Star Trek TNG Season 5 Review

Hasn’t this been reviewed to death by this point? Didn’t STTNG air in the mid 80s?

Nate H

Hi

محمود وجدي

There's some good moments in it, like Data talking about his own death. But in general, yeah they suck.

BN13

There is no objective quality in art

Josh (Target Audience)

Besides the chief of course

Evan Guthrie

My top 3 are Data, Word, Picard.

Evan Guthrie

Of course. However even with consensus on quality you will have differing feelings on appeal. There are other factors such as familiarity with the technique or era of the work (silent film, for example, generally increases in entertainment with greater context for both). Taste can be further cultivated, criteria can be even better understood, etc.

captveg

There are critaria of quality

Sam Langanke

Release order

Sam Langanke

Michael Rhine

Okay, now I'm imagining: Captain Picard: Admiral Plisken, welcome aboard the Enterprise. Admiral Plisken: **Lights Cigarette** "Call me Snake".

James Knight

I hate times arrow one and two.

Just another Red Shirt

It literally all comes down to personal taste

Josh (Target Audience)

That can sum it up well for me, I LOVED all of the Data in the past trying to "blend in" while building a machine in subterfuge. So many fun and hilarious moments.

Paul

haha yeah the technobabble tangents suck. but as much as you hate it- the actors hated it even more.

penoyer79

It's an interesting wrinkle to pre-2000s TV, especially for long-running shows with ensemble casts that needed to mostly reset the status quo for audiences that didn't catch every episode. The writers had to do their best to give all cast members their due while also serving a self-contained episodic story, and often that was just more easily done with a second storyline. In particular with the demands of churning out an episode every week over ~8 month period. I think on average it worked better for 25-minute sitcoms than 45-minute dramatic shows (Seinfeld has some amazing B-Plots, for example).

captveg

The issue I have with 'I, Borg' is that the actor and characterisation are far too sympathetic. So that undermines the moral dilemma. Put a Borg from seasons 2 or 3 in that role and things become more complicated.

Numinous2019

A lot of this does also come down to taste. I happen to be very tolerant of long narratives if character and/or story is compelling to me, and I am fine with long suspension of plot during those circumstances. Many of my favorite films are epics because of this.

captveg

It aired as one double length episode, so I imagine that's definitely how they'll view it.

captveg

Come on.

Wrestling With Gaming

You got me thinking about what Reg's perfect mate would look like, since she changes around who she's with. And now I think the real missed opportunity is missing what the 'perfect' mate is for each of our characters. Broccoli, Geordi, Miles? There would be a fascinating episode from O'Brien meeting his 'perfect mate' and having it be a personality type entirely unlike Keiko, but discovering in the end that what sets you on fire is not the same as what sets the foundation for a lifelong partnership where each needs to sacrifice, stand by you, and work towards planting trees you'll never sit in the shade of.

#MaxwellDidNothingWrong

The perfect mate…needed a lucky Barkley.

The ted berg

Its tough to tell a full story sometimes in just 45 minutes. This is no "City On The Edge" which I'm sure would have worked as a 2 partner, but it did have a mystery as a foundation and a rare Guinan is a part of the actual story sighting. If probably could have been done in 60 minutes, but there choice was either 45 or 90.

Ken R

Regarding part 1's... it's interesting cause I'm not THAT much older than you guys, but Part 1's have been part of my TV watching since I was a kid. Plenty of cartoons had them, like both Batman & Spider-Man The Animated Series had plenty of multi-parters, so I've always just accepted the "Aw c'mon!" feeling of a part 1 ending, even after lots of setup... I think I came to view it as "Well, if this story needs all this set up that takes a whole episode, the fallout in part 2 is gonna be crazy." Like a set up heavy part 1 promises an insane part 2. Which is not always the case. No spoilers on what Time's Arrow ends up being. But then the question is; Is an all set up Part 1 bad if Part 2 doesn't hold up its end of the bargain and deliver an outstanding pay off? Or is Part 1 at fault for not being interesting enough? Then there's also the question of how cohesively one should look at Part 1 & 2s. Sometimes they are written as one long story split up due to runtime, but other times Part 1 and 2 are separate entities, and you can usually tell as you watch. Infinity War and Endgame are one big story, but they are also wholly seperate films. BoBW are a lot closer related, and can go either way, but you can see the division there. In BSG, Kobol's Last Gleaming really is one double-length ep split in two. So there's no set formula on how to deal with Part 1's & 2's until you've seen both. All that said, I think I saw a LOT of TNG 2-parters as double-length edits, so WTF do I know?

Nolan

We’re moving out of the formulaic B-plot template. There might be some cases of it… but so long as I remember, the show is presently shifting to a singular plot, per episode.

Tom Occhipinti

Dudes, I gotta say… I always enjoyed “Time’s Arrow — Part 1” … But it’s difficult to argue with the points you make in your analysis. You’re right. I think Mark Twain’s 5-minute monologue was to flesh out his character as driven by the REAL Mark Twain’s personality, beliefs, and reputation. To make him flesh and blood in this episode. Though yes, that 5-minute scene brings the plot nowhere. (It wasn’t a full 5 minutes, though.) But you have to admit, you’ve enjoyed scenes throughout the series that highlight the CHARACTERS… but aren’t about PLOT. You’ve made the comment, “here comes the plot” when those scenes were interrupted. But yes, you make good points. As a writer, had I written that script … and you pointed out those issues prior to production…. I’d have to make changes to what I’d written.

Tom Occhipinti

If they're watching on DVD, it only has the full-length version, and they watched the full version for Encounter at Farpoint.

Nolan

You must be thinking of Galaxy Quest

Paul Hess

I said it elsewhere, but I think you guys felt it was padded out to make it a two parter. You probably felt al the stuff we saw could have been cut, whereas we were having fun with it. Not getting the literary irony with Clemons definitely hurt.

paultardspambot .

I think they saw it just as padding for the "real" episode to start when the whole crew goes back in time. They didn't like the fish out of water stuff and the literary irony with Clemens. I think for a lot of us we had fun watching Data set up in the 19th century, but to them it was probably all padding to make it a two parter.

paultardspambot .

it still shows a bit here and there

paultardspambot .

When you guys start DS9 you should watch the pilot as the two hour pilot. When they split it into two epsiodes, two scenes get deleted, and there's one especially it would be a shame to miss.

paultardspambot .

Can we tell them about the episode where the crew visits Gilligan’s Island. That scene between Guinan and the Skipper is wild.

Tom Occhipinti

Looking forward so much to watching season 6 and DS9 with you.

Michael Metrick

Part 1 GOAT

Josh (Target Audience)

Have you all noticed that Troi’s initial “alien” accent has all but disappeared by this point in the series?

Lwaxana’s Poolboy

I think it helps that WE already know what happens in Part 2. That colors our opinions of all these Part 1s. It's inevitable, because it all blurs together for us.

tyranusfan

Talking about Part 1s, I have always liked Infinity War more than Endgame. :D Just wanted that out there.

tyranusfan

Always pay attention to Alex' predictions.

Sam Langanke

"Unification" has an excellent "B" plot with Riker doing his own investigation.

ellmo

Listening to more now. The structure of A Plot/B Plot was the worst thing about the show. I can't think of a single good episode that had a B Plot offhand. "On the next Star Trek: The Next Generation: The ship is on the brink of blowing up, but Data has a ballet class. It's an exciting TNG you won't want to miss!"

Ken R

Time's Arrow is solid, and way better than a lot of TNG. I'm trying to remember the details now, but it starts with a mystery of how Data was in SF 400 years ago and what did Guinan know she ain't saying. Data gets thrown back and stranded in time where he meets Guinan and and famous locals. Then the end is the crew goes to rescue him. It sounds like a solid premise to me. The cliffhanger is weak but the story needed more the 40 minutes. I'm impressed the show actually put so much thought into a plot that makes sense and is well constructed with some semblance of stakes.

Ken R

I used to think Season 5 was the best season.... but I don't think it is. A couple of my FAVORITE episodes are in Season 5... but I think Season 6 is better... and the best of the series. Season 7 dips a little.... maybe to Season 3 or 4 levels... but not all the way down to Season 1 or 2.

Tom Occhipinti

I’d have to watch again

Josh (Target Audience)

Yeah, I want to give the guys nothing. Not even seemingly innocuous comments. In the s5 review, Josh has already picked up on some things b/c we couldn't shut up about (though not necessarily from this season). I know, we're just being enthusiastic b/c we love so much of this stuff, but I also don't want to do anything that tilts their expectation, one way or the other.

JMB

There more of "those" moments that we can count, Paul. LOL. Per season, too. And still many more to come.

Rhett Coates

Could be, I wonder if you rewatched it if those good moments would pop up (currently suppressed by the bad memories of Faux Twain?) Another one where Data goes down and describes what he sees on the other side, damn that scene really creeped me out on my first watch. Didn't land for you guys?

Paul

The difference of opinion probably falls on “so many good moments”

Josh (Target Audience)

Just to touch on why I (and I think a lot of others) love Time's Arrow P1 so much, it's as simple as having so many good moments just for their own sake. Picard & Guinan, Data & the people from the past (the scene of him playing Poker alone is pure gold to me because I like his counterplay with Marc Alaimo. Also, the mystery aspect is engaging at least for me, especially the initial moments where they find Data's head on Earth. I have trouble understanding not liking it at all, when there are so many individual good scenes and very few bad ones (I can see how Mark Twain's character could be grating even if you know who he's supposed to be). Not to mention the vibe of it being horror-esc, right up both of your alleys there. I guess, "wasting our time" would be subjective, in this case it is building to something more obviously, but even if it didn't, I think Seinfeld-style episodes where nothing really happens can still be entertaining. It only works if you love the characters, but you do. It wasn't the best two-parter setup compared to Redemption 1 or Best of both worlds 1, but hating it? Or bored? Head scratcher over here. Enjoyed the discussion overall though. I'd agree S5 is more of a rollercoaster with the greatest peaks and heaviest dips.

Paul

One of the hardest torturous accomplishments for us fans was keeping our mouths shut when Michelle Forbes first showed up as a guest character in Half a Life, maybe complimenting her acting without saying much more or letting on any future roles!

Paul Hess

And I didn't say that you guys said it didn't make sense! Aha!

JMB

We didn’t say it didn’t make sense

Josh (Target Audience)

More pumped for DS9 than ever after hearing you guys talk about what you're looking for. There's definitely a case to be made comparing it to Andor.

THE LORE!!!

Not to wade into the whole SW thing, but one of the things that was fun about the (now) Legends stuff is just how wild and varied the storytelling was. I'm pretty sure, ultimately, LF had final say, but it was all a part of this massive galaxy. Now, there were some terrible, terrible garbage out there, too, but people tend to remember the stuff they like... or, well, maybe the internet has changed that.

JMB

Picard taking the choice away from Wesley makes sense, though? If you're a Starfleet officer and you suspect or even know there was wrongdoing that broke established rules, then not going to the proper people would make Picard negligent.

JMB

Josh's reply to the Riker question reminded me of Demolition Man where Stallone tells Bullock, "Blow him... AWAY!"

JMB

I think a lot of post s3 come down to the "in between" episodes that aren't necessarily a consensus favorite or classic. As usual, you guys surprised me with a lot that you guys graded B or A (your S's were pretty much mine as well) that I thought were maybe just passable, ok episodes I might watch if it had come on tv during the post-original airing reruns and same with the episodes you guys didn't like that I did. Over the years, I've gone back and forth as to which season is my favorite. Season 3 has the BoBW pt1 and some S tiers, but then s5 has Inner Light or s4 has this or that and, b/c of that, I've never been able to pinpoint my favorite season though... I was going through it a little earlier and I may say that s6 might be my #1 b/c it has my favorite TNG episode. As I always say, it's fun to hear you guys break down what it is you liked or didn't as well as all the other fans here b/c that's what makes this entire endeavor fun. To hear what does and doesn't work and why others think that and if that does or doesn't sway my own thoughts on it.

JMB

Perfect! I cant sleep so this is great timing!

Column Meanie