Japanese Phonetics Episode 37โLIVE (Updated with native recordings!)
Added 2018-03-04 10:00:59 +0000 UTCBibliography
Japanese Phonetics Index Page
Good evening Patrons! The thirty-seventh episode of Japanese Phonetics is live, now updated with native recordings! In this lesson we explore vowel combinations, including standard sequences such as [a][i], as well as the more complicated ใใ and ใใ. Incidentally, after uploading this lesson I found a rather obscure Japanese article which contains some additional information on ใใ vs. ใใผ; I intend on addressing this information in episode 39.
As always, if you have any questions or concerns with regards to this lesson, don't hesitate to leave a comment below. Thank you very much for your continued support, and good luck with your Japanese studies!
Best from Beppu,
Dลgen
Comments
I vaguely remember at some point in the series "To Your Eternity" when the main character was learning to speak, the girl taught him ใใใใจใ as ใใปใใปใใปใจใปใ distinguishing each sound. If I remember correctly, the ใ was pronounced distinctly as ใ. Is ใใใใจใ another exception in slower speech, or is there something else going on here? Thanks!
Enoch
2025-07-17 23:12:54 +0000 UTCHi, Sebastian. JP here, Dลgen's business partner. I'm helping manage the messages here on Patreon. This is articulated separately, as you can hear in the entries on Forvo (https://ja.forvo.com/word/ใใใก_(ใๅฎถ)/#ja).
Dogen
2022-10-27 05:11:06 +0000 UTCAccording to my professor writing ใใ for a long "o" sound only happens in words of japanese origin and this is due to phonological change from ใใ-> ใใ, or ใใป-> ใใ. That is how the words were pronounced in older forms of japanese, so ๅคงใใ would have been pronounced closer to ใใปใใ, and ๅๆฅ as ใจใใ. This affects only a small number of words, only about 20 or so words, so the easy step is to just memorize these and otherwise just write long "o" as ใใ
Vetle Selbรฆk Pedersen
2022-10-17 20:53:02 +0000 UTChi dogen, what happens when the ใ is used as a prefix as in ใๅฎถ (ใใใก)? i think both are completely articulated, is it like that?
Sebastian Santacruz
2022-04-16 00:54:52 +0000 UTCHi Matt. My main field is phonetics, so I'm not entirely sure about this one, but I believe the spelling and the kanji are simply intrinsically linked. That is to say, ๅ is ใจใ, rather than ใจใ, while ๆฑ is ใจใ, rather than ใจใ. This, in my understanding is simply determined by each word's origin and history, so I unfortunately can't give any more information on this. And yes, it is my understanding that the ๅคง in ๅคง้ช and ๅคงใใ are both pronounced as ใใผ. Cheers.
Dogen
2020-06-05 11:48:11 +0000 UTCThanks for your reply. Sorry, I should have asked more precisely because my question is about why for example ใใใใ (ๅคง้ช) or ใใใใ (ๅคงใใ) is spelled with ใใ instead of ใใ. When I started learning Japanese, I struggled a lot because I wasn't sure it makes any difference in terms of pitch or vowel articulation. From the pronunciation POV, both ใใใใ and ใใใใ are pronounced as ใใผ I believe. Please correct me if I am wrong.
Matt
2020-06-05 06:04:34 +0000 UTCHi Matt. They are identical in some circumstances, and different in others. I explain when ใใ is pronounced as ใใ, and when it is pronounced as ใใ in the above video from 4:48. Cheers!
Dogen
2020-06-05 04:45:04 +0000 UTCHi Dogen, this is a very interesting topic! Do you have any thoughts on ใใ and ใใ? In terms of pronunciation, are they identical? Thanks!
Matt
2020-06-04 14:06:21 +0000 UTCHi Jason! Yes, this is indeed trueโthe ใ in ๆใ is articulated as an ใ, rather than an elongated ใ. That said, there are certainly times when native speakers say the word quickly and drop the ใ entirely, as in ใใ. Hope this helps, cheers!
Dogen
2020-05-14 07:08:52 +0000 UTCHi Dogen! You've solved a mystery for me. I assume that ๆใ also follows the rule like the other example verbs in this video. I noticed the articulation of the ใ in a song years ago and spent a long time thinking it was a weird mistake or something. Thank you for bringing me clarity!
Jason Crouse
2020-05-14 05:30:54 +0000 UTCOh shoot, thanks for the heads up, Alex. Will try to fix this very soon!
Dogen
2018-07-22 08:03:37 +0000 UTCYou have an error in the captions here <a href="https://youtu.be/NJrOjpg3TLs?t=1m7s" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://youtu.be/NJrOjpg3TLs?t=1m7s</a> when you say "It's not [aส] but [a] + [o]". It should be [aส], not [oส]. Great series, man!
Alex Rogers
2018-07-21 09:45:15 +0000 UTCYes, you should! ^^
Dogen
2018-06-24 11:01:48 +0000 UTCSo I should be pronouncing the voltional of ่ชใ ใใใ๏ผใใผ ? :D
Thorn
2018-06-24 02:16:41 +0000 UTCIt's my pleasure, Nicholas! Thank you for your support!
Dogen
2018-03-06 09:43:53 +0000 UTCDogen, this is awesome stuff man. I really appreciate it, thanks!
N
2018-03-06 02:37:35 +0000 UTCThanks for the catch, Sascha. Uploading a new version right nowโshould be fixed within the hour. With regards to the vowel at 6:30, this is most likely me overcompensating for the lack of rounding in Japanese. ใ, as you're most likely aware, is compressed in Japanese; I may have 'over-compressed' the sound just a bit as I'm very conscious about not rounding due to the high number of native speakers who use this series. My personal analysis! Thanks again for the ๆๆ and good luck with your studies!
Dogen
2018-03-04 11:57:36 +0000 UTCHey Filip! Great question. Yes, I do think this is intentional on the part of the woman. If you look at the waveform for the clip, you can see that her utterance is longer than the man's. Furthermore, I don't have too much context to work with, but it sounds like the woman is clarifying, which usually results in more deliberate speech. This would coincide with the 'articulated in slower, more deliberate or careful speech' idea. Hope this helps! Great question!
Dogen
2018-03-04 11:35:16 +0000 UTCAnother useful video, another set of mysteries clarified. Thank you. I've been recording myself along with audio from the Shadowing book (<a href="https://shop.whiterabbitjapan.com/products/shadowing-lets-speak-japanese-beginner-intermediate" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://shop.whiterabbitjapan.com/products/shadowing-lets-speak-japanese-beginner-intermediate</a>ยจยจ) and in the first lesson, there's this "dialogue": F: ใใใ? M: ใใใใ The first "ใใใ" is pronounced as "ใใใปใ", and the second one as ใใใผ" (<a href="https://soundcloud.com/user-44032890/kirei-kiree/s-bsJBt" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://soundcloud.com/user-44032890/kirei-kiree/s-bsJBt</a>ยจ). Do you think this is just random or do you see some explanation for this? Thank you.
Filip Kostka
2018-03-04 11:22:46 +0000 UTCFirst of all, the title screen is wrong :) A question though: I noticed that in the examples around 6:30, you pronounce the vowels with rather heavy friction, almost more like [oฮฒ]. I had not noticed that before and am curious whatโs up with that.
Sascha Baer
2018-03-04 10:38:50 +0000 UTC
