The High Ground, Gallifrey Gals Get Warped! S3Ep12

I think they were just saving their prosthetics budget for a different episode and had to come up with something cheap since there were so many background actors playing aliens.

Ashley

I grew up in London when the IRA were setting off bombs on the mainland. I remember the undercurrent of fear that was always present. The bombs were just frequent enough that people were always a little nervous. I'm aware of the cliches about one man's freedomfighter is another man's terrorist. And I know that both sides of the conflict were responsible for awful acts. But blowing up people in shopping centres or department stores, people who had no power, no influence, no ties to the government or the armed forces? That's murder, nothing more. But in the early eighties I moved away fromLondon to somewhere that would be much quieter. Brighton. The British seaside. Two years later they blew up the Grand Hotel in an attempt to kill Margaret Thatcher. And the fecking eejits couldn't even get that right. But at least we then got the Good Friday Agreement and a peace was declared. But just to be on the safe side, I have moved again. And peace has been lovely. The falsely imprisoned supposed IRA members have been freed. Justice is being sought for the innocent victims of violence on both sides of the conflict. It was so nearly a happy ending. Compromise had been reached and wounds were eventually healing. Then Brexit happened and The Good Friday Agreement is in danger of being thrown out the window and everything could return to the bad old days. I don't want a return to violence. I don't want to see one more innocent person killed in the name of sectarianism. But the people that sold this country the lie that is Brexit? Farage, BoJo, JRM, etc etc... all so they could make money and push their intolerance and bigotry? I don't mind if a few of them end up with a few bruises. Just leave the hotels alone.

Steve

Can it be Tuesday again? Feels like I REALLY need TNG today.

Nolan

I have to say, starting next episode... it's when Star Trek gets amazing and starts taking off!

Weapon26

Yeah watching this now, in the present climate of the world. oooooh Boyyyyyy!

Christine Ester

This is the first time watching this episode where I actually understood it, lol. Last time I saw it was probably pre-9/11, and I was too young to know anything about terrorism or what all of this meant. They did the right thing leaving the ending ambiguous.

trylikeafool

So when anyone asks whether Star Wars or Star Trek is better, you can say "Star Trek, they had The High Ground first!"

Chris Lane- Venturi 3D

Wow so many heavy episodes back to back. Next week is going to be fun. ...So long as you avoid any forks.

EricH86

I know you two are watching ahead of this...but i know we are hitting deep in the season now. Looking forward to Kat's reactions.

paulh7791

Lovely sentiment :) A whole new generation has grown up (now in their 20's) WITHOUT that violence,and they absolutely do not want it back. Not only that,but they're hopefully mixing together and forming relationships (because - nature!),so that the next generation will be even further removed.

Ian Smith

Yes,I completely agree with you.

Ian Smith

I'd forgotten the context of the clip of Data talking about Irish unification in 2024, it has been getting a lot of play on UK and Irish social media since Brexit. I had no idea it wasn't shown in the UK on first run, but back then we blocked all sort of stuff for dumb reasons on UK TV. One of the daftest examples of Thatcher-era UK censorship IMO was the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, they had to be called Teenage Mutant Hero Turtles instead, as we had a ban on Ninjas or something, they had to redo the theme tune and everything.

Kirk Deighton

This is a book recommendation for Paula (the book would spoil stuff for Katrina). I do not know if you are a reader or if you have read this book already but based on your comments in this episode you might like this book. https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/552163.Death_in_Winter

Dave Hampton

im an irish catholic from northen ireland growing up there was bombs going off every week soilders use to ransake our homes during the night our people would be arrested and locked up without a fair trial. protestant uvf members killed catholics and the IRA killed protestants and i lost family and friends but innocent protestants lost family and friends too . it was a horrible time and both sides lost good innocent people ...the war is over now but the pain and heartbreak is still fresh soo many familys lost there brothers and sisters heartbroken parents having to bury there children. i understand conflict i understand that belief is a powerfull thing because of belief people are willing to kill and die for a cause.. however it dosnt change the fact that BOTH sides of the troubles lost too many good people to much pain and death . in war nobody really wins cause both sides lose too much . you can win a war but you cant bring back the dead. thank god and lady ireland that the killing and bombings are a thing of the past now. its time for BOTH catholics and protestants to live in peace to put the 800 year war behind us. to come togther as brothers and sisters, as children of ireland.

Brendan Reid

I know I don't really post here, and I'm sorry I don't have much to say, but I want you 2 to know I'm so loving going through this journey with you guys. Thanks so much for sharing this with us :)

Mike

The sympathetic terrorist trope is something that lived in the 90's and pretty much died out completely after 2001... Even to this day I go back to 9/11 footage because even though I was like, 11 at the time and Canadian, the images of that day have stuck, and there's just so many layers of understanding and tragedy to that day. Of the many things that changed that day and reverberate to this day, one of them was the change of terrorism from being "out there," away from home, a point of academic debate, rather than a harsh reality. This episode hits much harder globally than it did when it aired. And now I think it's even-handedness of the issue is even HARDER to reconcile today after 9/11 and the more recent political polarization. But I think that's also why it's message of empathy and understanding, at least of causes while not accepting methodology is so important. Our world is on a very shaky path. We NEED to do more to stop this episode from mirroring. That is one thing I've always valued about Star Trek. How even handed it was. It'll look at a complicated issue and usually NEVER say whether one side or not was right, but just present the two sides and their merits and drawbacks and reasons, but also just be stark about the results of it. It was NEVER about telling the audience which side to fall on, but that allowing a situation to reach the point where choosing sides like that was something to avoid. Was a failure. "Don't do this, it's too mired in complication and difficult answers, choose another way." As for the themes of escapism this season... this episode is also about escaping from responsibility. Every harsh action is the result of the actions of "the other side." "They did this, so we must do that. It's evil stuff we must do, but "they" forced us to do it." "I don't have to face the moral and ethical questions of my actions because the other side doesn't face them either and drove me to it. As did my cause/" All things people tell themselves so they can maintain a degree of righteousness and not question themselves. Another fun way this episode echoes into today: a device that prolonged overuse of can damage the health of the user. How can people be so stupid to risk their lives that way? We ask while perhaps watching this on our cellphones and send pictures and messages to our friends. Oh dear.

Nolan

"It's over Anakin, I have The High Ground" 😆

Geordie Joe

So much better than I remembered. What really stood out to me this time around was Riker wanting to negotiate for Bev's release. When they mention the negotiation might make things worse, it struck me how the Federation will take care of their own, then leave and the problem remains. A happy ending - for the Federation. Just another day on the planet. The beauty of an episode like this is it lets us see both sides of the argument and look at the tactics impartially. That's impossible to do when you're already vested in one group. This episode has also been censored during some replays to cut out Data and Picard's discussion about terrorism being a viable tactic.

John

Alistair, I encourage you to take a second pass at your comment. Read it out loud and see if the paragraph still hangs together the way you intended.

michael mccafferty

I’m not a fan of the new shows and I absolutely love their views on them, lol.

Andrew Hogan

Interesting observation.

Andrew Hogan

From what I understand, it only has recently been shown in certain parts of the UK because of exactly that. The IRA was at its peak, right around the time of this episode, and you can feel a distance in the writing of the episode. It’s like an outsiders perspective on a subject, very clinical. I think if it were written today, it would have a MUCH different feel since we have all now lived through it. I think a lot of things changed since 9/11, maybe even more than we realize.

Andrew Hogan

Alistair Hodges

Ohhh man, I was waiting for this one. This episode definitely gets overshadowed by the next one and understandably so, to a point. I was 8 when this episode aired and it never really struck a chord with me because I was young and for another obvious reason. However this episode took on a whole new meaning post 9/11. I was 19 when that happened and just starting to understand how our world works. I’ve seen this episode multiple times since and I look at it slightly different each time with the passing years. Until 9/11 our only dealing with terrorism were Vietnam, a few hostage situations and the first World Trade Center bombing in ‘93. Being born and raised in NY, obviously this hits even closer to home, especially as someone who had a parent that was a firefighter (retired at the time, but you know the camaraderie of that brotherhood. Ever since I’ve been fascinated with terrorism and it’s history, because now it’s a part of this country as well. I checked Memory Alpha to see what the writers said about this episode and surprisingly they didn’t like it, especially Ron Moore. I’m a little surprised by this, because I thought they did a very good job showing just how ambiguous a topic it can be. There is no easy or even right answer at times, and as Katrina said, it makes you think about it. I could go on, but I digress. I’m glad Paula watches RLM, such a funny channel if you’re into movies or Star Trek / Star Wars. On to the second half of the season!

Andrew Hogan

I a SO excited for the next episode though: I adore it.

Arek Schneyer

This is a hard one. Hard one to watch, hard one to talk about. Well written, a situation where no one is innocent, and no choice is the right one.

Arek Schneyer

I always remembered this episode as 'That controversial one';but it's worth pointing out that another UK broadcaster (Sky TV) had absolutely no qualms whatsoever about transmitting it uncut only a year or so later. At the time,sensibilities were running very high in the UK because of the actions of the IRA etc. I think the BBC cutting Data's dialogue was probably more to do with the Corporation not wanting to get a ton of complaints from viewers (particularly those in Northern Ireland!) As you both so accurately point out,having a 45 minute episode of Star Trek tackle such a weighty theme can only mean that it'll be inconclusive and simplistic. I remember reading a review in an episode guide,which asked the question 'would they tackle this subject in the same sort of way, post 9/11?' Possibly not.

Ian Smith

Haha I love that Paula is watching Mike and Rich's videos of favorite TNG episodes. They are well versed in the lore. They do have fierce criticisms of the new shows Discovery and Picard so if you are an equally fierce defender of either show then those discussions won't be enjoyable.

Jarrod Wild

I think the white hair stripe vs black hair stripe might be an homage to the TOS episode "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield" where the opposing characters had black and white sides to their faces.

Firefly24601