KINNPORSCHE E4 - UNCUT

Don’t say it as if it’s not gonna happen!!!!!!! (Fingers crossed) there’s still a chance! I agree with you 100% about the production and music and so on. Because of KP I now am Jeff Satur’s greatest fan! Lmao. Got the tshirt literally. With his faces from music videos on it (black tie dum dum fade yellow leaf etc). I love his music so much. I hope they also listen to his MVs too

Shelby Frost Bay

All of this. Honestly, KP is my favourite bl. The chemistry is just off the charts and production, music etc such a pleasure. I was really looking forward to them reacting to particular future eps.

Cassy G

Me as well I know I need to be patient but I am so used to them posting on Thursday like clockwork and I can watch (take off work early just for this!) get McDonald’s and sit. But today I was at work waiting for it to drop and it never dropped so I didn’t leave work early and never had McDonald’s … pouting and worrying. Here’s to hoping it’s just them being late and we are just being paranoid. I hope episode four didn’t scare them off!!!!! The series is so freaking good!!! The combination of their reactions and the series?!?! A dream!!!! I never dreamed that they would react to KP! So let’s hope that they’re just late

Shelby Frost Bay

I hope not. I've been checking constantly since Thursday for the new ep. Starting to worry.

Cassy G

Apparently it's about a gay man whose partner dies and because they weren't married, he doesn't have full inheritance rights so his partners mother and stepsister and grandma move in with him and it becomes suspenseful at that point, according to the preview/synopsis and genre tags.

Cassy G

You don’t think they will drop the series because of episode four? I hope not!!!! I mean the dub con is a little iffy but the series is awesome I hope they give it a chance!!!!!!

Shelby Frost Bay

I CANNOT wait for that!!!! Also for Vamp that he makes an appearance in?! Both in 2025! I’m gonna have to white knuckle it/go cold turkey and rewatch him in other things until then. This is TORTURE!

Shelby Frost Bay

There’s another with Barcode called Happy Ending that I believe is a thriller.

Trey Burke

Thought that Paradise of Thorns was a Gay Drama not Thriller? Trailer/pilot on YT was so sad!!!!!!

Shelby Frost Bay

Jeff has already come for at least one fashion event. Who knows... cross fingers. There is no stopping him now...

Saye

I also wish Jeff would come over to America for some performances. He’s so talented.

Trey Burke

I’ll just stick with my head cannon then. I will always adore this show being my first intro to the world of BL though and this cast was just so amazing, they have touched my heart with their portrayal of their characters and the way they made me fall in love with them

Trey Burke

There are tons, literally TONS of fanfics for us season 1 orphans, because of this craving we all have . Also being able to follow their Asia/ World tour for a whole year helped soften the blow for a lot of us ( I bought all the tickets, had a blast with them) . Especially since the third lead, JeffCode, was given a happy ending there . A season 2 will NOT happen : Build 's more or less cancelled (although he pursues a career of his own ), Bible has a new ship and new projects with actor Jes . Jeff and Barcode are now with other companies, Code wants to try other genres and probably a musical career and Jeff Satur has a very full schedule . Mile and Apo are begining to favour solo projects, one in music, the other in directing . Other actors with support roles ( like Ken/Perth, or Jom, or the dads ) have left BeOnCloud, or were not signed with them anyway . A small but rabid part of Build's fandom (noticeably in China) remains determined to attack BeonCloud at every opportunity , so Kinnporsche is still a bit of a minefield in that regard. As thankful as the cast are for KP's huge success, they said their goodbyes (and shed tears) on stage last year, after almost three years of training, living and breathing with that series . On top of that , the question of the rights to the series/ the novels that inspired the series seems not so simple. Finally, KP fans are demanding . A watered down, half-assed sequel will satisfy nobody . Better ask for a special EPILOGUE single episode/ fast forward in time , that would give us the answers we deserve, and a closure. I could absolutely see that happening, except what to do about Pete ?

Saye

Imma just keep my fingers crossed that they work it out some way lol. If not I have my own head cannon. I would love to see Jeff in concert at some point

Trey Burke

I sympathise, especially because I loved the characters and would have enjoyed seeing them again. Maybe you could find a good fanfic that gives u closure.

Cassy G

I’m excited about all those projects but ugh I need series 2 of KinnProsche. I think they should get new writers then lol. It will kill me not knowing some things.

Trey Burke

Unfortunately, thats very unlikely to happen because of drama with the writers and one of the actors. Btw in case any of this is news, MileApo have a new drama, Shine, in the planning stages and Bible (aka Vegas) has a gay scifi drama, 4 Minutes, and Jeff has a gay thriller, the Paradise of Thorns, that looks very promising.

Cassy G

I have become obsessed with his music lol. I really want to see a series 2 come out. There are a lot of unanswered questions from the first series that I need answered.

Trey Burke

Its epic, hey? I've watched it so many times. MileApo are my favs. Btw, if u haven't already, check out Jeff Satur's music. He is Kim the youngest brother in the show and did the main song from the soundtrack. His MVs for black tie and Dum Dum in particular are awesome.

Cassy G

Because of you fellas I have devoured the whole series! I love love love it and I can’t thank y’all enough for reacting to it so I could discover it!

Trey Burke

Loved Only Friends despite all the cringey scenes.

Lisa M T

just doing a rewatch and i completely forgot but your reaction to the bag falling down and revealing the lube & condom had me giggling

Tina Oestreich

As I rewatch the video, it is surprising how much Alex or Josh intuitively get, although they do not realize it . Like joking about Porsche being the diamond. Well his first name "Pachara" means exactly that in Thai, "diamond". It adds a whole different layer to the following scenes . I was not aware of this fact until a Thai fan wrote about it . Which makes me wonder if Alex and Josh will get more into Thai culture as they react to more BLs... Did anyone tell them about the picking up of nicknames that serve as usual first names ? The whole topic of Thai names is really fascinating once you dive into it.

Saye

I was so anxious for you guys to watch this that I had to play it in the background 😅

Your Bae From Busan

Putting 'straight' in front of women feels misleading, as many women who create BL are not straight. Some of the most beloved BLs are written by queer women or people who don't divulge gender or identify within the gender binary. When we talk of early BL being invented by straight women we are making assumptions about people who lived in a culture where you didn't openly identify as anything. Straight was just assumed as the default. In Japan it is still very uncommon to come out. The whole 'relating to the bottom' is also nonsense. Sure, some do, of course, but to say that BL was created the way it is because women wanted to relate to the 'bottom' and not because of strong heteronormative customs in the culture and media early BL authors grew up in is simplifying the art down to stereotypes that straight men have used to ridicule anyone who enjoys queer media, in my humble opinion. The only defining feature of BL in Japan is a central relationship between two male characters. Even Heartstopper is sold and marketed as BL in Japan. Only in the west do we separate BL from queer media. But by the very definition, Heartstopper, Young Royals etc are BL. People in the west just like to tack on 'asian' in that definition. And many beloved 'western' BLs are also written by women, but we don't have people saying Young Royals is only made for straight teen girls like they do Asian BL. A majority of media in the west about relationships between men are also written by women and non-binary people, too. And the majority of the audience are women, queer or otherwise. Maybe we should just face the fact that women like the romance genre a lot (because they do). Makes sense a genre under the romance umbrella would have an audience and creators of mostly romance fans.

suga93hoodie

Thank you for reacting to this show (although I’m with others who were a bit surprised that this is your first BL!) In my opinion, you are having the correct response to the end of episode four….and the exact response the show’s creators want you to have. This was a complicated scene that complicates Kinn and Porsche’s relationship in exactly the ways you might expect, although perhaps to a different degree. We aren’t supposed to brush off this scene or think it’s romantic or a healthy beginning to a love story. Not at all.

Dee Anderson

Exactly right...well said!

Michael Craig

Well said! I think I've also read that BL has roots in early fanfic on the Internet, and was mostly written by straight women for other women. I remember reading a lot of it back then and thinking that these weren't like any gay men I knew and concluding that a lot of it was women processing their trauma with straight men. It was an excellent way to approach uncomfortable topics and issues: I read a lot of Juxian Tang then...she was the best at dark and violent. Now that BL's are using some out gay male directors, the characters are looking more realistically queer, to me.

Michael Craig

I've started watching BL with Kinn/Porsche and have many of them under my belt now. I've even read some sociological-cultural analyses of the rise of the genre (Starting as a thing directed at teenage girls from extremely patriarchal/sexist societies for the girls/young women to escape their reality; that's why in most of them, the top/bottom are very strongly emphasized so that the female watcher can identify with the "bottom") bc I wanted to understand better the whole thing. I found a lot of tropes normalizing sexual violence, stalking as "romantic," or possessiveness as a form of showing love. I think it's partially cultural, as the issues of explicit consent or the myriads of red flags issues are evolving and are not discussed everywhere the same way. In some places, just showing gay characters is already a huge step, and accepting friends/family (or not) is also something that is huge and can help facilitate change. These shows (of which many are very prude and show no more than flat dead fish kisses) are great windows into different cultures, cultural tropes, and ways of dealing with queerness. btw - I don't see the BL universe as "everyone is queer," many of the early ones were love between straight guys who somehow discovered they loved each other (but no other guys ever) - back to the "for teen girls viewers." In the more open, there is the assumed background that everyone can discover they also like guys if the right one comes. Many characters are "straight" when we meet them and become/realize they are bi/pan/gay bc of love. Some BL does cover issues of homophobia; many are only comfortable with guys looking lovingly into their eyes but nothing more (which I often find homophobic as well). Anyway, this series is one of the modern mature versions of BL. If you want to see a good one from the more "innocent" classic ones, watch My School President. One of the best "normal" ones (with regular gay characters and realistic life issues, including sex) - "Only Friends." I got on here because I wanted to hear what you think about Kinn Porsche :D (and to have a chance to share my nerdy opinions on things people don't generally analyze through cultural/feminist/gender studies eyes :D). I like your style, guys. Keep up the good work :)

Joanna Maria

Oh, yeah. I never said they shouldn't be depicted or anything, just that their relationship didn't even start off from a healthy place, so this problematic sex scene can hardly surprise people. Some of my favorite ships are honestly soooooo problematic, so I'm certainly NOT one of those people whose like, "This couple is toxic, therefore they shouldn't be portrayed in media even though they are compelling." Kinn and Porsche shouldn't be looked up to as a romance to strive for, but I don't think the show even tries to say that viewers should. They're still fun to watch!

Mandi Mateer

You are really giving too much away, that's spoiling imo, particularly as you had one thing wrong. Please take into account they asked us not to, but also there are a few viewers who are watching it for the first time .

Saye

DiDam

Kinn has also been violent with Porsche several time (choking him, shooting an apple off his head, kidnapping him), so yeah. I don't see that as a reason not to portray their relationship - conflict is what makes stories interesting after all and I think there should be room to tell all kinds of stories. I just don't like when people pretend like Kinn and Porsche are the perfect couple. They may be soulmates, they may love each other very much, they may both feel like there is nobody else who can ever understand them the same way, but they are still a mafia boss and a bodyguard living in a fucked up world.

Len

I don't think that scene is supposed to be purely romantic and sexy. I think it's supposed to make us feel conflicted and deeply uncomfortable. Otherwise they wouldn't have shown us how high Porsche is, wouldn't have focused so much on Kinn fighting with himself (holding back at first). The music feels quite melancholic to me. The melody that starts playing while Kinn sexually assaults Porsche is like their theme - it comes back in many more scenes. Kinn is somebody who has major issues around giving up control. He's possessive, jealous, he can be violent. He's not an easy man to love. He's a mafia boss ffs. And here we see one of his darker sides.

Len

I'm team Porsche. He's my favorite character by far! I know a lot of people love Vegas and consider him the most interesting character but honestly, I find Porsche much more compelling. Probably because he's relatable.

Len

Ep 6 is my favorite episode

Kimberley

I totally concur with everything you wrote . I'm in your age bracket, and started to explore the gay (not quite LGBTQIA+ yet !) scene in Paris around 1981-1982. 1982 was the year I read about the mysterious "legionary disease " that was making victims in the gay spas of California in the monthly magazine for homosexuals that I bought at the newsagent's, with blushing cheeks but also rather a defiant attitude (no-one ever blinked,or commented) . Also it was the year we organized the huge gay pride in Paris that broke free from the imposed circuit and ended up at the Beaubourg/ Pompidou Art Museum . I still have some of the confetti that were thrown from its rooftop . That quickly turned up into a terrible decade . I'm glad that fluff exists, but it can't be all our stories are about . Also, good luck to all the decent people in the USA, you'll much need it.

Saye

Let me reassure you as much as I can without getting into spoilers: despite the music and the lighting, the show intended for you to find that last scene uncomfortable. The show does not try to gaslight viewers into believing that was okay. It will get addressed.

K Pax

Yes, this is most definitely a complicated episode. As a regular consumer of BL content, I have to say that I love the way they develop some storylines in this series. Some BL content has these types of scenes that are questionable, but in real-life sets (like here, where we have morally gray characters and a deep and dark theme. It can be normal for these types of series to have these types of scenes. However, in other BL series, particularly the older ones, these scenes are portrayed as normal, average and normalized in these normal life settings. So I get why, in this setting and storyline, some of the characters can be like that, NOT excusing in real-life terms the actions of said characters. I hope you can and want to continue with the reactions. Lots of love💕💕

Bruna

yes the novel i'ts quite is ....well.... as you said; good adaptation

Bruna

yes! very well said

Bruna

Thank you for stopping the story and flat out saying what needed to be said. You are such good souls. (This has no spoilers. I only talk about this episode) Nope! None of that was ok in any way… it smacks too much of the beauty being told they can tame a beast no matter what he does to them (which in real life is too often about an abused & a narcissistic abuser who can never reform himself). As far as expecting what you want to happen in the next episode? The series has 14+ episodes so patience is needed. This scene is why so many of us were surprised, maybe worried, you picked this series first. We all have built more trust, through other more wholesome BL series, to know we should expect that love is involved. We are looking at a man (Kinn) who has had the Mafia way of thinking drilled into his head. Yet his nature seems to struggle with that. He wants to be good. That scene was all about the war going on between the two sides of him. Then add in his obvious growing desire to be with Porsche. His good side obviously lost. Will he pay for making that choice? Kinn is a man who always got what he wanted yet tried to be a stand up guy. It helps to notice the story puts Kinn on his knees first. He is loving on Porsche first so we can see he’s not a customer demanding service. He’s giving. Add that to the fact that he kissed Porsche, on the pier and here (soon after Porsche vomited😝), that smacks of real love when he’s known for never kissing his other partners. Justifications? Maybe… ok likely. But showing us how monsters can grow, back into being human, is very necessary in this moment in our history. As fascisms grows. My take on this: I’m now 60 and one of my closest university friends is a Hollywood actor, producer, & director involved in ground breaking productions. 90% of his projects are LGBTQ. He is gay and we’ve always supported him. Been there for him through some truly hellish times in his life. He has lost 29 friends & lovers to tragic deaths. Because of him I’ve watched, very closely, how gay men are portrayed in media. It has always broken my heart to see western story, after story, portraying gay men as “lust driven, walking emotional scars, doomed to a bad end”. Even my friend’s productions smacked of this. We are all far more than a cliche and how can a gay 12 or 15 year old boy have positive expectations for his future if that was all he saw? I want to watch all “reaction” videos with my focus on the emotions of the gay hosts (except I also watch you two for the pure fun you offer me. TY🥰). Anyway… in one of the teen oriented BLs the reaction host just flat out said “Why couldn’t I have been treated like that as a teen?!” His pain was so obvious and part of him really wanted to go on a childish rant for himself. I see the pain & stark envy of older gay men, watching these stories of open acceptance they couldn’t feel, and it’s heartbreaking but the wholesome stories can offer a great way to further their healing process. To shed that F’g shame that nobody deserves😡. The production company, behind KinnPorsche, is attempting to deal with some of the truly scarred & twisted souls in this world. I’m not comfortable with important lines being blurred but there are too many humans who do just that in real life. This story is addressing them rather realistically. No matter what I absolutely rejoice in seeing the freedom offered in the BL universe. I’m here for the revolution that has followed. Openly, with legal protections, standing up with our LGBTQ citizens. To guarantee the unalienable rights that we all deserve. Sadly it is such a huge revolution that the fearists/narcissists/fascists have reacted most violently. Particularly here in the U.S.. But they always have reacted violently. Any time we stand up to take away one of the targets they spew their uncontrolled fear onto. To the point that now, in the U.S., they want ALL their targets back. Including their own wives & daughters. The fascist survival strategy is to feel safe by feeling “better than” someone else. They demand a forced hierarchy. Much like we see Kinn doing. We can even see it in ourselves on occasion (Twinks?). Best to look at this as a man experiencing his growth in an ugly mafia world with few moral expectations. He has huge walls to break down. Let’s see how he gets on. Hmmm🤔 D🤬n! I even left a full size article here when I swore I wouldn’t make any more comments at all. At least it’s spoiler free😁. 🫂&💋 x2 from IG: trixy_loves_the_world.

Trixy_loves_the _world

😁The cheese is product placement🤣

Trixy_loves_the _world

In my opinion, it’s not being glorified as a romantic moment, it’s being presented as a moment when Porsche’s perception of what is happening is distorted by the fact that he’s drugged, hence the soft-focus, blurring of movements and shifting of viewpoint. And that there’s no consent is exactly the point because it is such a potent comment on Kinn’s world where people are disposable and it doesn’t pay to consider their humanity. But if you keep watching, you’ll see that KinnPorsche is really about trust or the lack of it and surprising things can happen to even people who seem morally bankrupt at first.

Ruth May

Yes! I hope they see this comment. I would never recommend Kinnporsche as a first time BL for newcomers. It doesnt represent the majority of BL shows. While KP is very good its also very morally grey and I hope ot doesnt scare them away from watching BLs in the future.

Kate

All your observations are valid and what happens in this episode is disturbing, as many have pointed out. But it is also intentionally dissonant and is a key mover in the episodes that come up. You should do what makes you feel comfortable, but I do hope you continue watching it.

Sera Taíno

Absolutely agree with this.

Ruth May

That’s exactly why you need to see how things unfold in the next two episodes in particular as a direct result of what happened here, which was definitely not ok, but that is the point, and an important one. Wait and see what happens next and why and you have why KinnPorsche is such a masterful show that set the bar so high for BL..just my opinion, but honestly, it’s so worth persevering and the acting just gets better and better.

Ruth May

Exactly,.

Ruth May

Potentially helpful information! This show was filmed during Covid restrictions which had a huge impact on the number of people they could have in a room at one time. I've noticed you guys have picked up on that a couple of times, at Hum Bar and the event in this episode. Because of those limitations, sometimes you can tell that the extras are trying to fill as much space as possible without it really being realistic. Hope you continue with this as I am deeply enjoying both your reactions!

nuwildcat

First of all, thank you for reacting to all the oofftt moments and the great moments of kinnporsche so far. I had to skip this scene because i was uncomfortable :( funnily enough, I was able to watch it when I see reactors reacting to it because all your reactions are relatable. The consequences of this non consensual was done pretty good for a BL because it was never really highlighted in any other Thai BL. Long run game, their relationship is really full of ups and downs and they solve it in a very relatable way. Healthy or unhealthy is a different thing. I’m just saying, hope yall give it a little a time for the story to cook 😂

IAMONSTRISM Diaz

They deal with the consequences of this episode much better than any previous BLs. Porsches acting in upcoming episodes is very well done. And there was a time that in every other BL there would be a main romantic relationship that began with scenes like in this episode and it would be romanticised, never show as wrong. So going forward whilst how they deal with it in KinnPorsche is far from how anyone should in real life it was a surprising thing to see the series make clear Kinns actions were not okay.

ikra

I think you guys did a great job with reaction. This is the episode that really has its ups and downs. Regarding the character of Vegas he is probably one of the most interesting in the show. The actor that plays Vegas (Bible Wichapas Sumettikul) was actually encouraged to audition for the role because he has a "mean face". Ironic because from all the behind the scenes I've watched the man is super sweet. It was his first ever role acting and he does a great job. Also be prepared to hear a lot of random english in this show. Vegas will throw out lots of english which most was improv by the actor because even though he is born and raised in Thailand, Bible's first language is English since he went to international schools. Perth Nakhun who plays the bodyguard Ken is from Australian and also was encouraged to use English (He also has a great youtube channel where he talks about BL). I hope you guys stick with this show because I'm very curious to watch your reactions. Maybe next time you try a BL you go from one of the fluffier ones.

Natalie A

Another thing that should be mentioned when discussing Episode 4 is that this show is based on a novel. And that novel is… well… let’s just say that the showrunners have done an extraordinary job in adapting that novel, toning it down and making it much more nuanced and the characters much more likable. If this scene makes you uncomfortable, do not even attempt to read the novel. I know a lot of people are very excited about the novel being officially translated into english since they expect the novel to be like the show, and they are in for a very nasty surprise.

Fio

Without spoiling, all the consequences in this show are played out in the long game, so don't write it off too soon!

Lillijen

He was talking about the Australian guy well thats what he called him 🤣. I wish he would come out in more BL. I enjoyed him in my Engineer

Nancy

When you both got uncomfortable with Vegas giving an unconsensual hickey...I said "Uh Oh....wait a few minutes."

Lisa M T

Yeah I think we can all (hopefully) agree that this is wrong and definitely should not be replicated in real life. I can somewhat forgive it in fiction but in real life, I’d be calling the police 😂 This didn’t completely turn me off from the show and I absolutely love this show but it is by no means an easy episode to watch and I can understand the shock people get when they experience it for the first time. I think there’s this sort of underlying implication that because Porsche is drugged, this is partially his true self and what he wants. BUT we’ve seen people in real life r*pe cases use that same thinking against their victims, especially for women. So while I understand perhaps the intention, the execution is F-. I will say also that sex under the influence seems to be somewhat common amongst BLs. I’m not sure if it’s a cultural thing or what. I actually think KP addresses it more than some other BLs I’ve seen but that’s all I shall say lest we get into spoiler territory.

Lanie R.

I thought he was talking about the one on the glasses Arm?? If I forgot his name I apologize it's been a while since I watched this.

Lisa M T

MANY do.

Lisa M T

A gentle reminder not to post spoilers for upcoming episodes, as per Alex and Josh’s request, and the (pinned) Community Guidelines post. Therefore, please edit your post to removed the part about the specific episode that you reference, as knowing which episode something will happen in, is in fact a spoiler. -Moderator-

Sam S

Lol..... Yes!

Lisa M T

We did say that the characters are complex and morally grey. As Pete mentioned to Porsche in ep 1, there are no heros or villains. At least not in the way that we often think about those roles. I hope you guys keep watching so that you can see the aftermath of the ending scene. Almost everyone who is a fan of the show agrees that the sex scene had some dubious consent/non-consent going on which was not okay.

Anna

Whenever I see the gif of Tankhun whacking Vegas with the tray, I watch it cycle over and over, and just laugh and laugh 😂

Ivy Yap

It is a really good series that brings up many good discussions. So I hope you stick with it.

I_KPOP_Fan

It’s so different when both people are drunk…. but this is r*pe. And they’re glorifying it as a romantic moment. Holy hell.

Hannah Howden

I think one of the positive aspects of scenes like the last one is that it does create discussions around the issue of consent and consent under the influence, because there was a lot of healthy debates that came from this which included experts in the fields of health and mental health. So even though it was uncomfortable to watch it sparked debate.

StrawberryEyes

I get it , dear, I'm old enough that I have seen plenty of it. . . It was only a BL joke for fans of "Stay With Me". Because it' s Chinese BL, the hero cooly tells his dad the lube tube is "lip balm". Guess what his dad does next.

Saye

The best BL of all time

Joanna

I'm from Mexico and I've seen narco series, and this is light. They are certainly raw scenes that show that everywhere there are queer people, it's what I like, this series unlike others, shows how cruel life can be, and here it is interesting to see how they face this fact, because practically Kinn finished what Vegas planned, how will Porche react? we will see it in the next chapter hahaj. I hope they continue to give the series a chance and above all that they enjoy it, and to finish Kim is too handsome and talented, he sings like an angel, little seen among the actors of Bl, Jeff Satur deserves more recognition ♡

Lizeth Morpal

I hope you continue with the series as it is really very good.

D.A. Rowley

It was lube.

Ophelia

100 million in Thai Baht in USD and Pounds is 2 million and change +-.

D.A. Rowley

Whenever they talk about "fæn" in the series. It's used as both boyfriend & girlfriend in the Thai language. So the subtitles do give off confusion because they usually sub it as girlfriend unless we know for certain that a character only likes men. If they do want to specify, sometimes they add the word "P̄hū̂ h̄ỵing" (for woman) or "P̄hū̂chāy" (for man) after the word "fæn".

Lisa is a cow

Exactly. There was a mental health professional who did reactions. And he said, the thing with having sex under the influence is the person can be consenting in the moment but then wake-up and realize it was not what they wanted. Which is a risk to take. One Kinn shouldn’t have. But it’s different from the Vegas situation, where Porsche was clearly non-consenting and even headbutted him. Which showed he at least maintains his awareness. He felt threatened with Vegas, but mot with Kinn. But as you said, the only person who can decide if that was non-con is Porsche and how he draws his boundaries. But pointing out Porsche is used to having sex under the influence (not GHB, but alcohol, which is just as damning to cognitive impairment). It’s implied he has sex with his bar clients, who are drunk, and so is he, because they showed him doing shots in the pilot before fucking that girl. I think, without spoiling the journey, the show does a good job showing what he feels about what happened and not just brushing if off as many shows (and i am including non-queer western shows in here, not just BL) do. Examples: Gossip girl, Pretty Little Liars, The Vampire Diaries, Queer as Folk, The L Word, etc

Vish

If you watch more BL's especially those that have Uni or High School in them, you will find that signing shirts is a common practice in Asian countries--especially Thailand. They do this for Valentine, Christmas (yes they do celebrate this holiday), or for any reason. To us westerners it seems odd, lol.

D.A. Rowley

Please keep watching this series!

Shelby Frost Bay

I’m crazy for Jeff because of KP. If they don’t fall for Jeff’s music after KP then I’m appalled lmao.

Shelby Frost Bay

There are very few in this world that would see the sex scene as anything more than non-con or SA, but we have to keep in mind that this IS a mafia BL. The characters are all morally grey, criminals, murderers and masterminds. So, to us, as the audience (from a western lens) that was all kinds of wrong. But, in universe, we cannot make that call. Only Porche can decide if what happened between him and Kinn was ok and how he will deal with the aftermath. Its hard to watch scenes like that, but its also a good thing to bring attention to it. Situations like that spark conversations, and help people identify things that could or may happen in their life. Its a teaching moment, for sure. And, let me be clear, I will never side with Kinn in this situation (even knowing the book as well as I do.) What he did was unconscionable. I really do hope you guys continue to react to KP, though. Its a really intriguing story with lots of ups and downs.

Nini L

This episode is always the one I get kinda anxious about when watching reactions because of the content. I personally think (no spoilers) episodes 5 and 6 really determine whether one can "deal" with the way the show adresses these things, so I'm looking forward to your thoughts on that. I really appreciate your reaction & thoughts but of course you gotta have to be comfortable with the show to actually enjoy doing these reactions

Tina Oestreich

Very understandable! If you're interested there's behind the scenes videos for each episode in Youtube, and the one for this episode has a bit at the end where Kinn & Porsche's actors talk about this specifically. I found their perspective quite interesting.

Tina Oestreich

Yeah I really like episode 5 (& 6, though the translations in some parts don't do the dialogue justice from what I've heard, the Thai is apparently more direct) as a follow up to this. Plus it's, imho, Apo's best acting and maybe the best acting in the entire show

Tina Oestreich

I also think at least KP adresses them during the show, while some especially older BLs just kinda have the consent issues with no real acknowledgement

Tina Oestreich

Yes, it must be a fan edit. Jeff recorded a cover of that song with 3rd Tilly Birds

Tsuki

Man I feel like a hot massage would be the WORST thing for a hangover!! Also this episode is so fucked omg….

Hannah Howden

For me, the theme of this show is 'What does a relationship look like when there is no trust?' I like that these characters are complex people. Like Pete says, "There are no heroes or villains" But I don't need or want my entertainment to be all fluffy and cute all the time, so this show was to my taste. In a way, I think of this series as the anti-'Heartstopper'...is it's trying to teach anything, it might well be to not judge too quickly, because you probably don't have as much information as you think.

Michael Craig

He is also in Cutie Pie where his character name is Jay. Who is the owner of the Gemini bar.

D.A. Rowley

The fake cheese slice on ramen noodles is really good, but it's more of a texture thing. And they were a sponsor here, so they make it look extra good. And you can still eat it if you're lactose intolerant, like many East Asian people are.

Michael Craig

If they are into Troye Sivan, all they need to do is watch the video in which Jeff sings a cover of Angel, in alternance with Troye (a fan edit I think) . I know Troye filmed "Got me started" in Bangkok. I am not sure if the two actually met.

Saye

8 The Rocky Horror Picture Show effect : see 5 above. KP really needs a second and a third watching to have everything fall in place. Then you can properly enjoy it without getting constantly confused or missing on important hints . You also start seeing tsome characters and scenes in a very different light. This is why the show has become sort of cultish for many of us, who have seen some scenes over a 100 times. It was so funny that Josh anticipated "Disneylaaaaand " in an early reaction ! Moments like Tankhun slapping Vegas on the head with a tray we really look forward to . It has spawned gifs, memes, short videos...The equivalent of Eddie surging on his bike would be...You get the idea .

Saye

7 the BL as in Bilingual effect : I watch so much BL ( and before that , Kdrama) that I can easily tell when a character switches from Thai to Japanese, Korean or Chinese . In the meal scene, it's nerdy tech bodyguard Arm who speaks Chinese and says a book can't be judged by its cover ( I suppose it was Mandarin, I must watch a lot more (censored) BLs before I can tell the difference between Cantonese / Taiwanese and Mandarin Chinese ) . As for Vegas, his lines in English -mostly improvised on the set because that is in fact the language the actor grew up with- are all iconic and much loved by KP fans.

Saye

Yes but with the volume of bls produced, they are by and large a minority. It just so happens the more controversial the more (in)famous they are. But most BLS are actually quite PG

Luna

6 Where did I see this V guy before ? Answer : on the balcony, talking with his father ( the one who likes to have a little silk scarf around the neck) who specifically asked him to look into Porsche, the sub-par mystery new bodyguard. Vegas had a very different vibe then (and no silk shirt) , you did not pay much attention to him. How interesting !

Saye

5 First time watching effect : you can get so confused if you miss a single line or do not pay full attention, because characters and their dynamics briefly or weirdly appear in the scenes, but may be introduced properly in later episodes, as for Kim (or Vegas) . We knew Kinn had a younger brother , Kim. We knew Big was sent to him instead of his regular boss Kinn, because he was hurt and has to wear a cast . We knew Kim asked him for info about Porsche, and we know this is the brother who does not want to live in the family mansion or maybe not run the mafia business. In episode 4 we find out he is a senior graduate at the faculty of music . He is famous online where he posts content as Wik. Chay says that he is the reason he wanted to join that faculty. Why ? Because Chay is a fan. He is the one who (conveniently, for sure) approaches Wik (Kim) first ; he sure makes an impression on the older student . And lo and behold, later Kim realizes he is none other than Porsche's little bro .

Saye

4 The awkward non-shuffle curtain scene ( Josh's reaction was sooo funny) . It was not cream or lube , it was LIP BALM . Those who know, know .

Saye

3 We Need To Talk About The Cheese . Oh that got fans writing the best snarky comments and memes ! We did warn you about product placement

Saye

2 The Giant self portraits on the wall. Not sure if this is still the case, but they were definitely a trend at least in Korea last decade, I saw quite a lot in K Drama, and we know Thankhun watches them. Are/were they popular all over Asia ? Maybe so , but it gives a bit of nouveau riche (if not tacky ) vibe . It is supposed to be a sign of wealth.

Saye

I am really looking forward to their episode 5 reaction as well. I do not want to give spoilers but I think they will like episode 5 a lot especially how things are addressed. It is the episode that turned it around for me and got me really into the show.

Janine M Hall

In a world where even serial killers have fans, I wouldn't be surprised if there were some people who had no issues with episode 4. Glad we've never met any of them!

Ivy Yap

Anyway, episode 4 is so rich ,many things happening, let me try and anwers some of your questions or puzzlements . 1 THE SPA. Bodyguard Pol mentions going to the onsen/not being able to see Porsche balls . Thai people are fascinated with aspects of Korean, Japanese or Chinese culture, and vice-versa. "Onsen" is a public bath very popular in Japan, where you can relax ( nowadays with separate genders , did not used to be, not so long ago the same existed in Europe) . The idea is you must go there naked .

Saye

This is really interesting. Thanks for sharing.

Sam S

Nobody thought it was okay ! I have yet to meet a fan who did not engage into serious conversation about it - but always about how much showing Sa / non consent / dubious consent was necessary or not in the two scenes . But many fans think that it was absolutely the POINT and a definition of the complicated and messy situation Porsche and Kinn are into . It's a sort of litmus test for the show. The fans who did not go past episode 4 have no idea how the aftermath was shown and how it affected the rest of the story...

Saye

There a three main storylines in the show and they just introduced Kim and Porshay's in this episode.

mkbozier

He has done some really good Q&A videos about his acting career in BLs. He’s so, so sweet.

Sam S

It's good that you guys aren't into Jeff Satur's music..... yet. Otherwise the Wik/Kim twist wouldn't have worked on you XDDD Because he appears in the intro as Kim since episode 1 and you would have spotted him instantly if you had watched even just one of his music videos (yes, he is THAT good)

Tsuki

As much as there are BL shows that are lovely, sweet and cutesy, KinnPorsche isn’t a total outlier where scenes like this are concerned. I can think of several where non-con appears in one form or another.

Sam S

- What's wrong with these people? Well, idk, maybe they're heirs of one of the most powerful mafia clans in Thailand?.. Actually the disclamer before each episode literally says "it is not intended to promote any action in the series. Viewer's discretion is advised". So yeah, the authors aren't supporting all the killing, torturing, SA and other crimes. They just tell a story about this kind of environment, show how different ppl act in those situations (sometimes good, sometimes bad) and how those actions affect their life later. It's fun sometimes until it's not fun anymore, and this switch is often sudden. It's all in grey area, no entierly good or bad ppl here. All of these people have at least two sides, even nice and cute Tankhun can intimidate Vegas if he wants cause he's older brother of Kinn, let's not forget. We have a mole, we have some ppl plotting smth, it's definitely not a Disneyland.

Mikomi

many conversations for sure lol. and, I liked TharnType but I do wish the acting in it would’ve been better. I enjoyed the second one as well, and the Fiat & Leo spin off we got from it was well which also had questionable aspects but I also enjoyed.

jermani

Sidenote on the subtitles: Apart from hilariously censoring the swearwords, a lot of nuances get lost in translation. I watched someone fluent in Thai reacting to the show and they kept stopping the episodes to explain the actual dialogue and why it actually meant something completely different sometimes. It was really eye opening. They also explained a lot around Thai culture and religion which was very interesting. The show actually has a lot of easter eggs in it that we westerners are oblivious to. Like that scene in last episode when the bartender drifted behind the bar with the fans blowing her hair was a reference to a very famous Thai rocker.

Fio

This episode is one of the reasons why everyone said you really jumped into the deep end starting with Kinnporsche. The show doesn't shy away from the mafia trope and makes pretty much everyone in the show a morally grey character (except for my angel Chay). With that said, I would totally understand if this made you stop watching this show, but I hope it doesn't dissuade you from BLs altogether. As many have said, this one is an outlier in terms of darker subject matter. But aside from all that - you finally met Kim! (Wik - Kim, get it? He really used all his creativity to come up with that stage name.) I was so excited about that that I totally forgot about the dubious sex scene, making it very clear where my priorities lie in this series.

Steph K

Oh yes, and he’s totally into Pokemon and the most amazing cute & funny guy when he gets all excited about them.

Fio

I mean I loved Tharntype but there is a lot of problematic themes in that drama too. I think although Thailand is pretty progressive and open minded towards LGBT people there is still conversations that need to be had.

Kimberley

I said after

Kimberley

this did episode did have some questionable actions, and morally insensitive decisions but I do believe we are all adults, and know that morally questionable things have already been done. I agree that this isn't the best representation of thai bl that I was first introduced to, but as media in any other hetero-normative relasonship/s has it's moments where it could've been this, or that, or better without this. This is a script, and something two consenting adults decided to create & showcase, I do urge you to keep watching the show because as you've both lovely people have said it does tackle issues less common, which is uncomfortable to sit in at times but on the other end you learn. <3333

jermani

I think almost all fans of this show acknowledge that what happened at the end of the episode was NOT okay.

Ivy Yap

Yeah this is really something to start out with as your first BL. You didn't get eased in to the genre with one of the more fluffy romcom ones, you jumped right into it head first. I understand your dislike of both what Vegas did(I really don't like him!) and the scene with Kinn and Porsche after he was drugged and still high. Kinn has feelings for him, but he should not have done it while he was in that state. If they were both drunk and into it maybe, but not this. Porsches brother met Kinns younger brother, who is a singer and I think his stage name is Wik, but as you know his real name is Kim. Porschay is a fan of him.(I can understand why it might not make sense/ seem (a bit) random at first watch.) I think(correct me if I'm wrong, its been a while since I last saw it) that Kim is the brother they were talking about in the sauna, that Kinn hadn't seen in quite a while.

Sara Nissen

Ooooh yeah yeah yeah (she loves them yeah yeah yeah Beatlemania-style) . Existential crisis : do I watch straight away, or do I actually take the time to put my shopping out of the bags and into the frige ?

Saye

- Why do I sense it's gonna be bad? - Why do I sense it's gonna look good? Most of KinnPorsche in a nutshell XD

Mikomi

No, spoilers but keep watching. There is an aftermathe due to the intimacy between Kinn and Porsche. The incident has an effect and the show does explore it and that's all I am saying.

Belinda S

well... some scenes are intended to provoque mixed or even bad feelings in viewers. That's actually good that you feel uncomfortable watching it I think, exactly cause you realize it would be bad in real world, but probably is ok in the world where Kinn lives, where people are treated like toys etc. When they show it through the characters that you care about, it hits harder, and that's the point.

Mikomi

Stick with it. You'll be able to keep watching. I mean, these people are all messed up and morally grey, but there's a level of awareness of that in the writing that keeps it from being too uncomfortable.

Cassy G

Mile and Apo gave an excellent comments about this particular scene. And no, this music isn't just romantic, it's also sad actually. I always interpreted it as regret about what could be in other life situation etc, but ended up like this and they'll have to deal with it from now on. It's a fascination when you watch a disaster happening and find weird beauty in it, even if you know that it's wrong. Yes, this show uses it a lot, and masterfully. Not everything should be perceived directly, and it's always better to wait until the situation resolves before judging.

Mikomi

No spoilers.....just keep watching...I promise.

Keyette Johnson

That's why I always feel a bit ugh when people's first introduction to BL is Kinnporshe. It's a good show, well-made and I enjoy it. But BL isn't just 'fanfic' stories with unsensitive subjects and bad representation. There are lots of BLs that have great representation with GOOD queer, realistic stories.

Ophelia

Oh it was GHB. I wasn't sure whether it was that or another 'date rape' type drug. Thanks!

suga93hoodie

Please know that most BLs don't have SA content. So, I hope this doesn't dissuade you from watching other ones. There's a reason why so many people don't like this one. I'm not a hater of this show btw. I watched it and enjoyed a lot of it, but I wouldn't blame you if you didn't want to continue.

Jose

It’s GHB. It’s known as a “date rape” drug.

Ophelia

Hey the bodyguard u said that looks cute he has a YouTube channel called Perth nakhun

Nancy

Im watching Kinnporsche for the first time through your reactions. The scene with a not so sober Porsche and a very aware Kinn made me feel quite uncomfortable… even though I’m pretty sure this is possibly happening in the real world. Don’t really know how to feel about it….

Frances

I was laughing so much at you guys' comments throughout this reaction. And then comes the last like 15 minutes where things get dark. And I totally feel you. That scene at the end is hands down the most uncomfortable scene I've ever watched in a BL. The romantic music definitely does feel like they're trying to make the scene into something it isn't. I get why they chose to do it that way, but it does gives a misguided impression of romance, I think. it's very much not consensual. This show is basically Power-Imbalance The Show. I'm really looking forward to seeing what you think about episode 5, the aftermath of this.

suga93hoodie

on netflix there is the first gay dating show from japan airing. 3 episodes are already out and it‘s really good! just fyi😅

yeosangwoo

It must be watched AFTER episode 6. Not before. it spoils the ending of episode 6.

suga93hoodie

I'm not even a minute in and I'm in hysterics already wtf bahahahahahahahaha 😂😂😂

Jasmine

NO spoilers, just want to say that after this episode aired, the production company put out a statement about the drug Porsche was drugged with. I forgot the name of it, but basically in Thailand, it is legally considered that people under the influence of this drug cannot consent. So the show is fully acknowledging that this was non consensual.

suga93hoodie

Let's face it, their whole relationship is kind of not okay even when they're completely sober just based on the extreme power imbalance between the 2 of them. I mean, Kinn essentially blackmailed Porsche into taking the job in the first place. Not a stellar start all around...

Mandi Mateer

21:28 Good observation about the translation. The word in Thai is "faen", and it means both girlfriend and boyfriend. They play a lot with it in these type of series, where someone mentions his/her "faen" and the gender of the person is assumed by someone else.

Tsuki

Also, us westernized people only see things from our viewpoint and not what is acceptable in the eastern world. Like age of consent in Thailand and most Asian countries is around the age of 16 even though you are not considered an adult until 20. And you can get married at 17 w/o parental . So we as westerners get all up in arms about other countries ways. Good or bad not my place to judge it just is that way in other parts of the world.

D.A. Rowley

The bl is set in a normal universe. It's just very common in bl series for a lot of the main characters to be queer and paired off. It's not built into the plot of the story that everyone is assumed as gay/queer.

Emily Willmer

I will say that they usually use the term แฟน (Faen), which can mean girlfriend/boyfriend, it is a gender neutral term for a partner. The subtitles will sometimes say girlfriend or boyfriend depending on the context.

Kloee

The alarm background sound when Vegas is in frame is absolute hilarious

Onesan Talks

S-U-N 🤣🤣🤣 how is it possible that you guys can crack me up within the first minute?! 😂😂😂

Frances

Heyy amazing reaction per usual just wanted to point out some things that you were discussing? around 21:20 mark :)) so in Thai actually the word for "girlfriend" and "boyfriend" is the same (แฟน/faen) there is no gender difference so the subtitles weren't super accurate there (though we can probably assume that Porsche did mean "girlfriend" since he doesn't know - like a dumbass - that Kinn is gay yet and he follows it up with the word สาว/săao which means a young woman). Also I think it was not super accurate to say that in BL it's typical that the world is normalised about gay people, more so that it's very common that there are multiple gay storylines that we follow and that's what the "everyone's gay" means. Homophobia still exists in majority of works (unless basically stated otherwise -for example in Bad Buddy: the series, the author mentions she was writing a world without homophobia- you can assume the world is like ours people will be accepting or they won't), here in Kinnporsche in episode 1, Don, the Italian mafia boss was homophobic to Kinn (asking if he still likes gelato was a dig at his preferences) and Porsche never even considered the option, the world is just like ours it just so happens everyone is rather queer around here lmao

Anna

Ngl for a second I thought Josh was speaking about Alex having an actual mouse

Aster

So excited for your reaction to this episode. by the way don't know how far you are in your watching but there is a bonus scene you can watch on YouTube I reccomend watching after ep 6 it's titled Kinnporsche side story it's about 10 minutes.

Kimberley

Yes!! Been needing this reaction This is definitely the episode that started all the fighting in the ‘fandom’ - gods the amount of people that kept watching just to hate on it was ridiculous Anyway, I’m all for Porsche’s first time (because it’s fictional, and not real) and I’m eager to see your reactions to future things that caused more pearl clutching 😂

Teddy

Finally is here! Been waiting for a week!! 🤗🤗

米分刀巴