Up the long Ladder, Gallifrey Gals Get Warped! S2Ep18
Added 2020-08-18 17:01:02 +0000 UTCClones and Riker kissing another woman! This episode we might feel some feels, and needles ugh we could do without! Today's episode the Gals React to Star Treck: TNG Season 2 Episode 18, titled "Up the Long Ladder"
https://vimeo.com/807303563/59c32fab7b
PAULA DEMING
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbTN...
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/paolobandita/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/PaulaDeming
IMDb: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm2984865/
KATRINA ALYSHA
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9jY...
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/katrina_alysha
Twitter: https://twitter.com/katrinaalysha
IMDb: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm8371578/
Intro Song by: Pixel Pig by Di Young https://youtu.be/TiC7_167hQ0
Creative Commons Attribution license
Free Download / Stream: https://bit.ly/di-young-pixel-pig
All the videos, songs, images, and graphics used in the video belong to their respective owners and I or this channel does not claim any right over them.
Copyright Disclaimer under section 107 of the Copyright Act of 1976, allowance is made for “fair use” for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, education and research. Fair use is a use permitted by copyright statute that might otherwise be infringing.
Comments
Kirk really wasn't that sexist,and as for society changing for the better? Only in parts.
Troy Convers
2024-04-10 13:11:28 +0000 UTCDoing a rewatch and I skipped this one the first time. No difference now then. Somerville and Ross meets Star Trek! I don't mind Somerville and Ross in their own place and time, but the 23rd Century? A bit much!
Josef Schiltz
2023-11-20 05:27:16 +0000 UTCStar Trek started with Kirk being a brash sexist jerk. Thankfully TNG and onward the show becomes more open and accepting. Less Bigotry, Racist and Misogynist. Someone from GenZ watching TOS might not be willing to endure even a few episodes. Society is changing for the better. Watching the 2 of you react, putting the show in context of today's standards is actually refreshing!
Mr Kitty
2021-10-02 01:51:27 +0000 UTCThe stereotype itself is considered hateful and offensive. It depicts Irish people as stupid, backwards drunkards. That doesn't really change just because you don't apply it to everyone. I mean, it's not like it wouldn't be considered racist if you had both a normal black guy and someone walking around eating fried chicken and watermelon and talking about "massuh." Heck, you could argue Code of Honor is just that. You have Geordi, a normal black guy, but that didn't make the Ligosians any less racist for using the African savage stereotype. The general rule for people in general is that you avoid stereotypes of any group that has historically faced racism or prejudice. And Irish people were very much treated with prejudice for a long time. It seems quaint to us now, since we don't generally hear anti-Irish prejudice now, but pretty much every genuine Irish person I know still considers it hateful--including Colm Meaney (Chief Obrien) who hated this episode, referencing it to get them to change a hateful stereotype in a DS9 episode. It's a better idea to just never make a race of ethnic stereotypes. The general rule in racial or ethnic depictions is that you bring on someone of that race or ethnicity. They'll tell you what is and isn't offensive.
Bluefox
2021-05-22 07:19:03 +0000 UTCThe whole episode feels, to me, like written by a committee of about three people (at least). One wanted to tell the Worf/doctor story, one wanted to tell his/her private "Riker gets a girl" fantasy story and another always had a dream about a society of clones. A fourth person thought they could just mash them all up into an episode – and succeeded in providing a filler episode that in today's world would actually _rock_, because it'd provide so much controversy online. ;)
Patrick Armbruster
2021-02-18 21:10:13 +0000 UTCSorry, but I fail to understand all the hate that this episode receives. The Bringloidi are played up for comedic purposes, but how is it stereotyping all Irish people? The Mariposans are Irish too, aren't they? Also, to the claims of sexism, nobody was forced into any interaction or longterm arrangement, whether we're talking about the Bringloidi/Mariposans or Riker/Brenna O'Dell. Picard told Brenna at the end that it was entirely her choice of what to do and where to go, and we can presume the same applied to every individual in both societies. If I'm missing something, I welcome anyone to explain.
Raja
2021-01-29 03:49:08 +0000 UTCWatching the full length weeks later, and as a polyamorous person, I think for when this was filmed, they did the best they could with the concepts. Nowadays, it's obvious that it's patently sexist and not cool, but frankly, the world was obviously even more stringent about what you could and could not see on television in concept. Also, patriarchy. That said, I'm pretty sure that my parents prevented me from seeing this one as a child because I almost don't recognize it at all.
Bekah
2020-09-20 20:26:49 +0000 UTCAccording to commentary I've seen from TNG writers, at this point in time they were also having a hard time coming up with anything to write that Rodenberry would allow.
Josh G
2020-08-24 19:17:33 +0000 UTCCOVID came from animals, so cross-species infection is real. Presumably he leaves the ship at times that aren't in the episodes. It isn't the first time a crewmember contracted an illness while away.
John
2020-08-21 23:09:31 +0000 UTCThe title comes from an old Irish saying, literal gallows humor. "Up the long ladder. Down the short rope."
Robert Williams
2020-08-21 18:09:29 +0000 UTCI'm not sure; but, I'm guessing that the Worf/Pulaski interaction would fall into the realm of what's called "Piller Filler" Named for one of the writers Michael Piller. When they would come up short on the main story and needed to fill airtime, he'd generally come up with some little scene to fill it. Ironically, the Piller Filler is responsible for fleshing out the characters more than most of the A/B plots. :D
Robert Williams
2020-08-21 18:03:47 +0000 UTCBut, one thing, if you lived your entire life in a completely sterile environment, like star trek would seem to make possible, you've pretty much made a recipe for widespread autoimmune disorders. Maybe they let some reasonably safe viruses and microbes into the environment to keep their immune systems working.
Robert Williams
2020-08-21 17:49:26 +0000 UTCOne question I had never thought about until watching this show in the COVID era, how would Worf contract a Klingon virus in a spaceship that hasn't had any other klingons on it in months, especially with transporter biofilters
Robert Williams
2020-08-21 17:18:04 +0000 UTCWith regard to the prime directive, since the colonists are human, it doesn't apply. (But yes they are inconsistent about it in many other ways- though it is often acknowledged at various points in show) And yeah, there is a double standard with Riker vs Troy in relationships. Though that improves over time I feel. Overall not my favorite episode, but not as bad some others. The end of season 2 (basically after Q Who and Samaritan Snare) has always felt like the low point of the series for me. I would go so far as to say not a single episode of Season 3 is as weak as this one.
Jonny Moonsliver
2020-08-21 08:52:48 +0000 UTCAt 5:18 Riker is playing the part which Phil Farrand's "The Nitpicker's Guide for Next Generation Trekkers" refers to as "Cabbage Head" - A character who conveniently doesn't know what is being talked about in order for another character to provide exposition for the audience. And again at 33:48.
Graham Mills
2020-08-20 23:37:44 +0000 UTCWorse than The Royale?
John
2020-08-19 22:47:05 +0000 UTCYeah, the prime directive is held for cultures that are 'pre-warp'. They were not only human and used a warp ship to get there long ago, but they were also humans. There are a lot of human and alien cultures that know of warp and other civilizations but still live more simple and less technological lives. Thanks for watching another episode! Love it! This is why a lot of people ask you two to skip to season 3, but still, it's awesome that you guys are going from the start!
Weapon26
2020-08-19 17:17:14 +0000 UTCI’m not going to read all the comments but PLEASE tell me that someone made it very clear why the Prime Directive didn’t AT ALL apply to this situation in this episode. It’s pretty simple really. The colonists (both) WERE HUMAN.... you know, as in FROM EARTH. the Prime Directive only applies to dealings with other species and their cultures and civilizations. In fact, I wanted to say something last episode but just didn’t. In the last episode the Prime Directive didn’t apply because the alien ship they encountered called for help. This is a provision specifically built in to the Prime Directive. This was a species that had already discovered interstellar space travel and was obviously already aware that there are other species in the universe and the Enterprise was not offering any technology that they didn’t already have. Sure, they play fast and lose with the Prime Directive several times throughout the series but usually they do so knowingly. It’s not usually manipulated sake of being a simple plot device.
Brandon Scott
2020-08-19 10:25:37 +0000 UTCI think the Episode, that's Paulas second most dislike Episode is "Sub Rosa" in Season 7. It's a pretty bad Episode and disliked by many. (Me too.) But nowadays I can enjoy myself watching it embracing the bad and stupid of that Episode and laugh my way through this Episode. Think this is the Episode Paula's talking about.
Red Claw
2020-08-19 07:21:09 +0000 UTCAh yes, one of the lamentation episodes...to explain: I watch a very good Star Trek reviewer on youtube known as Lorerunner and he does ruminations unless it's a VERY bad episode, then he refers to them as lamentations. This is one of very few so far that he did for TNG (He's almost finished with Season 6 and posts new reviews weekly)
Chris Lane- Venturi 3D
2020-08-19 06:23:08 +0000 UTCOMG! I'm dying laughing over here. Katrina is so over Riker, lol. :)
Christine Ester
2020-08-19 04:22:03 +0000 UTCIn my house it was a contest to see who could say 'Space' when picard says Space, I see you Katrina, you're getting pretty good.
Kenneth
2020-08-19 03:26:18 +0000 UTCI’m glad to get past this episode. Without giving anything away, the remaining ones this season are better. I’m also a big Riker/Troi fan and hate seeing them with other people. Don’t worry...Troi definitely doesn’t sit by and let Riker have all the fun ;)
trylikeafool
2020-08-19 02:21:28 +0000 UTCWhen it comes to this episode, I just take the same approach as Picard and ‘bow to the absurd.’ Also Paula, going by your attempts at the start, I’m gonna throw out the obvious catchphrase suggestion of “Let’s engage.”
G0d_Ginrai
2020-08-19 02:14:25 +0000 UTCNo disrespect, but we're not here to watch the show, they are, and we are watching them react to it. When it's an episode I also want to watch, I sync it up to my Netflix, because we aren't paying them to give us Star Trek...
Brendon Waldron
2020-08-19 01:23:44 +0000 UTCThis is such a season 1 episode, and I mean that in a bad way.
Jarrod Wild
2020-08-19 00:58:18 +0000 UTCI would say they're not trying to say that all Irish people want to find a place where they can live like the Amish, just that this particular group does. The rest though, some extreme stereotyping.
Jarrod Wild
2020-08-19 00:54:03 +0000 UTCRe: the Prime Directive, it generally applies to pre-Warp civilizations, but there are a number of exceptions. It typically doesn't apply to human colonies, even "throwbacks" like the Bringloidians, because they're already aware of spaceflight. There's also a compassion exception in the cases of general distress signals being sent out to any spacefaring species, which we saw them skirt around earlier this season in Pen Pals. So the Bringloidians and Mariposans weren't covered 'cause they're humans. Even if they weren't humans, Picard would have been able to make an exception for the Bringloidians because their planet was in danger of getting cooked. (Mariposans, not being in imminent danger, would have been a tougher sell.)
Sìne Watson
2020-08-19 00:52:00 +0000 UTCThat would have been better.
Jared Abrahamson
2020-08-19 00:35:27 +0000 UTCI just wanted to apologize for part of the comment that I posted earlier (the one that appears to have been deleted). I thought I was just echoing something extremely vague that Paula had said to Katrina about the future, but maybe I worded something wrong. Or maybe Paula thought that someone could unthinkingly respond to my comment with details that would be spoilers. I don't know. Whatever the case may be, I apologize for any trouble I caused.
Jeff Seely
2020-08-19 00:35:21 +0000 UTCThis is an episode that I never think about. It's never referenced again (outside of the clip show). The universe is big so there has to be a planet of Irish stereotypes. It's a companion to the planet of Scottish stereotypes that we visit way later. (That episode might be the one Paula alludes to as her second least favorite)
Jared Abrahamson
2020-08-19 00:29:48 +0000 UTCDid you drop any hints of future episodes
Steven morgan
2020-08-18 23:54:30 +0000 UTCYeah this was so badly written it’s ridiculous. Kats points about polyamory were intelligent and interesting. I kind of love polly romance books. Got to admit when I saw her getting upset about the three husband thing I got nervous. Thought This was gonna get uncomfortable for me instead I thought that you gave a fair and important discussion. Meanwhile Paula I think I know what episode your thinking of. It’s my personal guilty pleasure as it’s so bad and no I think kat is gonna hate it 😂😂😂😂😂
Steven morgan
2020-08-18 23:21:04 +0000 UTCIt's a crap episode on many levels. It happens. No need to state otherwise. There is an interesting premise in there though. The question of if and if yes, how to help the second colony. Now it was conveniently solved by dumping the first colony on them, but what if there wasn't a first colony (with their horrible stereo types). Finding an answer to that dilemma should have been the bulk of the episode and maybe we would have ended up with a half decent episode.
Pickupthepieces76
2020-08-18 23:20:46 +0000 UTCRe: the prime directive, it's true it's not 100% consistent across Star Trek, but in the past few episodes you've wondered about it is consistent. There's basically two parts of the prime directive, either dealing with pre-warp or warp-capable civilizations. With pre-warp they have to avoid contact and not even let them know they exist because just finding out about the existence of aliens could cause massive repercussions. For warp-capable civilizations they can't interfere in their internal affairs unless asked for help and even if asked for help can't do it if it's one faction against another and their help would benefit one group and hurt another. In this episode, both those colonies left Earth a long time after contact with alien races and the development of warp drive, so they're warp-capable, and they asked for help. Last episode the pakleds are warp-capable and asked for help. In the episode with the one planet providing drugs for the other, the prime directive prohibited it because it would affect the balance of power between those two civilizations
CM
2020-08-18 21:36:00 +0000 UTCPossible, but they were a space faring race when they left earth, so that may be advanced enough. Even if they didn't maintain an advanced society, they know they came from a space fairing people.
John
2020-08-18 21:25:03 +0000 UTCThe look on O'Brien's face when the Irish Stereotypes beamed aboard....
Firefly24601
2020-08-18 20:58:15 +0000 UTCI was SO hoping Katrina would guess that episode was about the Enterprise senior staff playing the Snakes and Ladders board game in Data's quarters for the entire hour!
Firefly24601
2020-08-18 20:38:47 +0000 UTC"We've come of some pretty strong episodes." Oh, my sweet summer child. You have no idea what's coming. :) The only good scene was the Klingon Tea Ceremony. Hard to imagine this was written by the same person who wrote The Measure of a Man. It's nearly the Trek version of "Love and Monsters."
John
2020-08-18 20:36:56 +0000 UTCIt's TRUE Rick Berman came out on top in the struggle with Maurice Hurley for control of the series. Problem was Berman was no creative producer and over time that led to more conservative storytelling. That said he did produce some well made episodes as we shall see Plus his legacy is being reevaluated against some of the more current Trek series.
Mark Chrisco
2020-08-18 20:10:58 +0000 UTCMeh. This episode is skippable. Nothing important really going on and silly stereotypes throughout. I’ve watched it once and never again...
Does What It Do
2020-08-18 20:01:11 +0000 UTCWe all have moments in real life that lead to nothing, not everything has to lead to a story. Those societies are not alien societies and asked for help so it is not an apples to apples comparison of the last episode.
Andrew Ramos
2020-08-18 19:56:51 +0000 UTCNot quite sure about this episode. It does have that nice moment between Worf and Pulaski and it needed more O'Brien At the very least it does have a great BTS moment that you'll see on the S2 Blooper reel.
Bruce Bromley
2020-08-18 19:51:36 +0000 UTCI'm not sure what happened, but my comment seems to have vanished. Is this an issue that occasionally crops up on Patreon? I think this is the second time a comment of mine has disappeared into the ether.
Jeff Seely
2020-08-18 18:44:40 +0000 UTCST has always striven to portray a progressive future;devoid of stereotypes - which is why all Irish people of the 24th century will wear ragged green peasants clothes;have straw everywhere and speak in clichéd Hollywood 'this is how the Irish talk' dialogue. As for what the rest of the episode is like : it's not any better.
Ian Smith
2020-08-18 18:39:40 +0000 UTCStick with it, might not seem it but IT GETS BETTER I swear 😂 (the show I mean, this episode was frankly crap then and is still crap now)
Alistair Hodges
2020-08-18 18:28:39 +0000 UTCIt can be especially frustrating when Star Trek ventures into the weird casual racist/misogynistic territory because it is juxtaposed against the aspirational world of the franchise. This era was really a battle between the more progressive writers and cast who believed in the message of the show and Rick Berman (who took over after Roddenberry stepped down) who, by all accounts is a misogynistic, homophobic prick who went out of his way to sex up the franchise when he could and tried to make it as heteronormative as possible, against the active protests of cast and crew. The studio bears some responsibility as well but a great deal of the most frustrating aspects of 90's era Trek can be laid at the feet of Rick Berman.
Glen
2020-08-18 18:26:06 +0000 UTCI believe that once again since these people are humans who left earth the prime directive does not apply to the colonies
Rylee
2020-08-18 18:24:16 +0000 UTCRiker is like the Glenn Quagmire of TNG.
Geordie Joe
2020-08-18 18:20:18 +0000 UTCAs always, I think you are both great - really great, but I'm not sure about the new added steam punky framing around the window of the show you're watching. It's very distracting and could potentially hide important visual information in the episode for the rest of us. This episode finally makes Pulaski seem sweet and like a person you might want to hang with.
Darien Sills-Evans
2020-08-18 18:16:19 +0000 UTCPaula's smile at 34:23 got me chuckling
Colin 3of5
2020-08-18 18:10:39 +0000 UTCIIRC more than one writer left the series in protest of this episode
Mark Chrisco
2020-08-18 18:00:32 +0000 UTCTo quote The Simpsons "Stupid sexy Riker" 😂
Alistair Hodges
2020-08-18 17:34:07 +0000 UTCThis was always an interesting but good episode. So many things going on, including starting with a quick mystery to solve.
fcast17
2020-08-18 17:12:13 +0000 UTC
