Kill the Moon, Gallifrey Gals Get Wibbly Wobbly! S8Ep7
Added 2021-07-15 17:00:06 +0000 UTCWhat would you do if you had to kill the moon? Katrina coming in and warming up to this season after rewatching and sharing with Paula! What has been your favorite episode so far this season?
PAULA DEMING
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KATRINA ALYSHA
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Comments
Annoying that they didn't address the real controversy which is how blatantly anti-abortion this episode was...why not talk about the thing people actually had a problem with?
BiPolar HoneyBear
2022-02-03 11:16:08 +0000 UTCCertainly one of the worst of the modern era, but nothing can be as bad as the Classic Era show "The Twin Dilemma"
Martyn Hill
2021-12-08 20:31:32 +0000 UTCGod I forgot how much I hated this episode..
Torstein Skurve
2021-08-08 00:40:05 +0000 UTCI agree with most of your points, but at least with the Silurians, the moon being an egg, can explain how their scientists determined that it's velocity and trajectory would mean that it would impact the earth, only for it to suddenly stop and enter into a perfect orbit around the planet.
tal goren
2021-07-24 22:48:28 +0000 UTCThe whole creature laying another moon sized egg was such a bone of contention for me, that I forgot what a good episode it actualy is, watching it through different eyes as helped me love it
Steven morgan
2021-07-18 13:55:57 +0000 UTCYou’ve outlined nearly every problem I have had myself about the “Moon is an Egg” concept, but I still “tolerate” the episode because I think it was more or less a vehicle to get us to the end point where we are with Clara falling out with the Doctor. That being said, I’m happy they attempted to really dive deep into the Doctor and Companion having some differences in perspective, but that plot line…. Yikes lol.
Steve Combs
2021-07-17 14:02:52 +0000 UTCFirst of all, you two are great, never let anyone say anything to the contrary, or at least don't take any stock in it! As for the overall arc of the episode, I can see enjoying the general dynamics. Clara's monologue was performed phenomenally too, Jenna Coleman is extremely talented and I'm glad she got to show it off here! Capaldi's Doctor is also a wonderful character portrayal. Now with that said, rant time. I'm sorry but the "Moon is an egg" scenario for me was actually just really hard to suspend disbelief for and it pulled me out too much. It's not for a lack of truly out-there stories in the past which you two highlighted well, hell the next episode is pretty crazy setting wise, and I love it! I think my issue with this one comes down to a few things. Tone - the tone here, and of series 8 in general, is far darker and more serious. The show is presenting itself as 'less silly' and more 'gritty' (something multiple people I know agreed with me on) and when you're trying to be taken more in that light, it's important to get the details right. The burden of explanation at the very least needs to be taken on. For me that leads to point 2... The Doctor is wrong - I don't mean in his choice to leave the decision to the others, that's the only meat to this episode, I mean about fundamental scientific concepts. I don't mean to say Doctor Who hasn't played fast and loose with scientific accuracy before (it's more science-fantasy than anything else) and I don't expect it to be something like The Expanse here, but he says the Moon has gained mass… that just doesn't make sense, an enclosed system like an egg can't gain mass like that. Ok, I get it, it's just a ridiculous TV show, but as I said the burden of explanation is on the show when it's in a darker season, especially on a serious episode. The explanation I need doesn't HAVE to make scientific sense, but it should make logical sense in order for the audience to accept it. This isn't the best way to handle it, but Star Trek covers this issue well enough with techno-babble and it works, all they needed to do here was use that. A simple throw away line of "It's feeding off the mass of a pocket of parallel space" or some such nonsense is sufficient. As outlined here, it just doesn't work. What's worse though is that we literally have rock samples from the Moon, and as an amateur astronomer, we can determine the chemical composition of the surface from here, so how did they find no deposits there? Also: Why was the Moon fine in Clara's time, but over it's 100 million year life as the Moon it only added that 1.3 billion tons in the last 35 years? How does the creature lay another Moon sized egg? Where's THAT extra mass coming from? How are those spiders single celled organisms? What exactly was blowing up the Moon supposed to accomplish anyway... I mean before they figured there was a shifting creature underneath they could kill? They said themselves that if the Moon 'hatched' it could just make a bunch of debris and impact the Earth killing everyone… blowing up the Moon would have definitely done the same thing. Also, 100 of the most powerful nuclear bombs ever made wouldn't blow up the Moon anyway. What was the plan exactly? This story contradicts the fact the Moon was around and threatened the Silurians 300 million years ago if it's only 100 million years old, also Matt Smith mentioned races currently living on the Moon in a previous episode. In fact, it also contradicts a number of other stories too. Are some of these things nit picky? Sure, but the fact is despite my ability to love silly Doctor Who stories, they take on a different character when they are not recognizing themselves as silly. David Tennant's and Matt Smith's series in particular do tend to bring that self-referential flair and it benefits them greatly from it. When you are going for the feel series 8 is going for, at least most the time, you have a lot less latitude for that. It's actually why, despite a lot of people disliking it, I LOVED Robot of Sherwood, it knew it didn't need to make that much sense and that it could just be fun. The problem here is that this plotline is nonsensical, full of holes that don't hold up if you give it more than a passing thought, and the Doctor says things here that are just patently wrong and contradictory. He's supposed to be incredibly intelligent, and while we can cut him a lot of slack for messing up fun timey-whimey stuff, messing up elementary school level science looks bad on him, I just don't buy it. It's like him saying the Earth is flat, it's just a leap too far, especially in an episode that's trying to suck you in and be serious and dark and emotional at the same time. It feels at odds with itself. Personally I found Danny here to be pretty much how Katrina found him in this episode, and I found the drama - which at least made sense in the context of the episode - felt forced. It just feels like it's trying to be edgier. I'm not against that overall, but as I said, it's a theme in this season a lot and it just never feels quite organic enough for me to believe it, it just feels heavy-handed oftentimes. You aren't wrong for enjoying this episode, and you aren't wrong for not caring about the egregious plot holes, everyone has a different point if view. For my money though, and a lot of other people's, this was the worst episode of Doctor Who since Love and Monsters. Luckily, I truly love the next two episodes! It's not all negativity here. Also, side note, Peter Capaldi is a treasure. He was such a great Doctor to the fans. Check out some of the side videos he did talking to the audience at large. Wonderful guy!
Graham Smith
2021-07-17 05:18:53 +0000 UTC(Yay for the SJA plugs! <3)
Nicole Mazza
2021-07-17 03:07:24 +0000 UTCPaula as usual your a delight, ignore the haters and keep munching
Steven morgan
2021-07-17 00:19:31 +0000 UTCThe control freak was put in a situation she couldnt control and couldnt hack it, so she blames her friend for not taking control...uh huh 👀. Yeah im not a big fan of this one, the moon thing is whatever, i can suspend disbelief.. but are we supposed to pretend that the moon breaking apart had ZERO affect on the massive body of water the Tardis landed in front of?... cmon 😅
DeathSwitch
2021-07-16 07:12:05 +0000 UTCI was iffy on the egg but always liked the episode, 2 time shout outs: #1 11:42 Paula and the opps, ya, oh, well nothing to see here face. :D followed up by #2 49:20 Katrina holding the steepled fingers with the "So...? how's it going?" question in her expression patiently letting the moment breath :)
hrcaffee
2021-07-16 06:25:48 +0000 UTCPaula, you're wonderful, brilliant, a delight! Well done on all counts if I'm honest!
Joshua Gosdin
2021-07-16 03:57:46 +0000 UTCI never thought of this story as being anything about abortion, and only really heard that point of view recently (but then I never paid attention to social media when this was broadcast, and rarely do now anyway). My gut feeling about that, being from Aus, is that it is more likely people from the US who see the story in that light, as the topic of abortion is far more divisive and politically charged there than in the UK or Australia. I could be wrong, and am showing my own bias, of course. For me the topic of the voice of killing or not killing the creature is better equated to how to deal with a rare but dangerous wild animal that might be a risk to people.
Lloyd B
2021-07-16 01:48:58 +0000 UTCSo I don’t know if either of you will remember anything about me by my username but if you do it will likely be an unpleasant memory. I have had some rather contentious (to put it politely) conversations in the comment sections of your videos and have been accused of being rude, mean and been called other things I’d not care to repeat. However, I can say with certitude that I have never said anything with the intent of being harmful and I have never lobbed insults. And in response to your call to action in this video I’d like to say the following and I hope that you both get to read it. I think you are both wonderful, compassionate, insightful, intelligent, clever human beings and, regardless of disagreements or even frustrations, I always find a bit of joy and happiness when I watch your videos. I truly hope that both of you are happy in your lives and that you have found some fulfillment and satisfaction in your pursuits. You’re both two lovely individuals with lovely spirits and I for one feel fortunate that you allow us to share in your journey. Thank you. (P. S. You might consider a noise gate (set somewhere around - 34db would probably work) for Paula’s mic if she’s going to use her headset mic. That might help keep the next video from sounding like a chewing ASMR video 😝)
Brandon Scott
2021-07-15 23:54:06 +0000 UTCAfter a work flight to the US, I was in the lift in Heathrow airport and realised that the girl with her family who had picked her up also in the lift was the actress who played Courtney. She was a lovely girl, very excited telling her parents about the sci fi exhibition she just can't back from, sweet moment 👍
Sufyaan Kazi
2021-07-15 21:08:32 +0000 UTCI'm surprised that Clara didn't reference that time when she helped 10, 11, and the War Doctor decide to NOT destroy Gallifrey. They were ready to press that destruct button together until 11 noticed that Clara looked like she had something to say. If you look at it from that perspective, then what 12 did in this episode was very hypocritical. But setting that aside, I agree with what 12 did. I understand Clara's anger at it, but I think she went too far by telling him to leave and never come back. She should have just left the TARDIS, blown off some steam, and then returned later to make up with him. Also, I really didn't like this episode the first time I saw it because I thought the premise was utterly ridiculous. But I'm a lot more accepting of it now.
Jeff Seely
2021-07-15 21:04:50 +0000 UTCI'm late to the Patreon party, but I made it thru the backlog and have finally caught up to the Gals in real time!
SolarPhantom74
2021-07-15 20:58:56 +0000 UTCIt's funny, when this came out, one of the biggest criticisms I saw was how it was about abortion. For whatever reason, that didn't even occur to me until I read those reviews -- though I can see where people got that idea after the fact. The writer supposedly has gone on record saying that was not at all his intention. but obviously fiction is always open to interpretation and the abortion allegory was a very common one. 🤷♀ P.S. FIWIW, I don't hate the story. I feel like it has some good emotional beats, but obviously some weird DOCTOR WHO SCIENCE at the heart of it that makes it suffer a bit plot-wise. And I also just never took to Courtney. Still, I do mostly like it as a character piece and I think that Capaldi and Coleman did a great job with it. 😀
Nicole Mazza
2021-07-15 20:56:59 +0000 UTCAs a massive Martha fan, I can definitely agree with the idea that the Tenth Doctor could be a pretty big jerk sometimes! (And honestly, I'm always surprised how many people think he was always so 'nice') But yeah, as you said, people seem to gloss over that sort of thing with Ten and Eleven, but they had their harsh sides just like Twelve does (or any of the Doctors, really). I mean, Twelve doesn't 'hide' it as much obviously, he doesn't mask it as much, but you can also see that he cares too (like he was really upset in the ending scene of this story too -- I think he feels awful about hurting Clara). Weirdly, I honestly think Twelve cares EVEN MORE a lot of the time, but he's trying to hide his softness by acting/being a bit rough around the edges -- almost the inverse of Ten and Eleven, where they were trying to hide their darker/rougher sides by being charming instead.
Nicole Mazza
2021-07-15 20:40:39 +0000 UTCI'm in the US, so I've not tried Irn Bru yet (though I've been aware of it for a long time -- and the controversy where the flavor changed because of the UK's 'sugar tax'). But I'm in roller derby (as an official, not a skater these days) and Glasgow's roller derby team is called the 'Irn Bruisers' (well, that's their travel/A-team) and I seriously think that's one of my fave roller derby team names! <3 Anyway, I should actually watch your reaction! :)
Nicole Mazza
2021-07-15 19:29:19 +0000 UTCI just loved the look of anticipation from Kat when the episode ended 😄
Gjermund Higraff
2021-07-15 19:17:40 +0000 UTCI think Kat and Paula are exactly right. Had 11 been put in the same situation, he would have done a MUCH better job at explaining that he was leaving, and why. Something like "I know I usually help you with things, and at first I thought this situation was no different. But this one is special, and I can't be the one who makes this decision for you. I believe in you, Impossible Girl; and you, Disruptive Influence; and you, Astronaut Whose Name I Never Asked About. I'll be back when you've made your decision."
Firefly24601
2021-07-15 19:10:30 +0000 UTCP.s. totally forgot about Jenna's epic acting at the end with the Doctor 😭
Sufyaan Kazi
2021-07-15 18:40:42 +0000 UTCThe TV ad for Irn Bru used to claim it was 'made in Scotland with girders'. If only we could be so lucky - if it did have girders in it, it might taste better. Remember, it's the colour of wombat piddle for a reason. Try the shortbread instead. A tad sugary - the souvenir tins all say 'A Gift from Scotland'. Trouble is the gift is type 2 diabetes.
Chris Padwick
2021-07-15 18:39:54 +0000 UTCThat drink you're having actually looks like Bubble Shock! (Sarah Jane Adventures reference - I'll keep plugging that show till you guys watch it 😀). I also feel this story gets far more hate than it deserves. Yes the moon as egg is a silly concept, but so is a lot of DW. And yes, every Doctor is manipulative, going right back to 1963 - some just more obviously than others. Jenna's performance at the end is outstanding, though, and lifts this episode to a higher level than it would otherwise have been. Clara’s hurt is justified, but at the same time the Doctor is genuinely perplexed, thinking he was helping. Once again miscommunication all round, something of a theme this season. Loving your enjoyment of this series, and finding Paula's analysis really insightful.
Lloyd B
2021-07-15 18:27:07 +0000 UTCI was pro 90% of this episode at the time as we got to see a unique version of the Doctor we had never seen before and it was a great flip on the classic Doctor / Companion storyline. But then ...... the moon became an egg 🤯🤨 Surely there was a better way to create a moral dilemma to test Clara
Sufyaan Kazi
2021-07-15 18:26:16 +0000 UTCLoved the Gals and their reaction this week! Made the episode more entertaining (and boy did it need it.) Katrina in her FANTASTIC shirt, and Paula's processing of the last scene. UGH so good!!
Firefly24601
2021-07-15 18:23:52 +0000 UTCI liked the character drama of the episode, but it was the absurdity of the sci-fi concept that threw me when this story first came out. I'm willing to forgive the contradiction of the Moon-as-egg concept with what we've learned about the physical nature of the moon, but the hatching scene made me want to throw things at my TV. Animals hatch from eggs when they outgrow the size of the egg. And then it lays a new egg with the same mass and gravity (presumably - if it's saving the earth from the effects of having the original moon gone). It doesn't have any internal logic to it, aside from the high-concept sci-fi conceits.
Christopher Jones
2021-07-15 18:21:56 +0000 UTCI think this is a fairly standard episode, up to the point it's revealed the moon is an egg. The tone of the episode super-serious, but the moon-egg thing is a fairly silly concept. It's hard to do a wink-and-nudge "just go with it, it's Doctor Who" when something so physical and commonplace as the moon is being set up for something so easily debunked. People' souls being trapped in The Cloud? Wifi, internet and the nature of human consciousness are so conceptual for a lot of people, its easy to get creative with. They already had an episode where the Earth was a nest for the Racnoss, so a moon-egg also seemed a bit unoriginal. Also, just because a creature is large, doesn't mean the germs around it would be large. Whales have the same size germs as mice. Once they return to the present, though, it get exceptional. Even the little bit with Clara trying to get Courtney out in a hurry, you can see something is very wrong, and you brace yourself.
Firefly24601
2021-07-15 18:17:40 +0000 UTCLove to you both.
TheHimble
2021-07-15 18:15:19 +0000 UTCThis is my third time through this episode. I set my suspension of disbelief on absolute maximum and I still can't swallow it. The cast acted the hell out of it, but it just doesn't make any sense. It's OK though. Every show has to have a worst episode of all time. Clara's last scene telling off the Doctor is excellent though and almost makes the rest of it worth watching.
Bob Hughes
2021-07-15 18:09:19 +0000 UTCI actually enjoyed this episode, not my favorite but it gave more dynamics between clara and the doctor, i like rewatching it (which is how i usually judge if i like an episode) Love your reactions, i make my tuesday/Thursday afternoons free so i can watch it as soon as possible.
Amanda Logsdon
2021-07-15 18:06:16 +0000 UTCLots of emotions and reactions, great episode Gals, and P.S. I think because of all the awful stuff in iron brew I think it’s not allowed in the US
WhoIamisme
2021-07-15 17:59:07 +0000 UTChttps://youtu.be/4h03QLwxi1g
Sufyaan Kazi
2021-07-15 17:50:49 +0000 UTCI feel like we should share the tv adverts of our British snacks so Katrina & Paula have the true experience. Luv Irn (Iron) Bru, p.s Paula you are awesome ❤️ ( you too Katrina!)
Sufyaan Kazi
2021-07-15 17:50:13 +0000 UTCI like this episode and your reaction! Paula’s predictions about Clara and 12’s addictive toxic relationship is spot on!! That is an incredibly empathetic read. You’re both less Charitable to Danny though… I don’t think he ever tell’s Clara to stop. His advice is just his perspective; he can’t follow leaders after his experience in the army. If anything it’s impressive that he’s not resentful that she leads this separate life! As for the egg this it’s as plausible as any of the other science on the show. We’ve encountered ancient beings, starwhales living statues! I’ve never understood why people struggle with the concept. In execution I’d have liked the episode to have given us more clues so we could decide for ourselves. Morally killing the baby is justifiable to save the entire Earth! Without intel Clara’s choice was just luck because compassion-wise it’s a no-win scenario. Also the Doctor didn’t need to physically leave, he could have been there for them without making the decision. It was harsh but it shows how after a thousand years on trenzalore he’s lost perspective. So excited for the next episode; it’s my favourite of the season!
George Baxter
2021-07-15 17:48:39 +0000 UTCWorst episode of the season, I even preferred “Forest Of The Night” than this!
Wajid-Ibrar Haq
2021-07-15 17:33:22 +0000 UTCNot the best episode but the length of your comment posted this soon suggests you had this one in the chamber
WhoIamisme
2021-07-15 17:33:06 +0000 UTCA true Scotsman LOVEs IrnBru 😋
Wajid-Ibrar Haq
2021-07-15 17:32:05 +0000 UTCSorry, I've got nothing good to say about this episode. The hamfisted abortion allegory where an entire planet chooses to commit suicide to save the unborn creature and the completely OOC nature of Clara's rant at the end because Moffat needed an excuse for her to walk away no matter if the reason made sense or not. He scared her by making her make a decision for her own species? Seriously? Dude has already nearly suffocated her and given her a fright while inside of a damn Dalek, and the worse she did was slap him. Her walking out because he chose not to make a decision for her just screamed "I'm only doing this because the script says so." Not to mention the absolute intelligence-insulting nonsense of the moon being an egg. As I said online back when this episode first aired, "There's a difference between asking us to suspend disbelief and asking us to take our disbelief out back and shot." Yes, Doctor Who has had some funny science many times in the past, but the beauty of the show is that it came up with ideas that were plausible, or at the very least consistent with the logic of the universe they've created in the show. The Earth's moon being an egg is just pure fairy tale BS. Peter Harness is a mess of a writer. I won't say more because spoilers, but good grief. The man just doesn't do subtle or clever. On a good note, though, I love Hermione Norris (the poor, frazzled captain). She used to be in a show I used to watch called "Spooks" (It was called "MI-5" in the US) and she's a fabulous actor. Also, Jenna Coleman's performance is stunning. Not her fault the script was BS, but her portrayal of it was just perfect. OH! Almost forgot. Much love to Paula. My hate is ALLL on this shitty episode, dear, not on you.
Scribbles
2021-07-15 17:25:31 +0000 UTCIt's Iron Brew, it's disgusting, and I am Scottish :)
WhoIamisme
2021-07-15 17:10:10 +0000 UTC
