-year-old Me saw Wrath of Khan first... I wouldn't have become the Trekkie I am today.
Rex Witzel
2022-07-05 22:09:21 +0000 UTCUnfortunately that is incorrect. Q's evil court is from an entirely different era, that was essentially made to retcon away the Eugenics Wars. Roddenberry had been very vocal about his dislike for Wrath of Khan, and he's certainly the vindictive sort to attempt to outright erase such things, if he could. Q's court was in 2079, Data's mention of the United Nations decision to disallow guilt by race or forebears was in 2036, and the Eugenics wars were in the 1990s, making it clear that there was definitely another even greater conflict long afterward. They had to re-retcon it later,... and I think season 2 of Picard did a fairly good job tying it, and Strange New Worlds even spoken the events in a chain as if one lead to another. A good attempt to link them, but there is still inconsistency born of that initial effort of Roddenberry sabotage.
Rex Witzel
2022-07-05 22:08:31 +0000 UTCI will disagree on the "greatest" part, but it is certainly one of the widely favored. And lets be perfectly honest with ourselves,... its favored because of the space battles.
Rex Witzel
2022-07-05 22:03:52 +0000 UTCVoted for this episode because it's a prequel to the greatest Star Trek movie of all time, Star Trek 2: The Wrath of Khan!
Bill
2022-07-05 21:53:55 +0000 UTCA lot to unpack here. First as far as the plot ending goes Macguyver being given the choice of exile was probably Kirk being merciful. Remember Roddenberry tried to base the show on naval themes and traditions. Whatever her motivations Macguyver is guilty of mutiny and treason. In any real world navy in the past she would have been executed. Now I doubt an "enlightened" society such as the federation would have done that but I am sure the penalty would be the worse available. Allowing her an option she may be inclined to take (the healthiness of that inclination not withstanding), was probably Kirk being as merciful as he could. Secondly I will say I voted for this episode and honestly never gave much thought to what to me was primarily a subplot. That is probably what could be referred to as "male privilege". It never occurred to me how upsetting it could be because my personal experiences as a man don't include experiences of physical and emotional intimidation and manipulation of this nature. That brings me to my third thought and one I have touched upon in recent past comments...I am so happy you girls are allowing us to join you on your journey through trek for good and bad. Watching you two react to episodes of Trek I have seen many times over the years has given me all sorts of new insights. Your views on episodes like "Violations" and "A matter of Perspective", along with your critique of Geordies behavior in the two episodes with Leah Brahams (both real and holographic) really exposed me to a view of Trek I would never have otherwise. And those are just a few of the more obvious examples. The subtle re-examinations watching the show through your eyes has inspired are many...I actually tolerate wesley now for petes sake, lol. My only concern has been that instead of seeing these episodes as opportunities to share your unique (certainly to THIS fandom) perspectives, you may view them as emotionally burdensome chores. I hope you don't and I hope you continue your journey with Trek and continue sharing your honest critiques.
John Welch
2022-07-05 21:43:34 +0000 UTCFor likely the 12th time now, it was chosen because of Star Trek II. Even ignoring the casual sexism, Space Seed is still kind of a mediocre episode. But it's follow up (Star Trek II) is often considered the best of the films. So there you go. You've watched Space Seed and completed the ground work to watch a more enjoyable piece of Star Trek media.
Devin
2022-07-05 21:30:46 +0000 UTCI agree with your squicky feelings in this episode; Khan is so gross and everyone should've seen through his charming facade. BUT here's the thing about Kirk: he holds his officers to EXTREMELY high standards which was why he punished her so much. You'll see this in more TOS episodes: they'll write an academic female character who succumbs to the charms of a problematic male and when she betrays the values of Starfleet, he punishes her to remind her she's a capable intelligent officer, not a damsel. The problem, I think, is that they write the women in such a sexist way. He is so against women being damsels (from his crew; alien women he might bone are different) that he ends up being quite exacting. The episode handled Khan's joie de vivre TERRIBLY though because it made no sense for a 23rd century person to find ANYTHING he represented to be appealing.
Shelly
2022-07-05 21:04:45 +0000 UTCThe reason for this episode is that it ties into Star Trek 2 The Wrath of Khan which is arguably the best Star Trek movie ever made. Also like others have said here, the themes of eugenics permeates into other Star Trek series and if you watch Star Trek Enterprise has a series of episodes that ties directly to ending up with Data from TNG. Is this the best episode of TOS? No. There are better ones and The Doomsday Machine and others you’ve reacted are definitely some of them.
Kalhoun
2022-07-05 20:37:36 +0000 UTCThis episode is important in terms of telling of the eugenics war and its future effect on the federation as a whole, that war is the reason genetic manipulation is forbidden in the federation. Very useful info for future episodes and of course Khan's backstory. Even though it isnt a very good episode it still contains useful information.
Hampus Theander
2022-07-05 20:33:00 +0000 UTCAt first I was like, why was this one chosen? and then I remembered that Khan was in this one and thought, "I guess they'll get something out of this." It then became apparent that neither of you knew who Khan was and that's when the dread fully set in. The Wrath of Khan is great. It's what made me fall in love with Star Trek as a kid, but it’s greatness is not because of this episode. I mean sure this episode is important lore wise but I don't get why it was selected now. You guys don't even have plans to watch the movies at the moment, and DS9 is a ways away. At least this episode wasn't season three bad. You think this is bad and sexist, then you won’t believe what the series finale is like. Even as a dumb teen still stuck in my “not like other girls” phase I was offended by that one. I’m still hoping you’ll eventually get to see Journey to Babel, as I love that episode and it would be nice for y'all to see Sarek (and Spock’s mother Amanda) again.
Fritz
2022-07-05 20:30:54 +0000 UTCLots of people have mentioned Wrath Of Kahn ()which is awesome, it's all the second half and none of that sexist first half... in fact, I argue you would watch that movie without this episode and not miss a beat). But the Genetic Engineering plot points comes up in the other series (Q's evil court from the first TNG episode is from the same era that Khan is from), I'll spare you more spoilers except to say that yes, Data does wind up being tangentally connected to that whole thing, thanks to his great-grandparents. And some of that was just made story points this year. "Space Seed" plants a lot of lore.
Chris Neumann
2022-07-05 20:27:21 +0000 UTCVery Harley Quinn to The Joker lol
William Green
2022-07-05 20:19:13 +0000 UTCStar Trek 2: The Wrath of Khan
William Green
2022-07-05 20:17:00 +0000 UTCThis episode was probably not chosen for its own merits, but rather as a set up for Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan, which is in my opinion one of the best pieces of Star Trek there is. Also the Legacy of Khan's family will be brought up time and time again in the greater star trek franchise.
Nathan Walker
2022-07-05 20:05:35 +0000 UTCI didn't vote for this episode and I strongly suspected you wouldn't like it. The reason why it was chosen is this episode became the basis of Star Trek II. Most believe it's the best of all the Star Trek motion pictures, drawing from themes found in Moby Dick, Paradise Lost and King Lear. The problems with the episode obviously centers on McGivers (the writing, not the actor). Here are the contributing factors: 1) Even though Gene Roddenberry was a visionary in some regards, he was also rather misogynistic. 2) There were still attitudes among some during the late 1960's that considered women "the weaker sex". Easily manipulated and could be forced into submission by a strong man. So, did they have enough time during this one hour episode to write a better character? Probably. The episode did want to show Khan in the most ruthless light possible....the initial assault on McCoy and the constant manipulation of McGivers. As far as the end of the episode, Kirk's solution was probably a pretty good one. Do I turn these guys over to a Federation penal institution with the possibility of escape, corrupting individuals and causing the same havoc as the eugenics wars....or do I set them down on an unpopulated planet with no advanced technology with a fighting chance? Also, the decision with McGivers was probably one of compassion. Give her the choice of disgrace of a court martial or leaving with the man she loves. The story doesn't give us enough time to explore her mental state. If you want to make the case she was conditioned or brain washed, I think you might have a valid point. But in the end, she was given a choice and I believe it's the one she really wanted. The episode has some strong points and gives Kirk a worthy opponent , but the McGivers part didn't age well. In my opinion, there are much stronger episodes that you haven't watched. I hope you will view "The Doomsday Machine" next. It's probably the best episode for action.
T J
2022-07-05 19:58:52 +0000 UTCGod, we're so lucky no one suggest "Mudd's Women"!
Mark Ten
2022-07-05 19:56:46 +0000 UTCYeah, i've always disliked how Marla was portrayed. She's weak, almost instantly betrays her crew because she's attracted to a guy she just met who plays mindgames with her. She acts like a 12 year old, not an educated adult who presumably had to pass psych tests to be an officer on U.S.S. Enterprise.
Stephen Kronfeld
2022-07-05 19:49:24 +0000 UTCFrom the "old Star Trek is way sexist" perspective; here's hoping "Wolf in the Fold" never makes the Gals' episode polls...
Alexander Caldwell
2022-07-05 19:47:18 +0000 UTCBTW, I didn't vote for "Space Seed"; I knew it would be somewhat problematic, and I'm much more interested in how your reaction to "The Doomsday Machine" will go, which is a far better episode, IMHO.
Alexander Caldwell
2022-07-05 19:44:16 +0000 UTCI've heard this too. An old war buddy I believe. Gene was disappointed his friend never got back in touch with him.
Mark Chrisco
2022-07-05 19:38:18 +0000 UTCI guess the most popular of the OG Star Trek movies was a sequel to this episode, The Wrath Of Kahn . Somehow a lot of Star Trek lore & memes get tied into this story and the relationship between Kirk & . I didnt vote for this one, never particularly liked it, but the movie is pretty good. Doesnt have the same crrep factor
Mark Ten
2022-07-05 19:18:07 +0000 UTCI'm sure they wanted you to watch it in hopes you'd watch the movies, particularly the 2nd one. Which many would consider the best Trek movie. Honestly I'd be so excited if you watched the trilogy of the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th movie.
EricH86
2022-07-05 19:09:43 +0000 UTCI did remember the McGivers scenes and knew the Gals wouldn’t like them. Granted, no one probably actually “likes” them, as you’re not supposed to, but the choice Kirk gave her didn’t make sense.
Joe Concepts
2022-07-05 19:08:58 +0000 UTCI had a feeling you guys would react like this. The answer to why this was chosen? Spock's question at the end of the episode will be answered.
Mark Chrisco
2022-07-05 19:06:27 +0000 UTCI’m sure a lot of voters assumed at least Paula knew about Khan and would recognize the name and realize it leads into the movie. And the second no one recognized him I knew that wasn’t gonna work. :)
Joe Concepts
2022-07-05 19:06:11 +0000 UTCWow...I had not seen this episode since I was a kid. All of the super negative stuff "and bad writing" never registered with me till seeing it as an adult. Same thing with a number of TNG episodes. I only voted for this episode because Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan is my favorite star trek movie, and this episode introduces Khan to the Star Trek franchise.
Nicholas Walsh
2022-07-05 18:58:03 +0000 UTCThey compare Khan to conquering dictators in the past. The behavior he displays is to show what kind of loathsome character he is, not to glorify it or something, so that doesn't necessarily make it a bad episode. That would be like not liking a thriller or action movie because the bad guy kills someone. I also think McGivers was lucky she got a choice at all. Committing treason as an enlisted officer is of course more than enough grounds for a court-martial. Kirk’s decision to put those people on a deserted planet is debatable, although he may have thought that them escaping wherever they would be put was inevitable and would probably lead to much more danger for the societies than parking them here, where his thirst for conquering would be quenched.
Pickupthepieces76
2022-07-05 18:54:34 +0000 UTCMcCoy is a racist... and a lousy doctor. "Welp, this guys dead... or will be in a couple of minutes. No use trying to save him. Im a doctor, I know when someone is beyond working up a sweat for."
Mark Ten
2022-07-05 18:45:11 +0000 UTCI didn't vote for this episode, but I suspect the reason it won the poll is that the second Star Trek movie ("The Wrath of Khan"), which is universally considered the best Star Trek movie, is a sequel to it.
Keith Goodnight
2022-07-05 18:41:30 +0000 UTCRicardo Montalban other than his creepy relationship in this episode is also in the video many people have turned against with him singing the male lines in the song Baby it's Cold Outside where his character does everything to prevent his date from leaving his place, great song but with date rape vibes. Star Trek II The Wrath of Khan is considered the best movie of the TOS era movies. I believe the majority picked this in the hopes you would later react to it which answers the questions they had at the end of Space Seed and is very emotionally traumatic and well acted and written compared to the classic show. Bones has a love/hate fascination with antique medical procedures and devices. As most of his patients might be interested to see and touch them as very outdated he had it on display for them. After this episode you never see that display again and with obvious reasons. The 1990s are now of equal distance in time with the 90s being 30 years in the future of the 60s and now the 90s are 30 years in our past. The question as to why the name Noonian has sprouted in both TOS and TNG is due to Gene Roddenberry had a friend he lost track of years ago and so wanted his friend to see his success with both series he had that name added to both hoping his friend would see it and reach out to him. This was according to his wife Majel Barret Roddenberry stated in an interview.
Brad Barter
2022-07-05 18:39:59 +0000 UTCI assume this was voted for in case you react to the films later. One of the motion pictures returns to this story.
TheHimble
2022-07-05 18:39:25 +0000 UTCI love your reaction, but I'm not happy about that you say that (and other) episode(s) is(are) sexist. firstly it is only one small aspect of that episode and secondly it's a kind of "show not tell", that this behavior is bad. I have that impression in many TNG reactions of you, that you didn't understand that they show many kinds of bad behavior in contrast. that: "this is bad, you must be better". by showing only good and heartwarming stuff, how would the viewer know that his own behavior may be bad (holding the mirror to the viewer).
Redjac
2022-07-05 18:38:36 +0000 UTCAlso, some places number The Menagerie as one two-part episode (rather than two episodes), and some places even number The Cage as the first episode.
Firefly24601
2022-07-05 18:33:28 +0000 UTCI didn't vote for this episode because I knew you'd hate it. The reason people voted for it is because its required viewing if you ever intend to watch the movie Star Trek 2: The Wrath of Khan. If you don't intend to watch that movie, then there was absolutely no point watching this episode.
Wayne Clarke
2022-07-05 18:28:30 +0000 UTCI watched Wrath of Khan (and loved it) so many times before I saw this episode. I was decidedly underwhelmed by it.
Firefly24601
2022-07-05 18:25:06 +0000 UTCI don't understand why this was chosen either, tbh lol Khan is an iconic villain in the franchise. He returns as the main antagonist in Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan, and an alternate version of him appears in Star Trek Into Darkness. The Eugenics Wars are also a huge part of Trek lore, informing a character in Star Trek: Deep Space Nine, a story arc in Star Trek: Enterprise, and a twist reveal in Star Trek: Picard. Captain Picard even references Khan in "A Matter of Time" when he is arguing with Berlinghoff Rasmussen in his ready room. HOWEVER, the biggest reason to watch this episode is to set up Star Trek II. And, y'all have said OVER AND OVER that y'all aren't planning to watch the films - at the very least, not those featuring the TOS cast. So, no, I have no idea why so many Patrons voted for this one for y'all. :)
Joshua Gosdin
2022-07-05 18:20:42 +0000 UTCI suspected this would be your reaction to the episode. I think people were picking it because of Khan, who reappears in a movie that's considered one of the best in all of Star Trek (Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan). The episode itself is not one I've ever thought of as a great episode of TOS in general - there were much better episodes on the list. Then considering the sexist attitudes of Khan, the violence against Uhura, and how it ends for McGivers, really drags it down. Maybe at least it'll be a teaching moment for your audience.
Bret Kay
2022-07-05 18:19:50 +0000 UTCThis episode had a better follow up in the film Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan Witch has influenced the franchise ever since especially the films Hell strange new worlds witch is set about 8 years before this episode had the Enterprise security chief be La'an Noonien-Singh a descendant of Khan. While in the JJ Films Khan was played by Benedict Cumberbatch in In To Darkness.
Alex Bennett
2022-07-05 18:19:37 +0000 UTCAs someone who did not vote for this episode, I'll say that I think some fans are too obsessed with Star Trek lore, and not interested enough with what episodes have interesting themes or points of discussion. Khan and the eugenics wars are mentioned several times in future Trek movies and spinoffs, which I guess makes this episode seem like "essential viewing" for some fans. As for the Khan Noonien Sing/ Dr Noonien Soong thing, Gene Rodenberry really liked certain sounds and reused them many times. For main characters, he though hard R and T sounds conveyed authority, so you got names like KiRK, PiCard, SpoCk, RiKer, etc. Since both this villain and the creator of data were supposed to be intelligent, I can see him using similar names for them for reasons only he knew.
Dan Crucy
2022-07-05 18:10:21 +0000 UTCI WOULD say that Uhura's character and representation was excellent, she didn't back down and was ready to take another beating for her ship and crew.
Zegron
2022-07-05 18:10:09 +0000 UTCSo, in fairness of this episode and all of TOS in general. If you choose to watch TOS you will get some 60s misogyny and sexism. That is there throughout all of the show. As to why this episode is so popular, Khan. Khan, Khan, and more Khan. Kirks greatest single person adversary. The main villian of Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan, many people's favorite Star Trek movie.
Elway Simpson
2022-07-05 18:09:51 +0000 UTCKhan WAS sexist, for certain. Its a part of his psychopathic personality. I didn't like that MacGyver left either, thats one of the parts of it that sat wrong with me as well. We voted for this episode because of the far reaching implications it has for the Star Trek universe.
Zegron
2022-07-05 18:08:43 +0000 UTCUm, sorry for picking this episode......
Mike
2022-07-05 18:07:53 +0000 UTCI believe the reason this episode was chosen is because it sets up one of the movies. It's been a long time since I've seen it personally, and I had forgotten that the uncomfortable scenes with MacGyver were in there. Though I didn't vote for it myself, I'm sorry to have subjected you to that.
Kevin Miller
2022-07-05 18:04:48 +0000 UTCPaula is not too far of with connecting Khan Noonien Singh and doctor Noonian Soong. After all, one of Soong's ancestors created the genetically engineed humans in the first place.
Emil Borg
2022-07-05 17:59:39 +0000 UTCThe outdated expressions of misogyny depicted here notwithstanding (and there certainly are a few), it can't be overstated how influential this episode has been on the Star Trek franchise; in some cases to its benefit, and others to its detriment. For better or worse, "Khan" is a name you should not soon forget.
Alexander Caldwell
2022-07-05 17:48:44 +0000 UTCThe numbering difference is probably production-order vs. aired-order. TOS aired eps willdly out of production order.
Ken Quick
2022-07-05 17:13:18 +0000 UTCI haven't even watched the video yet, but that thumbnail promises a very interesting reaction from the Gals. :)
Dan Crucy
2022-07-05 17:02:50 +0000 UTC
