Target Audience - PATRON TAKES

I just realised maybe i shouldn't have mentioned David Warner being in The Undiscovered Country... Alex sees this, gets PTSD and changes his ranking from S to E😂😂😂

jon bolton

2025-04-15 05:27:43 +0000 UTC

Just what Josh and Alex need before meeting a new crew, an arrogant new Captain, and Picard being captured by Cardassians😂

jon bolton

2025-04-15 05:18:42 +0000 UTC

He's kind-of a villain. He is ordered to throw the status quo of the show into total disarray. He doesn't like how Picard does (did) things, and he doesn't like Riker at all. He doesn't listen to his crew and does not respect them as officers or subordinates.

Jovet

2025-04-15 03:32:50 +0000 UTC

Maxwell would have detonated the mines without a warning because Maxwell knew the Federation was already at war.

#MaxwellDidNothingWrong

2025-04-12 16:12:37 +0000 UTC

I would argue he failed his first test by balking at implementing the four shift rotation, which even if not meant to be insubordinate was still a failure to carry orders. He absolutely deserved to be relived of duty based on the disrespect he showed his captain even if it was in private (if it counts as being in private as Troi was also present).

Loot Narsbaar

2025-04-12 02:49:37 +0000 UTC

It’s the second 😀

tyranusfan

2025-04-11 20:46:25 +0000 UTC

Oh! For some reason, I thought I remember them saying that they had seen that movie a while ago. If that's not the case, my mistake

Deep Red

2025-04-11 19:55:36 +0000 UTC

Spoilers for future Trek mate, I'm not sure if they've seen ST2009 so may be worth editing this out 👍🏼

The Ninth Doctor

2025-04-11 19:52:59 +0000 UTC

Jellico is (early) Season 1 Picard. And he gets it done. 👍🏼

The Ninth Doctor

2025-04-11 19:51:39 +0000 UTC

'Alex and Josh - I prefer a certain... formality while on the channel. I'd appreciate it if you both wore standard uniform while you're reacting.'

The Ninth Doctor

2025-04-11 19:49:42 +0000 UTC

Ahh, the Cardassians!

Matt G Cowart

2025-04-10 23:35:48 +0000 UTC

How do you feel about this being the last TNG story before you transition to watching DS9 for a while?

Ally Roth

2025-04-09 14:24:54 +0000 UTC

What I love here is Captain Jellico isn’t a villain at all, just a different Captain with a different command style. It’s effectively Kirk vs. Picard, in that Jellico, like Kirk, was more “SHOOT HIM!!!” vs. Picard who favors diplomacy above all. Fun Fact: Captain Picard was supposed to say “Set course for Deep Space Nine” in a scene long crossover for DS9 for them getting transport, but due to the scheduling, DS9 hadn’t premiered yet, so that made very little sense. Instead we got random name planet

The Game Show Reviewer

2025-04-07 16:16:09 +0000 UTC

This is a real world Military approach as it was found that 8 hours at Actions Stations/ Battle Stations is far less effective than 6 hours, with the increased stress and tension causing fatigue to set in quicker leading to more mistakes/ accidents/ similar. Given that the ship was on an exploratory and scientific mission prior to the rendevous with the Cairo, and Jellico ordering power be removed from those facilities, that would leave a number of Starfleet personnel free to be reassigned. Obviously they wouldn't be experts in their new positions, but Jellico is preparing for combat and potentially a new war with the Cardassians, so those personnel would be changing roles sooner or later as science and exploration would become irrelevant to the new mission profile of the Flagship.

James Knight

2025-04-01 22:09:55 +0000 UTC

I never took it as everyone getting a 6-hour work day. It could also be 6 hours on, 6 hours off, rinse & repeat for each crew member, meaning you get 6 hrs to sleep and 6 for leisure time in a 24 hour period. There's no dialogue saying they've increased crew capacity, so if you go from three 8 hour shifts to four 6 hour shifts, who magically staffs that additional 6 hour delta shift? In fact, with there previously being references to "day shift" and "night watch," one could think that, ordinarily, you'd get 12 hours on and 12 hours off, each and every day (assuming a 24-hour day cycle and not a 26-hour cycle like some planets have.)

Matt Everkoul

2025-04-01 19:40:53 +0000 UTC

I signed up for this Patreon specifically for this episode. This and its lead up to DS9 are peak TV, and its perfect culmination of facing "what Star Trek is" versus what it seeks to be. The Cardassians are great villains. Jellico is a great foil to the enterprise crew. Easiest S of my life, can't wait for your Deep Space 9 reactions too.

cricketlenny

2025-04-01 19:30:49 +0000 UTC

I’m sure I read somewhere that most of Jelichos changes were things requested by the cast Like getting rid of the fish tank

Andrew Duffy

2025-03-31 20:48:06 +0000 UTC

I wouldn't want Jellico as my captain or boss, but I do like that the episode doesn't treat him as "the villain." He has his method which at the end of the day did work, and he is the one who leads the Enterprise to rescuing Picard.

AdmiralMurphy

2025-03-31 13:40:00 +0000 UTC

The first duty of every Starfleet Officer is to wear a uniform, Troi!

Banes

2025-03-31 13:29:04 +0000 UTC

I really enjoy this two-parter. You get some Cardassian background, which is really, really good to have, and you also get Troi in a uniform, which was something Sirtis had requested to be allowed to wear a uniform for YEARS, and they finally granted her request. I think it makes her a more real character instead of Lieutenant Commander Cleavage.

John

2025-03-31 13:03:42 +0000 UTC

Troi looks good in a uniform 😍 David Warner took over the role of Gul Madred on three days' notice. He could not learn his lines in that short time, so he had to use cue cards. He said, "Every line I said, I actually was reading it over Patrick Stewart's shoulder or they put it down there for me to do it. After I finished it, I thought it worked, which obviously it did.".Patrick Stewart prepared for the scenes of torture by reviewing tapes provided by Amnesty International. He agreed to perform the first torture scene naked, but only as long as it was on a closed set.Due to budget considerations, a bigger on-screen confrontation between the Enterprise and the Cardassians in the nebula had to be scrapped.

empirejeff

2025-03-26 21:33:47 +0000 UTC

Assuming the events of "The Wounded" happened differently, I wonder how this episode would have turned out if it was Captain Ben Maxwell (not Jellico) who was made captain of the Enterprise...

The Ninth Doctor

2025-03-24 13:08:24 +0000 UTC

Jellicoe was a military commander, Jellicoe did nothing wrong. whip the crew into combat readiness if anything the enterprise crew acted unprofessional, they were going into a combat situation and needed to be prepared, instead they threw a tantrum because Jellicoe wasn't their real dad, i think in a more peaceful setting they could have adapted but time was not on their side. but what do you guys think was he a good captain?

Dark Kronis

2025-03-23 19:23:07 +0000 UTC

That’s not quite accurate…with Barclay he was dealing with an officer who was always late to his shift and did only enough work to coast through. With Ro, he had a problem subordinate with a bad reputation and a nasty chip on her shoulder. I’m sure Riker is more than willing to work well with anyone, given his nature…but he also expects them to meet him half way.

Raphael Gaytan

2025-03-22 05:14:55 +0000 UTC

"It was clear from the start that Jellico was not a fan of the man, and that he was not willing to give Riker or anyone else in the crew “a chance”." Isn't that just Riker getting a taste of his own medicine? Because if he doesn't like someone he treats them like crap, he had zero interest in giving Barclay or Ro a chance, others did that.

Phillip Grischa

2025-03-21 18:09:16 +0000 UTC

"Jellico's notion that there isn't time to give the crew to do their job is spot on. It wasn't that he "didn't give them adjustment time" that was the problem, it was that he didn't lead (inspire) the crew to want to adjust." An inspiring leader is obviously better and more effective than one who isn't but the Enterprise crew is supposedly "the finest in starfleet", if that's true they should be able to do it regardless of Jellico being inspiring or not because surely they understand what's at stake.

Phillip Grischa

2025-03-21 18:04:58 +0000 UTC

Nothing Riker did was okay, let's be real. He acted like a child because he didn't get what he wanted, completely unprofessional and unacceptable.

Phillip Grischa

2025-03-21 17:56:06 +0000 UTC

I dont know why but i always have to think about the celebrity deathmatch between Stalllone and Schwarzenegger. "Stallone, do you know where you are? Are you ok? How many Fingers am i holding up?" I know it's Stupid but my brain is like that. Besides. One of the best Episodes/2parter for me with A/S rating for 10/11

ComMix

2025-03-21 13:56:43 +0000 UTC

Jellico asked everyone and everyones Hairdresser to fly the Shuttle. Only then he crouched to Riker not asking him without having the cheek to speak down on him. Not saying everything Riker did was ok.

ComMix

2025-03-21 13:47:07 +0000 UTC

Didn't grow on me. He gave Riker no room to do his job. Brushed over his concerns and did not listen to any advice from his Senior Staff. No, I am the god of this vessel and only I know what is right or wrong. And Riker did not die on the 4 shift hill.

ComMix

2025-03-21 13:31:52 +0000 UTC

Patrick Stewart is the GOAT

brian

2025-03-20 22:51:00 +0000 UTC

Captain Jellico was a hardass, but that’s life in the military. Geordi & Riker needed to remember that they are in a military organization, suck it up, and do their job. And Riker was borderline insubordinate.

startrekiborg

2025-03-20 15:36:17 +0000 UTC

Episode one is so-so. Episode two is top five in the franchise. I think the stuff with Picard is so obviously good that there isn't a whole lot that needs to be said about it. Patrick Stewart has an all time performance, and David Warner as his opponent also gives one of the best performances of his career, something that reminds in quality (not in the plot) of another top, top tier performance from another famous character actor in an early DS9 episode. The stuff on the Enterprise is another matter and it is also engaging and inspires genuine emotion. The question of how to view Jellico is a controversial one, with fans usually - from what I've seen - being fairly split on the issue. To me, the most compelling case I've read was from a former military officer who went in some detail in to a variety of reasons why Jellico's command style and choices would be quite harmful. I can't adequately explain his entire line of reasoning in a comment so I won't try, but suffice it to say he made a very good case that making so many rapid changes mixed with the my way or the highway attitude is something he had seen in the real military and it tended to end badly. Still, even with a character that inspires such strong negative emotions as Jellico does from so many in the audience, he still manages to be a character that at the end of the day you can't help but respect at least a little bit and comes through when he needs to. It is all around a stellar episode, one that is at least in contention for the best that the entire franchise has to offer.

Shane Coombs

2025-03-20 02:07:32 +0000 UTC

Patrick Steward hits it out of the park, again. And David Warner, RIP, is no slouch.

startrekiborg

2025-03-18 02:15:12 +0000 UTC

For those who haven't served, the chain of command exists for a reason. Maybe your commander is too busy to explain everything, or has intel he can't discuss, or maybe is just tired. In any case, it becomes your responsibility to help them by enacting the plan. Questioning everything, dragging your feet, and fomenting dissent only serves to distract your commander's limited attentions -- to the detriment of everyone. Riker expected this of Shelby, same as Jelico of Riker

#MaxwellDidNothingWrong

2025-03-16 02:23:05 +0000 UTC

A fantastic two-parter. This comes in my top 20 episodes of TNG. Obviously both an S, though i prefer the second part. The Cardassian Picard faces is played by the fantastic actor, David Warner. He appeared in The Final Frontier as the human 'hostage' and The Undiscovered Country as the Klingon, Gorkon that Kirk was accused of assassinating. David Warner has starred in other great films such as The Omen, and In The Mouth Of Madness. Additionally, the reason Captain Jellico ordered Troi to wear a proper uniform is because Marina Sirtis had requested that she wear one.

jon bolton

2025-03-15 05:20:13 +0000 UTC

A lot of people hated Jellico, but there is much time be said for having the right person in the right place at the right time. Jellico is a GOOD captain, and he was who this mission needed to have taking lead. He wasn't who we wanted, and he did things differently than we liked, but he was who we needed.

Cobheran

2025-03-13 19:35:54 +0000 UTC

As I imagine most people do, I really love this two-parter. Really interesting, well-executed premise with a memorable guest captain, a memorable villain, real tension in both story lines, and some provocative moments. Shout out to David Warner's great performance as Gul Madred, along with Ronny Cox as Captain Jellico. And yes, I think Jellico can get a bad wrap because he does make some good points and proves to have merit, however I would point out he didn't have to be so difficult, short, and abrasive with the crew. Regardless, it was certainly entertaining watching him shake things up.

Forbidden Donut

2025-03-13 19:19:05 +0000 UTC

Fair enough. At the very least, Jellico should have trusted his XO. And not denigrated him to his previous commanding officer. There’s no scenario you can muster to justify that.

Raphael Gaytan

2025-03-13 16:05:06 +0000 UTC

Add me to the "I like Jellico" list. I like anyone giving the crew a little kick in the rear to maybe appreciate what they've got in Picard. Jellico does have a point that with this mission he doesn't have time right now to let the crew get used to him. Long term, I bet he would. But since they don't have time for that right now, the crew should have to deal with it. There is a military side to Starfleet and sometimes you have to just deal with it! But Riker is also kind of right about him.

Joe Concepts

2025-03-13 15:31:27 +0000 UTC

It is is very easy to spot those who never served in these comments. The chain of command exists specifically for situations like these where there isn't time for anyone to give anyone a chance, and it shouldn't be expected. You switch off that part of your brain and snap to. Lives depend on it. Jelico didn't take over as the shift supervisor for the warehouse you drive a forklift in. He's taking command of the USS Arizona with Honalulu on alert for Japanese incursions in early December 1941. The man wants a 4 shift rotation, get him a four shift rotation. There isn't time for a honeymoon and you shouldn't be expecting one.

#MaxwellDidNothingWrong

2025-03-13 07:48:47 +0000 UTC

DS9:S1/2 is WAAAAAY stronger than people mis-remember it. Much how like people bafflingly underrate S1/2 of TNG

#MaxwellDidNothingWrong

2025-03-13 07:36:53 +0000 UTC

Jellico did nothing wrong.

TomEmilioDavies

2025-03-12 08:29:19 +0000 UTC

Aaaaaah, yes. Finally. Captain Jellico has been a very polarizing figure these last 30 years, inspiring a lot of debate! This was a very welcome shaking-up of things.

Ian Westcott

2025-03-11 23:03:53 +0000 UTC

I do think his 3 to 4-shift change actually was unreasonable and ridiculous. Otherwise, he was abrasive, but good, and it was GREAT to see a competent captain with a totally different leadership style that clashed with the crew. But the shift change... there isn't any justifying that. -_- It literally was change for change's sake, which can be okay, but changing things up just for fun is a foolish thing to do when you are about to go into a very stressful battle situation. No, a 4-shift change would not have had the crew executing any better, and there's a very high likelihood of mistakes occurring with such a sudden and radical change. You want consistency at a time like that, not sudden shifts because you think you might get 1% increased efficiency or whatnot.

Ian Westcott

2025-03-11 23:03:04 +0000 UTC

JLP: "And if you're not down with that, I got four words for ya!"

KevinH

2025-03-11 14:30:07 +0000 UTC

Jellico's notion that there isn't time to give the crew to do their job is spot on. It wasn't that he "didn't give them adjustment time" that was the problem, it was that he didn't lead (inspire) the crew to want to adjust.

Jovet

2025-03-11 06:55:34 +0000 UTC

Also, if I'm working a 9 to 5 I want Picard, I do not want Jellico. If I'm oging to war... well I also want Picard. However, if Jellico keeps me alive I'll put up with him too.

Loot Narsbaar

2025-03-11 02:24:42 +0000 UTC

Jellico: "I see why he's only a first officer." What Picard Should Have Said: "He defeated the Borg as captain of this ship and saved all of our asses. Without him there is no Federation today."

Loot Narsbaar

2025-03-10 23:03:12 +0000 UTC

My view could be hindered by knowing what's to come, but it seems like the Enterprise crew does not truly respect the nature of the Cardassian threat they are about to encounter and that's why I remember Jellico being right and them being awfully whiny about following orders for people who are quasi-military officers (in a similar way as when Kurn was first officer).

Loot Narsbaar

2025-03-10 22:56:09 +0000 UTC

Definitely reads that way! I fixed it!

Column Meanie

2025-03-10 21:12:41 +0000 UTC

Small correction: Lemec was played by John Durbin; Madred was played by David Warner. You might know this already, but the sentence order can be read as you mixing them up.

Kristopher

2025-03-10 20:39:17 +0000 UTC

Honestly, I think Jellico is a decent Captain. Bit of a hardass but he knows what needs to be done.

SetsunaYuki

2025-03-10 19:36:33 +0000 UTC

Did a quick rewatch after reading the comments about Jellico and Riker, and they're both wrong and both right is the issue. Jellico needs to give the crew time to do their job, including Riker, and redirecting 1000 people from a exploratory vessel to combat is a massive job, and will take more than a few hours to get into gear. I think if Riker had said "apologies Captain, it'll take an extra shift or two to change personal schedules" and pointed out a Galaxy class is a much different ship to an Excelsior class. After that though, Jellico writes Riker off and doesn't let him do his job, instead using Data. Riker otherwise does his job, and simply states Kellico doesn't want to discuss things with him, which is true. He only gets in his face about Picard not getting legal protection, and being Petty at the End with the shuttle bit. Jellico is right though that the ship needs to be prepped for full combat operations, and they need to get shit done, however it should have been here's the things we need to get done in x number of days, talk to the Senior Staff, and then they could pull science crews to Engineering positions temporarily, and work a schedule and change the duty Roster at the same time. It really felt like new manager syndrome, changing things for the sake of change, and not listening or working with people in place to make it work correctly.

Thomas Cole

2025-03-10 16:54:37 +0000 UTC

can't agree, after one issue, Jellico writes Riker off, and watching doing a quick rewatch, Riker follows orders and does his job the whole way through, till he is relieved. He doesn't like Jellico, but he does his job. he only disagrees fully on disavowing Picard who was sent on a mission by Starfleet Command, which is bullshit, and he does it in private, like he should.

Thomas Cole

2025-03-10 16:42:07 +0000 UTC

That's probably right, given a proper shakedown, they probably would have got along.

Thomas Cole

2025-03-10 16:37:18 +0000 UTC

This is my favorite depiction of torture in a fictional story. Chain of Command shows it for what it really is. Unreliable, psychological, and more about the torturer exerting power over his victim. The battle of wills between the two men is just so gripping. David Warner reportedly had to fill in for Gul Madred only a few days before shooting. Despite having to read his lines off of cue cards behind Patrick Stewart, he turns in my absolute favorite guest performance in the whole series. He is so chilling and cruel, yet charismatic.

Deep Red

2025-03-10 14:53:40 +0000 UTC

Someone else had some interesting insight on torture shown in the second episode which I have not seen come up in the comments yet, so to spur on some further discussion, I am going to copy/pasta their words here: quote start "//-- After being captured, Picard is made to suffer both physically and mentally at the hands of his interrogator. And in the room there seem to be four lights. But the interrogator demands that Picard answers correctly and truthfully that there are actually five lights in the room. And all Picard has to do is to acknowledge this lie and his torture will end. And yet this scene is considered to be one of the most popular scenes from the entirety of Star Trek--it's definitely within the top ten, it's a memorable scene. You can find memes of it on the internet and you have to wonder why. Why do people resonate so much with Picard suffering? Because there have been other scenes involving torture in media and none of them are as popular as this. None of them except for one: a scene from George Orwell's book. Now, Orwell was an author that was heavily critical of authoritarianism. He criticized the Nazi party and then he criticized the Soviet Union for its use in similar tactics. In the Nineteen Eighty-Four book we have the famous scene where after similar torture both physical and mental the protagonist is asked to answer how much is two plus two, and he is expected to say five. Now the reason for this is to engage in doublethink. It is the ability of a totalitarian ruling party or, in this case, someone with power over someone else to exert such control that they can even make people admit obvious falsehoods. Sensory evidence or, in this case of the novel analytic truth, is internalized as insanity and external statements are internalized as true, even when the subject isn't actually insane. To quote from George Orwell: "In the end the Party would announce that two and two made five, and you would have to believe it. It was inevitable that they should make that claim sooner or later: the logic of their position demanded it. Not merely the validity of experience, but the very existence of external reality was tacitly denied by their philosophy. The heresy of heresies was common sense. And what was terrifying was not that they would kill you for thinking otherwise, but that they might be right. For, after all, how do we know that two and two make four? Or that the force of gravity works? Or that the past is unchangeable? If both the past and the external world exist only in the mind, and if the mind itself is controllable-what then?" How can we distinguish reality? And I'm pretty sure most people in their day-to-day lives encountered a similar situation where they think that they know the truth based on their personal observations and their personal convictions but they were placed in a position where someone else had power over them so they had to lie in order not to upset the powerful. Maybe you were a kid that happens to be gay and lived in a very conservative household so you had to lie to your parents in order for them not to find out. Maybe you're aware of a story where a journalist used to work for the mainstream media and he didn't like the fact that he wanted to criticize the government but corporate wanted him to stop. Maybe you're like one of the people living in China who were talking about covid in the early stages but the government would suppress them and make them disappear. Whatever the case, there are situations where a person knows something is true or at least is convinced that is true but a more powerful entity wants them to be quiet about it. And even worse: a more powerful entity wants you to say the exact opposite of what you think. And because of this, I think, is the reason that this scene is so popular; why this particular scene resonates with so many people. Because on the first aspect of it, it does seem harmless enough. I mean you could just say, "Okay, there's five lights," and be done with it. But I think it's the moral integrity that is being crushed here--is the slippery slope that the person has to undertake the moment they lie--and the exercise itself is a lot more complex than it initially seems. Gul Madred could have asked Picard to say that the table is round or to say that he is not a human but a fish. Instead he asks him to talk about the lights. From Picard's perspective, being in a dark room with those shining lights on top of you, they must have been somewhat painful. It is easy to imagine that the lights would have been very bright and emanating heat, and for a person in the weak state of Picard it might have been difficult to look at them. And when you look at light long enough you start to confuse them. Are there really four lights? Did you actually remember correctly? What if you're wrong? What if there's actually five lights like you are being told? And this is the purpose of the experiment: to make the person doubt; to make the person think that they can never arrive to the correct conclusion by themselves, and as such they need to trust themselves in a much higher power that has the ability to decide truth from fiction. Because allowing the people to think for themselves is dangerous. Occasionally people might arrive to the wrong conclusions and those wrong conclusions can affect society at large, so we cannot allow random people to think for themselves. Random people need to listen to power; they need to listen to Gul Madred because only he can have the right answers. And I think this is the core of the experiment and why it is so diabolical. Because you see, Madred, just like myself, could have gotten Picard to simply say that there are five lights. All you would need is some wire clamps and electricity, attach it to Picard, and make him experience pain, and I would say: "Until you say that there are five lights the pain will not stop," and eventually every single person will crack just out of the sense of self-preservation. But I don't think Madrid wanted that. I don't think he wanted to just apply physical pain on the subject in order for the subject just to say the safe word and be able to escape that predicament. I think what Madred actually wanted was for the subject to genuinely doubt themselves; to make the subject believe that he is incapable of critical thought; that no matter what what he says cannot be verified as true as such; he should only listen to Madred and allow Madred's judgment to be the judgment that dictates how Picard views reality. And it's also a slippery slope because the initial question is harmless enough: "How many lights do you see?" At the end of the day it doesn't really matter--is it four, is it five, that's not the point,--the point, as I mentioned before, is to make the person doubt their senses; and, the second point is that once you take that first step, once you're willing to admit that you are incapable in deciding whether there's four or five lights, if you can't do even this trivial task, what about more difficult tasks? What about when you're thinking whether or not the Federation is righteous? Whether or not you're thinking your job in the Federation is good? Should the federation exist at all? That is where the heart of the experiment lies: If you can't accurately discern whether or not there's four or five lights, how can you say that the Cardassians are evil? I mean, your mental processes are unable to discern simple things so how can they discern much more complex--not to mention philosophical--mechanisms? And this is the complete core of the experiment: It's to make the individual a complete lemming. And it is something that has been done in history by authoritarian regimes because it's almost perfected to a science. It's almost perfected to an art. The moment you get a person to be unable to make decisions that are small in nature is the moment that you have enslaved that person. Because in our day-to-day lives we need to constantly make decisions, and if we can't trust the decision process that we're making, we need someone else to make them for us. And I think that at a deep subconscious level most people understand this is the essence of that scene which is why it resonated so well with the public. --//" quote end. Others have commented before that Patrick Stewart and screenwriter Frank Abatemarco both consulted with Amnesty International to ensure the torture scenes were realistic and accurate. Maybe the text I pasted above were not word-for-word the exact intent of the team on the episode, but I believe they did intend the general sense of what the dude was communicating in the words above. And given the time this was made, in our post-cold war allegory time period that Alex and Josh absolutely love to see (lol-joking) having it all laid out in such a plain and brutal way is very heart breaking. I know that it immobilized me the first time I saw it in a similar way that The Inner Light did to the both of you. The irony of me sharing someone else's thoughts and words rather than my own for this subject is not lost on me.

Kristopher

2025-03-10 11:59:48 +0000 UTC

Jellico is an antagonist of sorts for our regular characters, but he is not the villain of these two episodes. If it were a regular thing they did all the time I would probably get annoyed by it, but having an ally/friend who also fits this sort of role can be a very fun story element if it doesn't get overplayed. Now David Warner's character on the other hand is a very fascinating villain.

Kristopher

2025-03-10 10:37:44 +0000 UTC

My opinion of Jellico has changed over the years. Sure his style is different, but he never asked anything unreasonable of the crew. Riker comes off as a whiney cry baby. Starfleet is an organization with militaristic traditions, and when your CO gives you orders, shut up and do it. Love the insights we get into Cardassian history in Part 2 and Gul Lemek is the slimiest looking Cardassian ever. Bravo to David Warner for his portrayal of Gul Madred, his casting came a few days before filming so he didn’t have time to learn his lines. Even in SD his line reading was obvious. I blame the director for that one. A crime Stewart didn’t get an Emmy for this. Rated S for “Sir Patrick was robbed”

Column Meanie

2025-03-10 01:58:36 +0000 UTC

Team Jellico here. Is he a dick? Sure. But with a purpose. He motivates the crew. Gets the ship in order. Works over the Cardassians.

Kyle Stewart

2025-03-10 01:52:20 +0000 UTC

By the time these episodes aired on British TV (every Wednesday, BBC2, 6pm). I was ALMOST what you might call a "trekkie", managing to catch every episode from "I, Borg" to "Realm of Fear". It was only within the last 5 years, when watching reruns on TV, that I caught something I'd never noticed before; Picard singing the French song "Sur le Pont d'Avignion (l'on y danse, l'on y danse)" in his attempt to distract himself from the pain caused by the torture device. That is such a Picard thing to do. I don't know who added that into the script, or if it was Patrick Stewart himself who did an ad lib, but kudos to whoever it was! (The only reason I know that song is because it appeared on a VHS tape that my parents bought for my younger brother, to help him learn French)

Ee'char

2025-03-10 00:12:47 +0000 UTC

Troi finally gets to dress like a real member of the crew and her uniform is far more flattering to her than her skintight catsuits. Marina wanted this for a long time. I like Part 2 much more than Part 1 but both are great. And P-Stew really did that scene nude on a closed set. What a trooper. A "Best of the Best" ranking from me for both parts.

KatWithAttitude

2025-03-09 21:21:44 +0000 UTC

Data looks great in red

Loot Narsbaar

2025-03-09 18:23:31 +0000 UTC

I do think there’s a lot to like. And Jovet, I know. But there are strings of mid episodes, overlapping with mid tng. So I believe a little patience is needed until DS9 really finds its voice.

Sainjl

2025-03-09 12:41:36 +0000 UTC

I must be in a minority who likes early DS9. S2 is great

Darren Seal

2025-03-09 12:21:11 +0000 UTC

Yeah, Crusher's involvement seems like a contrivance just to setup up the ultimatum Picard is given during his interrogation in the second episode: His "you can go but we will do to her what we've done to you" lie which turns gets Picard to back around and sit back in the chair. I give it a pass though because that question being posed to Picard of saving her is very much in his character... And at the end when he is told the enterprise is destroyed, he considered for a moment that he will relent and give in. While defeated, his resistance was first done to save others and not himself, but since he is now told no one else will be saved, and he does not have to betray anyone else (only betray the truth with a white lie) he considers saving himself only then. Beyond what this says about Picard's character and how much he values the lives of his crew, it also shows the depths to which the Cardassian Military is willing to go to in order reach their goals. They will abandoned and betray any single individual for the 'Greater Good" of their people, and if they can force a Starfleet Captain to make the same choice, then they feel like they will prove to both themselves and the rest of the galaxy that their ways are correct, and that they are superior; that their Military Rule truly has "saved" them.

Kristopher

2025-03-09 11:23:43 +0000 UTC

"You are six years old!"

Kristopher

2025-03-09 11:20:43 +0000 UTC

Well stated!

Jovet

2025-03-09 06:35:13 +0000 UTC

It's not ambiguous: they were BOTH in the wrong. And THAT is why it's awesome!

Jovet

2025-03-09 06:34:20 +0000 UTC

They're already committed to watching all of Star Trek, you know. 🙂

Jovet

2025-03-09 06:33:21 +0000 UTC

Regardless of whether he deserves the pips, he has them.

Loot Narsbaar

2025-03-09 02:46:55 +0000 UTC

the fact that these episodes are before DS9 is perfect! Hang in there with the first two seasons of DS9. It comes into its own nicely in the third season. As for these eps, I think the conflict in the ship is a little tedious. The Picard stuff in the second ep is great.

Sainjl

2025-03-09 00:41:57 +0000 UTC

Put two amazing actors in a minimalist set and have them reflect off each other with a powerful script. At that point you transcend Trek and Trek ratings and you just have first class drama that you can put up against anything anywhere. All the rest, even the really good Trek parts, pales by comparison.

Paul Hess

2025-03-08 23:51:11 +0000 UTC

Although he was a dick, Captain Jellico was right. More militaristic and less diplomatic than Picard for sure. But at the end of the day, he got the job done.

Chris Mickelson

2025-03-08 18:35:20 +0000 UTC

There seems to be some feeling in these comments that the writers messed up somehow by making the Riker-Jellico feud ambiguous about who's in the right. That's why it's awesome!

John M.

2025-03-08 17:03:49 +0000 UTC

I was trying to be brief, but that is what I meant when I said, "this causes most of the problems Riker complains about." He doesn't take the time needed to warm up to the crew because of the pressures Startfleet Command put on him by transferring him to the Enterprise. He has his flaws and he is responsible for inciting both the good and bad of this shakeup.

Kristopher

2025-03-08 16:27:54 +0000 UTC

I just have to say…after reading quite a few anti-Riker and his behavior comments on this thread…what episode were you watching?? It was clear from the start that Jellico was not a fan of the man, and that he was not willing to give Riker or anyone else in the crew “a chance”. I have personally had my share of tyrannical bosses in my life and they all deserved a colossal “go fuck yourself”. This is not a lack of discipline on my part, especially considering how long I tolerated those situations. Maybe as a middle-aged man, I just have zero fucks left to give and I look back and wonder why I put up with it. Riker’s speech to Jellico at the end were words Jellico needed to hear. There is a way to command and inspire others that doesn’t include being an asshole, even in the military. And Riker was the captain who beat the Borg. He earned that swagger and respect.

Raphael Gaytan

2025-03-08 13:30:49 +0000 UTC

Best two parter hands down.

Sam Langanke

2025-03-08 13:23:02 +0000 UTC

Oh I certainly get where you are coming from. Jellico is very jarring at first. Reminds me of most times I get a new boss. But he does start to try and build a rapport once his policies start rolling. Best example is with Geordi on the Shuttle and later when he tries it with Riker in his quarters asking about his music. I feel his style is more, 'finding the right people for the right job', even if it is for smoothing things over with the crew (Troi). Like I said, it's a controversial take.

Nathan Walker

2025-03-08 11:34:02 +0000 UTC

BoBW, Sarek, Inner Light, arguably Night Terrors, Angel One, The Battle, Time Squared. Possibly more

Timothy Nikiforovs

2025-03-08 08:27:04 +0000 UTC

But how many balls are there?

Jovet

2025-03-08 07:40:55 +0000 UTC

Captain Jellico did do something wrong: he wasn't a leader, he was an authoritarian. He may not have to "listen" to the crew under him, but as captain he should have the experience of managing personnel to know how to LEAD them. He did not do that. Riker was more in the wrong, though. He did not carry out the captain's orders or acclimate the crew to the new command structure of the ship. Managing the crew is his main job and he did not do that.

Jovet

2025-03-08 07:40:31 +0000 UTC

Yeah, one of the WTF flaws in this episode, even though they tried to explain it away.

Jovet

2025-03-08 07:37:00 +0000 UTC

"Just barking random orders does not make you a leader. " Exactly. Both Riker and Jellico failed in their professional duties. Excellent writing.

Jovet

2025-03-08 07:35:30 +0000 UTC

Picard must suffer! Part, what, IV?

Jovet

2025-03-08 07:32:35 +0000 UTC

YES SIR! 🫡 (Marina Sirtis LOVED that, BTW. She "got her brains" back finally.)

Jovet

2025-03-08 07:32:14 +0000 UTC

The only thing about the conflict there is that it's pretty contrived. Riker should not have been in conflict with his captain, no matter his personal feelings. (And Jellico, as the crew's supreme leader, was not behaving as much of a leader.)

Jovet

2025-03-08 07:30:16 +0000 UTC

This episode has complex characters, which always makes any drama much more interesting and deep!

Jovet

2025-03-08 07:25:26 +0000 UTC

I like Jellico too, but only so far. The crew did not take the change of command well, and part of Riker's job is to execute that transition as smoothly as possible. On the other hand, Jellico was not very captainly in his new command. He stopped being a captain of a crew (if he ever was one) and turned into an authoritarian in command of the flagship. I always presumed that the distinction and prestige of where he was and the pressure on him went to his head. It is his job to lead and not just bark orders, and he failed at that. Riker failed at carrying-out his orders. It was basically everything that could go wrong did go wrong.

Jovet

2025-03-08 07:24:35 +0000 UTC

This 2-parter pair of episodes is infamous in Trek lore, for good reason. It shatters the usual formula of the show, and shakes things up for better and for worse. The formalities of the change of command was pretty jarring back in the day. I wonder how you two will react to it. This episode has no shortage of entertainment value. It is not perfect and has its flaws, but this is peak Trek. It's also peak Picard. I like Admiral Nechayev. She exudes the "je ne sais quoi" of being an admiral in Starfleet. Gul Madred's character is one of the best guest characters of all TNG, and David Warner nails it under Robert Scheerer's direction. Almost all of this episode is riveting, and there is hardly any wasted screen time. The final scene with Picard and Troi is their best scene together ever. "A" rating (both together)

Jovet

2025-03-08 07:20:14 +0000 UTC

You have good points. But it's his [Jellico] job to lead and inspire the people under his command. If he can't or won't do that, he doesn't deserve the pips.

Jovet

2025-03-08 07:11:50 +0000 UTC

This being episodes 10 and 11, it would normally split TA episodes. I am wondering how you'll handle this. Hopefully you do both of these on the same day and combine them together.

Jovet

2025-03-08 07:10:10 +0000 UTC

He's not captain because he chooses not to be. "Why, Riker? Why? Why do you persist [here]?" "Because I choose to remain on the Enterprise."

Jovet

2025-03-08 07:08:39 +0000 UTC

THERE ARE FOUR LIGHTS!!!!! By far, this is Patrick Stewart greatest performance. This could only be accomplished with great writing and guest performances. You are now set to begin IMO the greatest Star Trek series created and this episode is the perfect set up for the Cardassians and Deep Space Nine!!! I’ve been waiting for this for 2 1/2 years. (Been watching since Wrath of Khan) Love the reviews guys!!!

Reality Strikes

2025-03-08 07:08:12 +0000 UTC

But Riker is also right: Jellico isn't leading his crew, he's just an authoritarian.

Jovet

2025-03-08 07:07:35 +0000 UTC

Offers him a commission, Riker refuses Orders someone else to command, Riker pouts Riker is the most tsundere bridge officer ever

#MaxwellDidNothingWrong

2025-03-08 07:06:35 +0000 UTC

In my opinion, the best two parter. If the Cardassians were set up as master connivers, this episode cements them as a pure evil and real threat. David Warner as Gul Madred was just superb against an amazing Stewart. And as much as they want to preset Jellico as just an asshole, he was right on all his moves, he’s just not Picard or charming, but his a good captain. I assume some people might hate this cause it uses the enterprise and weakens Picard to show that the Cardassians are a real threat, but, how else would you know ? An S and another

Sixto

2025-03-08 04:34:28 +0000 UTC

When Riker gets passed up for promotion he should retort "I was Captain of this ship, I beat the Borg." Every time his superiors flip him shit or question his ability he should simply say "I beat the Borg." ...At the same time he comes off awful in this episode. He doesn't follow orders. He argues with his captain. He acts like an entitled dick when Jelicho asks him to his job and fly the shuttle. His fall from the grace of S2 through the Best of Both Worlds is complete. What is great about this episode is a much as the crew paints Jelicho as the villain, not only is he right about handling the Cardassians, he rescues Picard on top of everything. This episode was done to introduce DS9 and it's a low key great introduction. The DS9 crew would never be this naive about going into battle or dealing with Cardassians.

Loot Narsbaar

2025-03-08 03:54:55 +0000 UTC

This should have been a wake up call that he's not fit to serve as a first officer anymore, and SHOULD take his own commission. Starfleet needs good captains, particularly now, and Riker isn't going to become a good captain hiding in the coat tails of a great man. Shelby and Jellico both see what Picard doesn't. But they also miss what Picard does. Riker GETS IT DONE. That man knows how to get from point A to point B and make it look easy. He wanted to rescue Picard because he knew with his crew that he could do it. The politics would work out because the man just wills the necessary outcome into existence. Very Kirk like. Kirk would not have left Spock behind on some prison planet to be tortured behind enemy lines. Hell, not even Spock left Kirk behind (ST:6) and that's Spock. But there's a time and a place Riker. A 4 shift rotation is not the hill to die on, and if you can't follow anymore, then why turn down those commissions?

#MaxwellDidNothingWrong

2025-03-08 03:45:48 +0000 UTC

You can't trust those damn Cardies! #RememberThePhoenix #MaxwellConspiracy #Jellicho4Prez You don't get to dictate the singular command style you'll agree to serve under. And a 4 shift rotation is not a hill to die on. If Riker can't stow his ego and serve in the capacity the captain he was assigned to needed of him in a tense situation with no time for debate, he has no business as a first officer - he should resign or finally take a commission of his own, but he's no good to starfleet merely as a lackey to one singular man.

#MaxwellDidNothingWrong

2025-03-08 03:36:33 +0000 UTC

My second favorite 2-parter of TNG. Stewart really gets to flex his acting muscles here. David Warner plays such great villains. "How many lights do you see?" Straight out of George Orwell's 1984. A more modern analogy would be: How big a crowd do you see on the mall? Classic form of power control and a test to break a person (or the people's) will. I like Ronny Cox as Jellico, too. A lot of fans are turned off by him and think of him as bad guy or jerk, but I don't see it that way. He's a good captain who just has a very different style than Picard, and it rubs the crew, who are familiar with another leadership style, the wrong way. But Jellico is used to great effect behind the scenes, too: 1) Stewart argued the captain would not keep a creature like fish a captive in his ready room in the 24th century; 2) Marina Sirtis had been begging the producers to let her wear a real Starfleet uniform again, and so now she does.

Collin Freeman

2025-03-08 03:31:32 +0000 UTC

"Alex & Josh, we need a 3 episode shift rotation, GET IT DONE!" XD XD XD

#MaxwellDidNothingWrong

2025-03-08 03:30:27 +0000 UTC

At a certain point you have to respect the chain of command. It's even the episode title for a reason. Up to now we've been treated to one style of leadership, where the stakes and inclinations of the adversaries before us can be talked away with a Picard speech. Jellico knows the Cardassians are different, and that the Ent.D is not fully prepared for that. He has precious few hours to get the crew ready, and the decorum we would all prefer is an unaffordable luxury. When you are out of time, in a military setting, you do not lean on making friends. You rely entirely on the chain of command, and knowledge that your subordinates have the discipline to reserve their judgment for after the crisis has passed, rather than being convinced before. You commanding officer decides when you're in such a period of need, not you.

#MaxwellDidNothingWrong

2025-03-08 03:29:17 +0000 UTC

Picard broke his torturer with that line. So well executed.

#MaxwellDidNothingWrong

2025-03-08 03:22:33 +0000 UTC

This really is the cold opener in time and spirit for DS9 isn't it? I like that sentiment.

#MaxwellDidNothingWrong

2025-03-08 03:18:25 +0000 UTC

I think Jellico has grown on pretty much everyone. It would have been easier to just make Jellico another Maxwell that the crew had to stop, where the 'alien-of-the-week' was actually the good guys and the crew saves the day by diffusing yet another rogue starfleet higher-up. Instead, they make him right in both his suspicions and his solutions. He is written as cold so we long for Picard and get hyper invested in his torture, but not someone whose criticism the audience gets to brush off at the end of the episode. He got it done, then exited gracefully. Was a 4 shift rotation really the hill to die on Riker??

#MaxwellDidNothingWrong

2025-03-08 03:15:58 +0000 UTC

Also, Jellico is: - A family man - Gives the crew a 6 hours work day instead of 8 - Has an appropriate amount of disdain for those damn Cardie bastards

#MaxwellDidNothingWrong

2025-03-08 03:09:29 +0000 UTC

As an Admiral I send Picard to negotiate with the Klingons, but I absolutely send Jellico to negotiate with the Cardassians. You just can't trust those Cardies! S - For 'Series Defining' When you look back at TNG, this is one of the episodes that will come to mind. It's only held back by a hatred for Jellico, but on subsequent rewatches everyone I know has come around on the guy.

#MaxwellDidNothingWrong

2025-03-08 03:04:15 +0000 UTC

I loved Ronny Cox in “RoboCop” and “Total Recall”. He just plays such an awesome asshole! Captain Jellico is no exception! I loved David Warner in “Time After Time” and “The Omen”, not to mention as Chancellor Gorkon in “Star Trek VI”. His gravitas made his performance as the Cardassian torturer Gul Madred positively chilling. But most of all, kudos to Patrick Stewart and to yet another incredible performance! The man’s range is limitless. Not many actors are able to accurately and believably convey what it is to undergo torture. At this point in the man’s character…after everything he has endured over six seasons…Captain Picard is a freakin’ superhero. THERE. ARE. FOUR. LIGHTS!!!

Raphael Gaytan

2025-03-08 02:39:16 +0000 UTC

Honestly my favorite two parter in all of Trek. Also Jellico is right...Riker is a insubordinate baby.

Greg Quinn

2025-03-08 02:31:07 +0000 UTC

I would have liked to see Captain Jellico in earlier episodes and maybe his own series..This also would have been the better cliffhanger than Times Arrow..

Badger

2025-03-08 01:23:53 +0000 UTC

Riker is a dick. He has always been a dick. He is consistently written as a dick. Yet every episode someone says, don’t know why he’s acting this way. :) Wish I had the skills to make a super cut.

John M.

2025-03-08 01:17:16 +0000 UTC

One amazing thing about Warner’s performance is he didn’t know his lines and had to read them off cue cards. He masked it well, obviously.

John M.

2025-03-08 01:12:25 +0000 UTC

S tier. Best Stewart performance in my opinion. A realistic depiction of torture. Troi in a standard uniform. Great stuff!

Cirk Bejnar

2025-03-08 01:10:50 +0000 UTC

Huh. I think of Star Trek two-parters as almost universally worse in their second half. This being a rare exception.

John M.

2025-03-08 01:06:28 +0000 UTC

So now you guys have met Admiral Bitch-ayev.

David Brown

2025-03-08 01:01:42 +0000 UTC

Current US politics in a nutshell. Just believe what we say, not what you see.

Loki San

2025-03-08 00:30:27 +0000 UTC

This episode really shows how Riker has made a career out maximizing being in 2nd place. There is nothing wrong with that, a service requires such people. But he's not captain for a reason.

Alan Thompson

2025-03-07 23:39:57 +0000 UTC

I love this 2 parter, and holding my breath on what you guys will think of it. No spoilers but how you feel about this episode may set the stage for how you feel about another Star Trek series around the corner.

Russell Elledge

2025-03-07 23:17:15 +0000 UTC

I completely agree, I don’t know what they were thinking when writing for Riker in this episode. Jellico could have done several things differently but there is no excuse for Riker to behave like he did.

Marko

2025-03-07 23:16:59 +0000 UTC

I'd rather talk about this episode than rewatch it. I have a love for Ronny Cox scenes and the pettiness of Riker in all this, (especially in contrast to the B plot), however, that B plot, I remembered Picard suffering and seeming to have no hope. The disconnect of the enterprise crew from Picard really makes his scenes drag on. It's one to talk about I think, one to remember.

Patrick Smith

2025-03-07 22:25:56 +0000 UTC

Everyone is going to complain about Jellicoe. I loved him! There’s nothing wrong with having a different style of command, and frankly, Riker came off looking really childish here. One of Star Trek’s longest living memes was born in this one. (THERE ARE FOUR LIGHTS!)

tyranusfan

2025-03-07 22:25:46 +0000 UTC

I don't think it's exactly like that. Granted, Jellico could have done a couple of things maybe differently, but Riker acted like an entitled millennial. I know because I am one… sometimes

Marko

2025-03-07 22:13:16 +0000 UTC

This was good but after a while I was finding the Picard stuff repetitive. I guess I just don't care about Picard enough to get excited because he is crying. I liked the other Capt and the ship, but I don't know in real life what's supposed to happen: does a new Capt try to work and fit in with a crew, or does the Crew just have to throw out their culture and build a new one?

Ken R

2025-03-07 21:39:41 +0000 UTC

These episodes are freaking amazing taken together. The first part, as with all TNG two-parters, is a bit weaker but GODDAMN! The second episode is a masterpiece. Patrick Stewart should have won an award for his work on this one. S-tier all the way.

Paul O'Neal

2025-03-07 19:38:53 +0000 UTC

This is probably the best episode in all of TNG. The conflict between Jellico and Riker is amazing. The guest actor who plays the Cardassian is the single best guest actor in the entire show. His scenes with Picard are INCREDIBLE. This episode is just perfect.

Spencer Loften

2025-03-07 19:27:21 +0000 UTC

Captain Jellico is my all time favourite Captain in Trek as a whole, a combat oriented officer who gets the job done and doesn't mince his words. He puts Troi in a uniform (finally), has zero tolerance for Riker's attitude problem and makes Data his First Officer. Legend! =D

James Knight

2025-03-07 19:04:28 +0000 UTC

"Despite all you have done to me, I find you a pitiable man," is one of the hardest hitting of hard hitting Star Trek quotes in my book.

Kristopher

2025-03-07 18:27:25 +0000 UTC

Damn. I do kinda wish you reviewed these as seperate. The first part is all about how our crew works for Dick Jones, who despite seeming no-nonsense actually is advocating for 6 hour shifts, and manages to get Troi into a uniform, which is the best she's ever looked, IMO. The second part is all about the interplay of of Gul Madrid and Picard in the torture room. Yeah, it's been memed to hell, but it's still incredibly powerful stuff. It's a major 2-parter as well in that it establishes a treaty with Cardassia, reshaping the layout of the quadrant and experimenting with a darker tone for the franchise.

Nolan

2025-03-07 18:26:30 +0000 UTC

Me still getting those asshole vibes from Jellico. I did like that he removed fish tank. It was absolutely unethical.

Kimmo Siniluoto

2025-03-07 18:25:35 +0000 UTC

These are a really great pair of episodes. Jellico, played by Ronnie Cox, is sharp captain who brings a good and rather needed shake up for our crew, but is also under a lot of pressure and does not have the time to warm up to crew and has chosen to be distant rather than get to know his people. This causes most of the problems Riker complains about, but Riker is also in the wrong with how he goes about it - not bringing up issues to the Captain in a timely manner, he seems to encourage the gossip of other crewmen complaining, which undermines the command structure of the ship and just behaves very unprofessionally. I don't know if the writers just assumed that we would give him a pass because we've known him for 6 years (or worse, assume he is infallibly correct) but I do not think it is a good showing for Riker. I think the more impressive elements of the second episode is the interrogation with Picard and the Cardassian, but other patrons (and myself) go into that with far more detail and nuance already in other comments, so here's my two cents on just this aspect of the story.

Kristopher

2025-03-07 18:24:56 +0000 UTC

So much to say about this two-parter and everything it establishes. The torture scenes really bothered me when I first saw this and I really didn't like Jellico, but that has really changed and it's definitely some of the best acting in the series. I'm 56 now and I find that I'm a lot more like Jellico than Picard. The conflict between Riker and Jellico is great. Jellico treating Troi like any other Starfleet officer and requiring her to wear the uniform is great. I know it's something Marina Sirtis wanted too. Red doesn't look good on Data though. DS9 is next!!! S+

Ron Hubbard Jr

2025-03-07 18:24:46 +0000 UTC

One of the most memed episodes of TNG... and an unofficial hand-off to DS9.

Darin Wagner

2025-03-07 18:11:57 +0000 UTC

I may be in the minority here but I think Jellico was right and Riker was acting immaturely. It's called chain of command for a reason. I know we aren't supposed to like Jellico and Riker is in a sense our own rebellion against him. But if you think about it, he's being overly emotional. Which might be understandable, but also unprofessional in my opinion. Picard and Gul Madred dynamic is one of the best, if not THE best, acting performances in all of Star Trek. It is very disturbing, but so impactful. Picard singing while in agony of the pain Madred causes him is chilling. Also David Warner read most of his dialogue of off cue cards that he was reading over Stewards' shoulder. S for being in up there in the stratosphere with rare selected few that merit it.

Marko

2025-03-07 18:04:04 +0000 UTC

The older I get the more I like Jelico.

Alexander McKechnie

2025-03-07 17:00:56 +0000 UTC

Troi, put on a uniform!

Jason Lallathin

2025-03-07 16:01:55 +0000 UTC

More Picard trauma, splendid! Some of the changes Jellico implemented were actually ways to satisfy requests from the cast. Stewart objected to the idea that Picard would keep an animal captive, and Sirtis wanted to start wearing a uniform. It's a very welcome change IMO as it helps you take her seriously as a starfleet officer.

Timothy Nikiforovs

2025-03-07 15:37:46 +0000 UTC

My choice of the most mean characters in this Episode. Gul Madred, Captin Jellico, and Admeral Nachayev. The admiral was the worst in my opinion. Troy having to start wearing a stndard uniform was Marina's idea. She thought is was high time for Deanna to ware a regular uniform like everyone else. Now DS9 Starts.

Keith S

2025-03-07 15:35:20 +0000 UTC

My favourite TNG story. Jellico on the Enterprise is like Frank Grimes on the Simpsons — what would happen if a ‘real’ person met our beloved characters. Along with Matt Decker and a character in NuTrek one of the three best guest bridge officers. Then comes Part 2, which is brilliantly written and acted. “There are four lights” is the meme but there are at least ten bits of back and forth between Stewart and Warner that are just as good. Bonus points for being the TNG ep most like DS9. Bottomless SSSSS.

John M.

2025-03-07 15:34:18 +0000 UTC

Agree with everything you wrote here. Patrick Stewart and David Warner fully earn their paychecks and then some.

Paul Rymer

2025-03-07 15:30:05 +0000 UTC

S tier, legendary pair of episodes, should have been a season finale really as it’s the strongest 2-parter since Redemption.

Paul Rymer

2025-03-07 15:28:17 +0000 UTC

Hot damn, a top level amazing couple of episodes that I cannot praise highly enough

Jeffrey

2025-03-07 15:00:53 +0000 UTC

That's not true at all. He was in command for 2 days and relieved one of the most decorated and well regarded First Officers in Starfleet, because he wouldn't talk to him.

Kevin Is Sexy

2025-03-07 14:50:24 +0000 UTC

How many parts do you see? Tell me you see 3 parts.

Kevin Is Sexy

2025-03-07 14:50:07 +0000 UTC

"There are four lights!"

Kevin Is Sexy

2025-03-07 14:46:57 +0000 UTC

The highest of S tiers for me. This is one we've been sitting around and waiting for since Encounter at Farpoint. Patrick Stewart vs David Warner (RIP) should be studied in acting schools. David Warner was restrained but powerful. Patrick Stewart was vulnerable but strong. Picard may have been affected more than even what the Borg did to him, and he lets Troi do her job.

Kevin Is Sexy

2025-03-07 14:45:53 +0000 UTC

I love everything about this 2 parter. Picard and Madred of course, but the B plot on the Enterprise with Jellico at times I almost find more interesting and that's a big feat. Whatever scene they cut to or away from, I'm never disappointed. Pretty rare!

Darin Starr

2025-03-07 14:45:29 +0000 UTC

I can't agree with you on Jellico. If he's not going to at least consult the senior staff, then, at the very least, not involving Riker in the reason for his decisions, is poor leadership. "I know it will be a hardship on the crew, but we need a 4 team rotation now for this reason. We're under intense conditions right now. The next several days are not going to be easy, but I know this team can do it." Just barking random orders does not make you a leader.

Kevin Is Sexy

2025-03-07 14:39:52 +0000 UTC

There's a reason they keep inviting David Warner back to play yet another character. THIS is the reason. Some of his and Sir Patrick Steward's best performances. They bounce off each other so well. On the Jellico side... (maybe a hot take? idk) I know we're suppose to not like him, but the older I get, the more and more I start to take his side in every decision he makes in these two episodes. He's just being a good leader trying to prepare the crew and ship for the mission ahead and doing it for the good of everyone. And a bit of Trivia: DS9's delayed released caused them to have to rewrite a scene with the Ferengi. Otherwise that scene would have taken place on DS9 with a main character from that show. But alas... "first world problems."

Nathan Walker

2025-03-07 14:22:54 +0000 UTC

Feeling exactly the same - two two-parters right after another... 👍🏼

The Ninth Doctor

2025-03-07 14:22:35 +0000 UTC

It was before but I think when TNG comes back, it was the same day as a DS9 ep. I tried asking the TA guys about it since it happens a number of times and Josh was ignoring all DS9 questions so I stopped trying to ask

THE LORE!!!

2025-03-07 14:20:27 +0000 UTC

Jellico’s line of preferring formality on the bridge was Marina Sirtis behind the scenes saying how come I don’t get to wear a starfleet uniform? So it was integrated in this way. Picards torture is peak TNG you’ve reached the highest high IMO in TNG. There are Four Lights! Alex & Josh, we need a 3 episode shift rotation, GET IT DONE!

LonghillAndy

2025-03-07 14:19:27 +0000 UTC

"Chain of Command - The DS9 Prequel", as a perfect lead in to the new series' premier...

The Ninth Doctor

2025-03-07 14:19:21 +0000 UTC

S for Superb guest stars - pouring one out for both Ronny "Get It Done" Cox and David "Five Lights" Warner (RIP). Possibly the two strongest and most memorable guest performances in TNG, both in the same story. I say this as a serving military officer - yes Jellico is a hard ass, but hes got a job to do and no time to do it. Riker's expectations as a diplomat and explorer needed to take a back seat, and it makes him look hopelessly naive here. Loved that the Jellico character was used as a way for the cast and crew to shake up elements of the show as it was going into its final run - Troi got a uniform, Picard lost his fishtank, and the crew got a much needed kick up the ass - even breaking Picard to do it. A perfect set up to new adventures on the final frontier...

The Ninth Doctor

2025-03-07 14:16:17 +0000 UTC

I like the fact that Jellico could have easily been a badmiral. But he’s just got a different command style to Picard. Props for getting Troi into a proper uniform as well.

Jon1701

2025-03-07 14:14:08 +0000 UTC

🤣🤣🤣 Ronny Cox, hats off to the legendary 80s bad guy. While sterner and more by the book than Picard, Edward Jellico is not a "Captain Bligh" style tyrant. At worst he is a little inflexible and a bit of a micro manager. He's someone who knows exactly what he wants, and exactly how he wants his people to do it. Instead of Picard's more relaxed "Make it so", his catchphrase is the more threatening "Get it done". He believes that the crew should adjust to his way of doing things, and as a serving member of the military I can kinda understand where he is coming from. As he constantly has to remind everyone, they are heading into a potential war, and he needs them ready for it.

The Ninth Doctor

2025-03-07 14:06:48 +0000 UTC

A personal favourite two part episode of mine. Why Picard and Crusher are chosen for a commando mission? beats me, but I don't care. Well shot, well acted and well written.

Wade MacKinnon

2025-03-07 14:03:08 +0000 UTC

CAPTAIN JELLICO DID NOTHING WRONG

Phil Ken Sebben

2025-03-07 13:48:46 +0000 UTC

Even when subjected to the 24th century equivalent of crucifixion, Picard still knows how to diss a guy.

Evan Guthrie

2025-03-07 13:47:31 +0000 UTC

There… are… TWO… PARTS!

Evan Guthrie

2025-03-07 13:44:23 +0000 UTC

This two parter is the final proof why Riker would be a horrible captain. He acts like a child because he doesn't get his way, he undermines Jellico at every opportunity, he insists on running head first into the cardassian trap with a rescue mission for Picard and doesn't even get that his is exactly what the cardassians want when it's spelled out to him And the worst part, when Jellico swallows his pride and asks Riker to pilot the shuttle craft for the good of the mission Riker acts like a smarmy ass and makes Jellico say please. Riker proofed that Jellico is the bigger man, what an idiot.

Phillip Grischa

2025-03-07 13:43:46 +0000 UTC

Oh this two parter is one of my faves. Love it. Part 2 is a masterclass in acting from Patrick Stewart and David Warner Troi being put in uniform is one of the shows best decisions Jellico - yes he maybe a dick but he’s not a bad captain I like seeing a different style of command The new Cardsssian uniforms look great, they look so much better than they did previously. The Cardassians here are truly threatening. Then you have that final, chilling scene where you realise Picard was broken.

Darren Seal

2025-03-07 13:40:29 +0000 UTC

This is a big one, we really get the more developed Cardassians here, new outfits developed for DS9, a better look into their culture. Also interesting to see the perspective of a more military officer than Picard in command, as Jellico is definitely a military man. Note David Warner, who played Chancellor Gorkon in ST6, is back as Gul Madred, and was cast last minute, didn't have time to read the script, and did his role entirely off cue cards, and fucking nailed it. Also, Troi gets to wear the uniform, which looks better on her than the catsuits, so much improvement.

Thomas Cole

2025-03-07 13:37:55 +0000 UTC

Jellico: “You got a lot of nerve showing your face around here Riker” Jellico to the Cardassians: “I’ll blow your ships up and be home in time for corn flakes” Jellico to the Enterprise crew: “I don’t give you enough information to think” To Troi: Uh-uh, princess. We're having you fixed. You're going to be respectful, compliant and appreciative, the way a woman should be.

Phil Ken Sebben

2025-03-07 13:35:03 +0000 UTC

There's been so many good performances by Patrick Stewart in the series, but I really think we're hitting the highest of the highs here with his scenes with Gul Madred. For me, the most haunting part of the final scene isn't that Picard was about to capitulate to his torturer but was interupted, it's that he actually believed he could see the five lights. Gul Madred actually broke him, which is something only the Borg have ever accomplished.

EnigmaticPenguin

2025-03-07 13:30:12 +0000 UTC

Gul Madred broke Picard and he'll never know. Love that Picard opens up to Troi at the end, no "I'm quite recovered" type of bullshit. And I can't believe I'm finally saying it, but onto Deep Space Nine!!

THE LORE!!!

2025-03-07 13:27:47 +0000 UTC

Sir Patrick came up through the same drama school after David Warner and had always wanted to work with him, but never got the chance until now. Amnesty International actually gave Patrick Stewart real footage of torture to watch in order to hone his performance. David Warner was also the Federation representative on Nimbus III in The Final Frontier and Chancellor Gorkon in The Undiscovered Country.

Regan

2025-03-07 13:25:26 +0000 UTC

THERE ARE FOUR LIGHTS!

Matthew Ganz

2025-03-07 13:20:54 +0000 UTC

Not to jump the gun or be super reductive and miss the point.. but I am looking forward to the very next episode of Star Trek that you watch, After this one. Oh this one's great too, but you know. There's more going on than Picard's lil corner of the cosmos. This is maybe some of Stewart's best acting in the show to date and that's already saying something. It doesn't top the emotion in Sarek imo, but he has an equally talented actor to work off of in this set of scenes, I think that's why it has so much lasting impact. Star treks best scenes in my opinion could equally be performed on the stage with no special effects and minimal makeup. The conflict the pathos it's all right there. Yet with the Borg it was over in minutes for us, but we see a lot more of the physical and psychological torture he endures in this ordeal 🔥

Loki Incredible

2025-03-07 13:13:22 +0000 UTC

PATRON TAKES - TNG S6E10&11

Comments

I just realised maybe i shouldn't have mentioned David Warner being in The Undiscovered Country... Alex sees this, gets PTSD and changes his ranking from S to E😂😂😂

Just what Josh and Alex need before meeting a new crew, an arrogant new Captain, and Picard being captured by Cardassians😂

He's kind-of a villain. He is ordered to throw the status quo of the show into total disarray. He doesn't like how Picard does (did) things, and he doesn't like Riker at all. He doesn't listen to his crew and does not respect them as officers or subordinates.

Maxwell would have detonated the mines without a warning because Maxwell knew the Federation was already at war.

It’s the second 😀

Oh! For some reason, I thought I remember them saying that they had seen that movie a while ago. If that's not the case, my mistake

Spoilers for future Trek mate, I'm not sure if they've seen ST2009 so may be worth editing this out 👍🏼

Jellico is (early) Season 1 Picard. And he gets it done. 👍🏼

'Alex and Josh - I prefer a certain... formality while on the channel. I'd appreciate it if you both wore standard uniform while you're reacting.'

Ahh, the Cardassians!

How do you feel about this being the last TNG story before you transition to watching DS9 for a while?

I’m sure I read somewhere that most of Jelichos changes were things requested by the cast Like getting rid of the fish tank

I wouldn't want Jellico as my captain or boss, but I do like that the episode doesn't treat him as "the villain." He has his method which at the end of the day did work, and he is the one who leads the Enterprise to rescuing Picard.

The first duty of every Starfleet Officer is to wear a uniform, Troi!

Assuming the events of "The Wounded" happened differently, I wonder how this episode would have turned out if it was Captain Ben Maxwell (not Jellico) who was made captain of the Enterprise...

Nothing Riker did was okay, let's be real. He acted like a child because he didn't get what he wanted, completely unprofessional and unacceptable.

Jellico asked everyone and everyones Hairdresser to fly the Shuttle. Only then he crouched to Riker not asking him without having the cheek to speak down on him. Not saying everything Riker did was ok.

Didn't grow on me. He gave Riker no room to do his job. Brushed over his concerns and did not listen to any advice from his Senior Staff. No, I am the god of this vessel and only I know what is right or wrong. And Riker did not die on the 4 shift hill.

Patrick Stewart is the GOAT

Captain Jellico was a hardass, but that’s life in the military. Geordi & Riker needed to remember that they are in a military organization, suck it up, and do their job. And Riker was borderline insubordinate.

Patrick Steward hits it out of the park, again. And David Warner, RIP, is no slouch.

Fair enough. At the very least, Jellico should have trusted his XO. And not denigrated him to his previous commanding officer. There’s no scenario you can muster to justify that.

DS9:S1/2 is WAAAAAY stronger than people mis-remember it. Much how like people bafflingly underrate S1/2 of TNG

Jellico did nothing wrong.

Aaaaaah, yes. Finally. Captain Jellico has been a very polarizing figure these last 30 years, inspiring a lot of debate! This was a very welcome shaking-up of things.

JLP: "And if you're not down with that, I got four words for ya!"

Jellico's notion that there isn't time to give the crew to do their job is spot on. It wasn't that he "didn't give them adjustment time" that was the problem, it was that he didn't lead (inspire) the crew to want to adjust.

Also, if I'm working a 9 to 5 I want Picard, I do not want Jellico. If I'm oging to war... well I also want Picard. However, if Jellico keeps me alive I'll put up with him too.

Jellico: "I see why he's only a first officer." What Picard Should Have Said: "He defeated the Borg as captain of this ship and saved all of our asses. Without him there is no Federation today."

Definitely reads that way! I fixed it!

Small correction: Lemec was played by John Durbin; Madred was played by David Warner. You might know this already, but the sentence order can be read as you mixing them up.

Honestly, I think Jellico is a decent Captain. Bit of a hardass but he knows what needs to be done.

That's probably right, given a proper shakedown, they probably would have got along.

Team Jellico here. Is he a dick? Sure. But with a purpose. He motivates the crew. Gets the ship in order. Works over the Cardassians.

Data looks great in red

I do think there’s a lot to like. And Jovet, I know. But there are strings of mid episodes, overlapping with mid tng. So I believe a little patience is needed until DS9 really finds its voice.

I must be in a minority who likes early DS9. S2 is great

"You are six years old!"

Well stated!

It's not ambiguous: they were BOTH in the wrong. And THAT is why it's awesome!

They're already committed to watching all of Star Trek, you know. 🙂

Regardless of whether he deserves the pips, he has them.

the fact that these episodes are before DS9 is perfect! Hang in there with the first two seasons of DS9. It comes into its own nicely in the third season. As for these eps, I think the conflict in the ship is a little tedious. The Picard stuff in the second ep is great.

Although he was a dick, Captain Jellico was right. More militaristic and less diplomatic than Picard for sure. But at the end of the day, he got the job done.

There seems to be some feeling in these comments that the writers messed up somehow by making the Riker-Jellico feud ambiguous about who's in the right. That's why it's awesome!

Best two parter hands down.

BoBW, Sarek, Inner Light, arguably Night Terrors, Angel One, The Battle, Time Squared. Possibly more

But how many balls are there?

Yeah, one of the WTF flaws in this episode, even though they tried to explain it away.

"Just barking random orders does not make you a leader. " Exactly. Both Riker and Jellico failed in their professional duties. Excellent writing.

Picard must suffer! Part, what, IV?

YES SIR! 🫡 (Marina Sirtis LOVED that, BTW. She "got her brains" back finally.)

The only thing about the conflict there is that it's pretty contrived. Riker should not have been in conflict with his captain, no matter his personal feelings. (And Jellico, as the crew's supreme leader, was not behaving as much of a leader.)

This episode has complex characters, which always makes any drama much more interesting and deep!

You have good points. But it's his [Jellico] job to lead and inspire the people under his command. If he can't or won't do that, he doesn't deserve the pips.

This being episodes 10 and 11, it would normally split TA episodes. I am wondering how you'll handle this. Hopefully you do both of these on the same day and combine them together.

He's not captain because he chooses not to be. "Why, Riker? Why? Why do you persist [here]?" "Because I choose to remain on the Enterprise."

But Riker is also right: Jellico isn't leading his crew, he's just an authoritarian.

Offers him a commission, Riker refuses Orders someone else to command, Riker pouts Riker is the most tsundere bridge officer ever

"Alex & Josh, we need a 3 episode shift rotation, GET IT DONE!" XD XD XD

Picard broke his torturer with that line. So well executed.

This really is the cold opener in time and spirit for DS9 isn't it? I like that sentiment.

Also, Jellico is: - A family man - Gives the crew a 6 hours work day instead of 8 - Has an appropriate amount of disdain for those damn Cardie bastards

Honestly my favorite two parter in all of Trek. Also Jellico is right...Riker is a insubordinate baby.

I would have liked to see Captain Jellico in earlier episodes and maybe his own series..This also would have been the better cliffhanger than Times Arrow..

Riker is a dick. He has always been a dick. He is consistently written as a dick. Yet every episode someone says, don’t know why he’s acting this way. :) Wish I had the skills to make a super cut.

One amazing thing about Warner’s performance is he didn’t know his lines and had to read them off cue cards. He masked it well, obviously.

S tier. Best Stewart performance in my opinion. A realistic depiction of torture. Troi in a standard uniform. Great stuff!

Huh. I think of Star Trek two-parters as almost universally worse in their second half. This being a rare exception.

So now you guys have met Admiral Bitch-ayev.

Current US politics in a nutshell. Just believe what we say, not what you see.

This episode really shows how Riker has made a career out maximizing being in 2nd place. There is nothing wrong with that, a service requires such people. But he's not captain for a reason.

I love this 2 parter, and holding my breath on what you guys will think of it. No spoilers but how you feel about this episode may set the stage for how you feel about another Star Trek series around the corner.

I completely agree, I don’t know what they were thinking when writing for Riker in this episode. Jellico could have done several things differently but there is no excuse for Riker to behave like he did.

Everyone is going to complain about Jellicoe. I loved him! There’s nothing wrong with having a different style of command, and frankly, Riker came off looking really childish here. One of Star Trek’s longest living memes was born in this one. (THERE ARE FOUR LIGHTS!)

I don't think it's exactly like that. Granted, Jellico could have done a couple of things maybe differently, but Riker acted like an entitled millennial. I know because I am one… sometimes

These episodes are freaking amazing taken together. The first part, as with all TNG two-parters, is a bit weaker but GODDAMN! The second episode is a masterpiece. Patrick Stewart should have won an award for his work on this one. S-tier all the way.

This is probably the best episode in all of TNG. The conflict between Jellico and Riker is amazing. The guest actor who plays the Cardassian is the single best guest actor in the entire show. His scenes with Picard are INCREDIBLE. This episode is just perfect.