PATRON TAKES - TNG S6E9
Added 2025-03-07 12:57:18 +0000 UTCTAKES WILL BE READ 4/3
Comments
A lot of people are saying "I can't relate to the exocomps", but its not an exocomps episode, its a Data episode featuring exocomps. We care about him, and his care for them is whats interesting. It admittedly could have had better execution, but its such good character work for data that I can't dislike it beyond some pacing choices. I'll give it a B.
cricketlenny
2025-04-01 19:11:01 +0000 UTCWhat if they sacrificed the exocomps and dealt with the fallout of that decision It seems to me Data and Riker could have had the same discussion WITHOUT Data locking out the controls. Yes there's a ticking clock element here, but it would have taken less time than locking out the controls and arguing in private
Loot Narsbaar
2025-03-25 19:52:47 +0000 UTCI'd rather see an episode about Dr. Crusher fighting Worf with a batleth
Loot Narsbaar
2025-03-25 19:51:17 +0000 UTCOne of the rare episodes where the vertical blinds behind Dr. Crusher's office are open. A corridor can be seen through the window. LeVar Burton was allowed to regrow his beard because he needed it for his wedding. But unlike The Outcast, which aired in 1992, it did not just appear and disappear, it was written into the episode. It is unknown whether or not he shaved the beard off in future episodes because he lost his bet with Doctor Crusher. So the xoxo comps are good at basic problem solving. That does not necessarily mean they are alive.
empirejeff
2025-03-25 15:41:56 +0000 UTCExcellent points Kristopher! I think much of what you say is why this one doesn’t work for me.
Column Meanie
2025-03-23 15:34:12 +0000 UTCI think John and Kevin's question are the natural consequence of exploring the topic deeper, but the show doesn't do that with this episode; it just keeps it at the shallow level of "We like Data, therefore these robots are alive too." If we engage with it in any serious way outside of fantasy story writing, the whole thing falls apart. I am fine staying in the fantasy space for simple enjoyment, but when something pulls me out and asks to be serious, then I will. And a serious look simply forces us to compare it with the reality that these things are not alive. And if we play word games to change definitions so we can pretend that they are alive, then we are inside of a new paradigm, where the Dune philosophy of exterminating any and all thinking machines becomes a valid option worth considering because of the potential threat they may pose to our original definitions of "organic life" -- or more specifically how their own pursuit of self preservation threatens human life, which we ourselves must preserve.
Kristopher
2025-03-23 13:21:33 +0000 UTCGreat episode. Elaborating more the concept of meassure of a man. Not at all looking like Data but still having the Life in it. Data now standing up for them when noone else would. The discussion with Riker when he is convinced to "ask" them to willful do the dangerous job was very good imo. A for me.
ComMix
2025-03-21 13:00:58 +0000 UTCI hate, hate, hate this episode with a fiery passion. It is an easy E. I think what they may have been trying to do was to make us think about the idea that something or someone doesn't have to look exactly the way we expect to deserve our respect or for us to recognize its value, but I just don't think that going with an artificial life form is an approach that paid off here and if anything I think it almost turns me off to that message because in this episode there are just too many logical flaws or contradictions with the idea that the exocomps really are a lifeform. The episode tries to build a bit on The Measure of a Man, but that episode did the concept so much and so far and away better than this one that in comparison I feel like The Measure of a Man almost makes the case *against* the exocomps. We might even look at the episode in a whole new way in 2025 as compared to the way it was when I first saw it twenty years ago in that by the standards used to judge the exocomps to be new forms we could declare several of the better LLM chatbots to be alive in the here and now. I say this as someone who predicts that the ChatGPTs of the world will one day get much closer to genuine intelligence than even most experts and people who work on these things, but to say that they are there today is just not accurate - and yet The Quality of Life takes what was even in 1993 so obviously an illogical and shallow approach to the question that here in 2025 it is even more silly.
Shane Coombs
2025-03-20 02:20:36 +0000 UTCWeirdly this one gets an A from me. It isn't usually the type of episode i'd love. I see things from Data's perspective, and i love it.
jon bolton
2025-03-15 05:27:23 +0000 UTCThe episode brings up a few interesting questions that it fails to explore. Data points out that the exocomps are alive, but that also by his definition, so are viruses. So why doesn't he lock down sick bay when Doctor Crusher wants to treat a patient? It's an important question the episode ignores. Of course, it's sentience vs non-sentience that is the important question at hand, but the episode doesn't explore that distinction. To a certain extent, the episode feels close to a retread of Home Soil. Plus, a number of things are just _boring_ in this episode. Farallon is a boring adversary. They make the frequent TNG sin of "sending a shuttle to rescue them will take too long, so let's spend enough time arguing and talking about it that a shuttle could have reached them by now. "The script does not rationally go through the options, these options are cut off by the script just to create "tension." You can feel the writing choices and all the times someone said "well, it has to be this way, otherwise the plot would fall apart." Also, Data says he does what he does because he's alone and unique in the universe -- did he forget about Lore and Lal? Plus, there is no punishment at all when Data disobeys a direct order based on a hunch? No consequences at all, just like in Brothers. There are just a lot of things in this episode that make you say "wait a minute..." It doesn't make this a BAD episode, it's just.. okay. Just okay in the grand scheme of TNG episodes.
Ian Westcott
2025-03-14 19:49:02 +0000 UTCThey do look like something futuristic you'd shove down a long pipeline, don't they?
Jovet
2025-03-14 05:06:35 +0000 UTCCare to elaborate?
Jovet
2025-03-14 05:05:15 +0000 UTCI agree with kevin. I tend to land on the side of 'Maddox was probably right about Data, but I love Data and I pretend to believe he's alive anyway', and I think this episode does force people to face the possibility that they may only really think Data is 'alive' because of the fact that he looks and acts so much like a human (which is of course due to being literally a human actor in makeup playing the role). Artificial is still artificial, even if it's amazingly done.
Forbidden Donut
2025-03-13 19:13:55 +0000 UTCInteresting idea, though I don't remember what exactly justifies this 'evolution' of what would seem to be somewhat primitive machines (compared to an android like Data) turning into 'life forms'. But if I accept the premise on its face, I admire and understand Data sticking up for them.
Forbidden Donut
2025-03-13 19:11:26 +0000 UTCYep, everything you said is spot on, which is why it doesn’t really work as entertainment (which ultimately is what Star Trek is). It’s just hard to get excited about a floating box.
Column Meanie
2025-03-13 01:26:37 +0000 UTCI always admired the episode for doing exactly that. To quote Bruce Maddox "If it were a box on wheels I would not be facing this opposition". It's directly challenging our nature as humans to disregard what doesn't look like us with that design. It's easy to sympathize with data because, I mean, he's essentially human. Much harder to be confronted with something that is so totally machine-like, and viewed as a tool much more so than data, and be asked to extend the same basic rights that you would any living creature. I don't think the episode is incredible by any means, but I do love this idea. It's a concept that only sci fi could tackle.
kevin coleman
2025-03-12 22:11:42 +0000 UTCThe execution is what really just puts this in C-tier for me.
Ian Westcott
2025-03-11 22:58:55 +0000 UTCExocomps are such an interesting addition to Star Trek.
SetsunaYuki
2025-03-10 19:37:30 +0000 UTCA premise that I’m sure looked great on paper, but I just can’t feel any sympathy or just anything for the exocomps. I blame that on a failure of execution. This one would’ve worked better had the exocomps had a “Batteries Not Included” look to them, but the design here just doesn’t work. We have to care about the exocomps, and it’s hard to care about a floating toolbox. C for “Can’t believe I’m siding with Maddox”
Column Meanie
2025-03-10 01:52:46 +0000 UTCMy nickname for the Exocomps has always been the Piglets. And it's nice to see Data standing up for another potentially living being. Another fun one for me but not top tier. I rank it as "Enjoyable".
KatWithAttitude
2025-03-09 21:16:32 +0000 UTCI guess he is dealing with season 6 Riker
Loot Narsbaar
2025-03-09 02:29:15 +0000 UTCThis has an interesting premise for a scifi story, but was generally a so-so episode, however the end of the episode conversation between Data and Picard gets my eyes just a little bit watery.
Kristopher
2025-03-08 20:16:12 +0000 UTCMe: Trying to get into maketing. Companies: Why hire copywriters when we can get AI to do it? Often I have no issue with a technology in and of itself. What IS alarming is the dollar signs corporate types see in using it to exploit workers, or end-run around an entire field of business just to cut-corners. Becoming a creative in a steady, non-glamorous field is getting increasingly more difficult as companies seek to save cost and energy on AI produced media as they can do it for cheaper and without having to deal with artistic integrity of the author, cause the author is a microprocessor.
Nolan
2025-03-08 08:45:28 +0000 UTCIt almost got a writing credit.
Jovet
2025-03-08 07:05:48 +0000 UTCWell, this one is pretty good compared to the majority of what came before it in S6...
Jovet
2025-03-08 07:05:06 +0000 UTCNot as boring as others.
Jovet
2025-03-08 07:04:43 +0000 UTCI always interpreted that to be the same thing.
Jovet
2025-03-08 07:03:55 +0000 UTCThe current state and nature of "AI" is not well understood by the general public, and it's often used as a vehicle to drive fear into audiences or societies. It's easy for people to fear what they do not understand. "AI" is the latest in a long list of items that humanity has come up with for which the threatening nature is contrived and overblown. Seriously: don't lose sleep over it.
Jovet
2025-03-08 07:03:31 +0000 UTCIt's his "HAL 9000" moment. Or, at least it's supposed to remind you of that.
Jovet
2025-03-08 07:01:07 +0000 UTCI think this is an excellent episode of Star Trek. The search for "new life, new civilizations" never stops, even when it's right in front of your nose. This is well written, and Data is the perfect character to save the excomps. Data did a good thing. Wave Hi at Geordi's beard again. It's nice to see the exocomps as a form of AI that doesn't terrorize audiences since it's too often employed to that effect in fiction. "B" grade
Jovet
2025-03-08 06:59:56 +0000 UTCI just have to say… Gates McFadden in this episode is just AMAZING ! This is one of those Star Trek episodes that are SO Star Trek in my opinion!
Sixto
2025-03-08 04:32:21 +0000 UTCData locking out the controls seems unnecessary and forced. It really holds this episode back.
Loot Narsbaar
2025-03-08 03:42:19 +0000 UTCirl AI is getting spooky, and the line between tool vs life is going to get very blurry very soon. It's wonderful having stories like these that are timeless enough to be enjoyed by generation after generation to help explore these ideas on paper, so we don't have to disastrously explore them irl. As an episode, probably a B It's easy to write this sort of story when the 'other' is familiar looking like Data, who has two arms, two legs, and can make a super subtle pouty face when it's existence is on the line. It's harder when your 'other' doesn't look like anything at all and has zero expression, like with exo-comps or a Horta. 'Measure of a Man' is comparatively easy to pull off, while episodes like these are a challenge. The writers didn't shy away however, and nailed it.
#MaxwellDidNothingWrong
2025-03-08 02:55:57 +0000 UTCI like this one.
Greg Quinn
2025-03-08 02:29:25 +0000 UTCYmmv. Personally I’d hope that my BFF saves me first 😁
tyranusfan
2025-03-08 01:56:34 +0000 UTCI respectfully disagree, I believe this is exactly how Data would behave. He is essentially the only one who could, precisely because of the way he is and how his character arc has been until that point.
Marko
2025-03-08 01:53:28 +0000 UTCLow B‐tier for me. Not badly done but focusing on whether or not the Exocomps are alive rather than sentient seems odd.
Cirk Bejnar
2025-03-08 01:08:30 +0000 UTCI want the biography on Geordi's Beard.
Patrick Smith
2025-03-07 22:28:39 +0000 UTCBlah. Everyone talks about this one as a triumph for Data and artificial life form rights. To me, it’s totally unbelievable that Data would be willing to sacrifice his best friend and his Captain to save R2-D2.
tyranusfan
2025-03-07 22:26:28 +0000 UTCA classic Trek plot executed comptently. I like it, but it's not in the top half of the season for me.
Paul O'Neal
2025-03-07 19:37:24 +0000 UTCA pseudo-sequel to "Measure of a Man" where Data gets to be the advocate for new life, showing how far he's come. Let's just hope they don't go all Cylon on everyone.
Nolan
2025-03-07 18:20:31 +0000 UTCGood plot but boring as hell. C
Ron Hubbard Jr
2025-03-07 18:16:58 +0000 UTCSeason 6 is superb.
Paul Rymer
2025-03-07 15:26:54 +0000 UTCI think this episode is a generous interpretation of how friendly Roombas would be if they achieved sentience. Always bumping into walls, cornering the cat, trying to eat our toes.....I don't trust the little bastards. Also Geordi does the original Drake meme
Timothy Nikiforovs
2025-03-07 15:26:37 +0000 UTCAll I remember about this one is the look of the exocomp. Probably a bad sign.
John M.
2025-03-07 15:26:08 +0000 UTCSpecial Guest Star: That device in the lab with the two flashing red tubes has been used as a prop in countless TV shows and movies, including The Wrath of Khan.
James H
2025-03-07 15:24:18 +0000 UTCIt's a good story. Exocomps looked kind of silly but guess function can't always look cool.
Keith S
2025-03-07 15:23:15 +0000 UTCNice exploration of the idea of mechanical sentience - but as an episode of a TV show it falls a little flat
Jeffrey
2025-03-07 14:59:52 +0000 UTCSpecial Guest Appearance by Geordi’s beard
LonghillAndy
2025-03-07 14:11:55 +0000 UTCPICARD: "You see, he's met two of your three criteria for sentience, so what if he meets the third. Consciousness, in even the smallest degree. What is he then? I don't know. Do you? (Turns to Josh and Alex) Do you!?" Not much to say about this episode. Very good. Solid A
Nathan Walker
2025-03-07 14:11:34 +0000 UTCC+ for Competent Contract Filler - Data finds android Pokemon and loves them. Solid plot, good execution but doesn't quite hit that mark for me. Keen to see your thoughts on this one, cant call if it'll grip or bore the shit out of you... Some big "Batteries Not Included" vibes here too - have you guys seen that movie?
The Ninth Doctor
2025-03-07 14:05:27 +0000 UTCThis episode sets up even more strange precedent for the treatment of robots. If a computer glitches and does not want to perform a task it was designed to do, does that mean it has free will? The definition of a computer glitch is an unintended behavior. Rubs me the wrong way.
Evan Guthrie
2025-03-07 13:43:57 +0000 UTCTrek by numbers maybe but done well, it’s a good use of Data and I like the idea the artificial life rights being applied to something non humanoid.
Darren Seal
2025-03-07 13:36:16 +0000 UTCA nice sequel episode to Measure of a Man and The Offspring, not as dramatic, but nice to see the continuance of the idea of rights for artificial beings, even if they don't look human.
Thomas Cole
2025-03-07 13:34:48 +0000 UTCData gets to be the advocate for new life, a great concept and well executed.
Phil Ken Sebben
2025-03-07 13:32:25 +0000 UTC
