Tangent: Parasocial Relationships

Women hate men so much they'll pick Liberace over an actual real life husband. Same girl. (Pardon the slew of comments I'm binging these after the AMA)

Armany Habed

You should put this on your main channel! I’d love to be able to direct my students to it (I teach on media and politics and we read and talk about parasocial relationships. This video really added a lot to my knowledge and broadened my perspective. I have often referenced the Horton and Wohl paper and never read it. I am now inspired to read it and maybe assign it to my students as well).

Rachel Meade

When you connected parasocial with spiritual relationships it really captured my experience with Christianity. It's interesting to think of how a very intense parasocial relationship with Jesus was encouraged from childhood. Then around 12 years old I saw LOTR and I started talking to Frodo in my head more than I prayed to Jesus. It felt like a very real moral crisis to me at the time. Especially because the love I felt from this fictional character was sometimes similar to what I felt in the good experiences with Jesus. I haven't been a believer for years and thinking back to the hand wringing I was doing back then was hard to explain in retrospect because it seems like for most people being an obsessive fan of something as a pre teen didn't cause a spiritual crisis. Lol Comparing religious experiences to that of "Snape wives" really hit the nail on the head in describing some of the confusing things I felt back then.

Allison

Okay the tiny monkey on the cloth mother...I feel physical pain whenever she shows up. 🥺🥺🥺

Sunjay

This has gotten me thinking about my one parasocial relationship to Contra as a gender questioning 23 year old. In life I find that my friends (while lovely and smart) are unable or unwilling to discuss or consider complex topics. Since being a teenager I feel like I’ve been piecing parts if my brain together with video essays, and now some creators feel as much a part if me as my long term friends! Like the housewives seeing Liberace as their other, more sensitive husband—Contra is my intelligent and wise friend. But of course not really.

Bryn Wilson

I still can't believe how stupid your cancelation was. I hope you know that a lot of people here parasocially love you 🩷

Femininja

Do you think that parasocial relationships apply to people that are not famous? That's what can be the difference between tv and social media. That you can follow someone in social media that's not famous and feel that you know them even if you don't know them in "real life"

Femininja

Someone tell me what movie is shown at 34 mins because i am pissing myself and want to watch it immediately.

bronson kerr

Great video, but I wish Natalie didn't feel the need to include dead animals in her videos... the poor octopus corpse being mutilated is just so unnecessary. I'd quite like to keep the vystopia to a minimum, conscious that this isn't quite parasocial, just a request for those of us who don't want to partake in animal suffering as a comedic relief.

Anxious Wolfdog

Great now I have a parasocial crush on Liberace

Hedda Thunström

hearing the part about Grizzly Man with the meme about women choosing bears over a man to be alone on a forest in mind it's very funny I must say

Paola Nicoll Alzuru Castillo

this is so true my best friend in the world<3 cant wait to see you in *local city* soon!!!

Effie

Natalie talking about religion is one of my favourite things. Her form of atheism could not be more different from the Richard Dawkins and Ricky Gervaises of the world, who can only shit on religion in a way that makes them seem totally obnoxious and unreasonable, whereas Natalie - while quite clearly being staunchly atheist - talks about it with a clear understanding of the role it serves in people’s lives and presents her fascinating secular takes in a way that is intelligent (and genuinely a little boundary-pushing to my pea-brain), without being a cunt. It’s honestly impressive as hell.

Theo Stratford

I have to assume you’ve read George Lakoff’s Moral Politics, with that whole part about stern father/loving mother—such a good reference in this tangent! As a person in my 40s who joined fandom for the first time recently, parasociality has been on my mind and I really enjoyed your thoughts. 💖

demolitionwoman

My sister (born in 2000) considers Justin Bieber to be her "Astral Boyfriend". It doesn't mess with her real life, it's mostly a goof, but also not. He is her boyfriend in her literal and figureative dreams. She would never harass him irl. The astral Bieber is enough for her

Teageen

In the intro to the film he says bears are dangerous and can kill but then says they will never kill him and that he wants to become their master. It wasn't that he thought they were friendly and cuddly so much as he thought that, like pets, he could gain their trust/respect and form a bond with them that would cancel out the danger.

Mary

Does anyone have the link to the Liberace video used at the end? I can't seem to find the specific clip on youtube

athena

I find Grizzly Man discourse very fascinating, because literally everyone, including Herzog, seems to think Treadwell thought the bears were friendly pets. But he explicitly spoke -- in the film we all saw -- about how dangerous they were and how vigilant he needed to be at all times. I have my theories, but I'm not sure where this posthumous caricature comes from.

Couch Table

You really hit the nail on the head with this topic. I went through a time after a pretty bad friend breakup where I felt incapable of making "real" friends and I relied heavily on the parasocial relationships I had with youtubers, and it really got me through that. I always knew that the relationship was synthetic but it still helped my brain feel less alone.

Awhina

it might be that your internet disconnected

Sappho's Friend

hi everyone, is this video archived? i can't see this or any former tangent- help please(:

Thanks for the video, mother. See you next month.

Sarah Hall

I wanted to watch this because I thought it might give me some insights into the Critical Role fandom - and it really did! - but also as the atheist child of two pastors, I loved the theory about parasocial relationships with Jesus.

I have a parasocial relationship with Santa Claus

Also really resonates with Raymond Williams’ Marxist reading of the sadomasochistic dynamic within romantic relationships in Brontë novels (looking @ you Charlotte) (Emily is more complicated imo) (and idgaf about what the other feminists say Anne is just too straightforward)

as a medievalist who has been working on late medieval 'mystic' writings (english & continental) for some time now and who, in her youth, was partial to (forgive me god for i have sinned) the occasional 'snamione' fic... im 1 hr 16 in and oh jhesu christi i just got read so fucking hard aaaaaaaaaa. such a slay.

What social media contributes to parasocial relationships isn't a *change* in the basic relationship, but am expansion of it by democratizing it. Anyone can become the focus of such a relationship without having either the talent or the hard work necessary to become a Liberace. This does NOT change that being successful on YouTube requires talent---but is does mean that you don't have to impress the managers of ABC, NBC, or CBS to get your program on!

Thank you so much for this Natalie. As a small creator/artist I have experienced both sides of the parasocial experience. Maybe it isn't that these are a new thing, but maybe with the advent of social media and the internet, it is just more common for people to experience the "performer" side of it, and that's why so many people feel it is a new thing? I am currently trying to navigate boundaries as I do a lot of in person, public events and have severe social anxiety.

Raven

Hey Natalie, your argument about how parasocial relationships and politics are connected was awesome! Here in Brazil, we've had some so-called "father figures" like the Nazi Bolsonaro (at least for some of his voters). He did a bunch of live streams that looked like they were filmed by a kid, showed up wearing shorts or even used a surfboard as a table (seriously, I know), said some pretty nonsensical things (like racist and homophobic stuff), and even cracked a few "uncle jokes." But a lot of his voters felt like this made him seem more approachable and friendly, and he always had the excuse of being homophobic and racist because he was seen as an old-fashioned but affectionate "uncle/father" figure. Oh, and your comment on Hillary Clinton totally reminds me of Dilma, our ex-president from the Workers' Party.

First Tangent for me and wow. I can only imagine how extreme the parasocial delusions get for some of your fans. Being trans is fucking hard. It's full of questioning and doubt and external rejection. But you speak with an authority and a sense of wholeness that baby trans folks can only dream of. Salute to you for the obvious hard work and investment you put into your videos

I like your interpretation of Snapewives in the context of a coping mechanism for intelligent women trying to concoct a man worthy of their submission.

Jordan

I had never heard of parasocial relationships before this video, but I have a bit more understanding now. Thank you for the excellent explanation. Did you teach as a graduate student? Your students must have enjoyed your lectures; you have amazing talent.

Fondness is one thing, entitlement is another - it doesn't sound like you felt entitled to that musician's experience with her dad, which would feel a bit closer to I think a parasocial relationship. It sounds like you are self-aware enough to tell the difference between feeling like you can relate to the experience itself, like in a book, being able to relate to a character, and claiming the experience for yourself.

Recently a musician I liked posted on instagram that her father had passed away. One of her songs was unambiguously about her dad, and it's one I'd listened to a lot and related to, so I had an emotional reaction to that post. Immediately I felt really weird about that -- is it even any of my business? and, just because I've listened to her one song doesn't mean I really understand her relationship with her dad -- that sort of thing. But I also figured that, ya know, it's not weird to think a sad thing is sad. But I think where it gets weird, is that things like comments aren't necessarily expressions of empathy, and I did check and saw a lot that even in minor ways kind of crossed a line. There's a selfishness to unloading your own experiences as a way of getting comfort from someone who is particularly not equipped to offer it (doesn't know you, has her own grief). I get a little freaked out every time I develop a kind of fondness for public figures because there is this kind of stigma about having the delusion that you could judge someone's character just from their work and public persona. It's very, "oh you don't know them, they could be a jerk" thing. But fondness is a pleasant feeling -- I like that musician's work and from everything I know about her she seems cool. Maybe she's secretly a raging asshole idk, but it's all together nicer to just go off the available info, and enjoy feeling positively towards someone.

AH YES. A new interesting video from my cool aunt- I mean, woman I watch online and don't know at all.

Alana Tedmon

This video is really fantastic, thank you for making it and sharing it. :)

sunlit_music