Mad Men 4x09 Reaction
Added 2025-11-22 20:47:05 +0000 UTCwhat even is this run of episodes
Comments
Just like how it becomes less impressive to me every time I see someone realize for the first time that this show is focused more on gender than race.
Kev
2025-11-25 03:33:48 +0000 UTCI think so too but I prefer her misreading because the original comment made it sound like Betty's story is done and transferred to Sally when that definitely isn't true.
Kev
2025-11-25 03:24:08 +0000 UTCmonster
Ajeel
2025-11-24 21:18:17 +0000 UTCMcCann is a huge company, which is more or less the entire reason for our characters resisting working there over the entirety of the series. What is the likelihood of other agencies knowing the specific demographics of mid-level staff at McCann? Not sure Ad Age would’ve been eager to feature them. I wasn’t there so I don’t know, but I don’t think portraying Peggy as having a well-meaning and progressive but ill-informed view of the experience of black people in her industry is inaccurate or dishonest. The flowers incident later in the series is pretty consistent with this.
Toban Allison
2025-11-24 16:15:49 +0000 UTC"No one wanted me there" ... Really? What about Freddy? What about Don? She's in her position because there were men at the company willing to give her the opportunity and support her. It's unknown whether they would've offered the same opportunity to a black man. I suppose it's possible but it seems highly unlikely. If a black elevator attendant caught Freddy's attention by inadvertently giving him a good tagline, would they even consider "hey this guy's talented, let's get him out of the elevator and bring him on board!" I doubt it would even cross their minds, they would just steal the idea and leave it at that.
Taya
2025-11-24 15:33:24 +0000 UTCIf I’m recalling the same comment as Milena on Sally/Betty, I think it was more so about Betty’s storyline being continued through Sally because Sally is a product of Betty, than it was about Sally’s storyline showing what Betty went through.
JJ
2025-11-24 10:57:48 +0000 UTClike cursory search and now i know about black graphic designer Georg Olden "In 1960, he began to work in advertising and went on to design the Clio Award as well as receive seven of them. That same year, he moved to BBDO as the TV group art supervisor. In 1963, he became the VP-senior art director at the major firm, McCann Erickson." yet in the show it's almost the 70s and still hasn't shown black people in anything but subordinate social positions. come on and it's crazy that tidbit was arguably the least interesting aspect of his life "After moving to Los Angeles, California, Olden started a class-action lawsuit against McCann Erickson for discrimination on behalf of himself and other black designers but was shot to death by live-in girlfriend Irene Mikolajczyk, who was arrested and tried a few days before the class action lawsuit was scheduled to begin. She pleaded not guilty and was acquitted in court" WHAT
on crip ...
2025-11-24 06:47:21 +0000 UTCpeggy mentions interviewing ppl/having power to hire. she could make a difference if she wanted on earlier episodes i wanted to say that the men in the creative dept. (include abe now) are pretty much left-wing men in 2025, still blind to their misogyny. & after this episode, have to point out that white women in america 2025 pretty much have the same pov as peggy, if not worse. they've been consistently voting republican for the past 3 decades at least and related but unrelated, this show's writing is a lot less impressive now that im older sorry to say. it's still entertaining tho while screaming basically zero poc in that writing room
on crip ...
2025-11-24 06:38:26 +0000 UTCThis episode featured three professional white women in the elevator of a big time new york ad agency. Three different roles, three different personalities and paths, all with a place for them at this agency. And still the only black people that have been in that elevator were the doormen. I always think of this whenever I get to Peggy essentially saying black people just haven't fought as hard as she has to get in the door. A door that's actually been held wide open for white women from the beginning of the show. It's one of the most beautifully expressed depictions of second wave and white feminism.
Random Random
2025-11-24 01:32:27 +0000 UTCI burst out laughing when Peggy read the title ‘Neuenburg on Madison Avenue’ cause I knew exactly what kind of essay he had written.
Patrick
2025-11-23 22:28:03 +0000 UTCThe show has mostly gotten away from the ham-fisted “Look, it’s happening in the past!” stuff since Season 1, but Abe’s oh sure we’ll have a civil rights march for *girls* dialogue is a bit too cute for me.
Mike
2025-11-23 19:17:49 +0000 UTCThe decline started around the mid 1960's. It was still a beautiful city full of old money in the early 1960's. The show does a pretty good job of showing the decline. Still wish it was actually filmed in NYC, but that's a different topic.
Alex Bernier
2025-11-23 16:43:40 +0000 UTCAbe has ‘first college boyfriend’ vibes for sure
Isaiah Bryant
2025-11-23 15:24:40 +0000 UTCI said it elsewhere but the shiny "New York, New York" Manhattan you see in movies and go visit today is a world away from the 60s. Basically up until the mid-90s, many neighborhoods were considered really seedy and bad. Times Square in the 80s was called "the sleaziest neighborhood in america", filled with brothels and sex shops, 'peep shows', strip bars, all sorts of wild stuff. When Rudy Guiliani was Mayor he spearheaded a massive redevelopment project - "cleaning up" and intentional gentrification - and the result is what we see today, shiny sanitized Times Square with ad billboards and an M&M store. This movement also crushed a lot of the edge of the city - it ironed out people living on the edges: queer folks, sex workers, certain immigrant groups. The history of New York is really fascinating and I recommend searching for pics of Times Square, Hells Kitchen in the 20th century, it's wild. The Peggy and Abe convos are interesting to me because Peggy is a young (white) woman who has never really thought critically about politics except in the narrow lens of experiencing sexism in the workplace. She's never once considered helping sell harmful products could be bad, or that she works with clients who are very intentionally racist. Of course her mentor was Don Draper who, while having some limited "political" stances, probably imprinted his "nothing matters but the work", "sucks for oppressed people but 🤷" mindset on her. Bonus Thoughts: This episode is a feast for random connections between women characters. Don's puts down his journal and picks up a drink, oof. "She was an astronaut" is a line that's always stayed with me, there are almost no comically 1-dimensional characters in Mad Men, even weirdo libertarian "kill or be killed" Bert Cooper can spit poetry in the right sad circumstances.
Kara
2025-11-23 15:04:07 +0000 UTC"Megan, get a man" and the man is Pete .......
Taya
2025-11-23 14:31:56 +0000 UTCI think Betty would fucking love to be a pot if Don had just let her.
Sebastian
2025-11-23 12:51:51 +0000 UTCIt's really frustrating to watch. Sally's such a great kid and absolutely nobody just talks to her. She's mostly just ordered around and berated.
Sebastian
2025-11-23 12:49:11 +0000 UTCIt's never shown, but the fact that Joan asks for a man to help with the body, and it winds up being Pete, makes me think that Pete heavily insisted on being the volunteer because it was once again his idea of what a real man does.
Father of the Year
2025-11-23 10:47:24 +0000 UTCRIP Mrs Blankenship, what a character. You can see Christina Hendricks almost laughing at the 'she died surrounded by people she answered phones for' line. When Don asks Faye to watch Sally she says 'I don't have much child psychology'. She talks to her like a psychologist too. Everyone holds Sally at arm's length, treats her like younger than she is except Megan. She's the only one who speaks to her on her level, 'I fall all the time too'. I sympathise with these characters, but honestly more than ever I find myself wishing they'd put Sally's feelings ahead of their own. Sally needs her mother and father to be 'pots' for her.
Mark M
2025-11-23 09:46:19 +0000 UTCWow, these are all bangers. I totally forgot this episode and the suitcase were the same season. This was the episode that made me fall in love with Sally as a character. She instantly became one of my favs. I’m very protective of her. And it is this episode that made me. All it took was a hug. It took a stranger and neither of her parents to give her just a simple hug. It’s warmth when both her parents are cold.
Haye Zeus
2025-11-23 06:55:18 +0000 UTCAll the most important women in Don's life in one room
Taya
2025-11-23 04:37:48 +0000 UTCRIP to the Queen of Perversions
Mike
2025-11-23 03:26:58 +0000 UTCAlso, shout out to Faye - I really like her character. Well-grounded and typically the most sensible person in the room.
Chidi.
2025-11-23 02:13:12 +0000 UTCIt was Roger who had sex with Blankenship, not Bert. She was just Bert's secretary and he has obviously known her for a long time. Roger says in his journal recording that he thinks that's why Bert hated him.
Kev
2025-11-23 01:55:43 +0000 UTCI hate that I feel sorry for betty and don half the time and in the other half, they’re pissing me off
Virgil Hawkins
2025-11-23 01:54:08 +0000 UTC25:32 One of my favorite shots of the whole show
Kev
2025-11-23 01:28:14 +0000 UTCLet's not act like Peggy was referring to black women when she was talking about women; she was clearly only talking about white women. Abe clearly has a blindspot when it comes to women's rights, but Peggy equating her struggle to black struggle waa crazy.
dandelions2
2025-11-23 01:28:09 +0000 UTCThere was a show, I don’t remember what, but part of it was an alt-history concept where American society was matriarchal/women’s suffrage was done decades earlier. What drove me crazy was that the lore of the show was saying slavery had ended immediately, there was no racism, no native genocide. I just couldn’t take it seriously that people believe that. Historically big social movements often punch down on other minorities or demographics to equate themselves with the status quo to not belong with the “others.” Susan B Anthony, who is considered to be one of the founders of the suffrage movement and feminism, while she was an abolitionist was quoted in saying she would cut her own arm off than advocate for a black man’s right to vote. Even the Civil Rights movement, decades after women’s suffrage, othered and distanced the LGTBQ community for its own representation. Unfortunately progress is very messy and it usually moves at the pace of its most conservative chain.
My Toasty Toast
2025-11-23 01:22:05 +0000 UTC“Don wants a mother figure.” “Don wants a mother for his kids.” “Don wants someone nurturing.” Don wants a fucking pot, people. But who wants to be a pot
Jay Craig
2025-11-23 00:23:10 +0000 UTCStrongly agree with your first paragraph, except I'd say his affection for her is anything but mild - it is very strong. But yes, there were attempts to describe Joan early on in the reactions as some kind of victim of Roger and that was very misplaced. Joan has always been clear-eyed about relationships and her places in them. She knows the game better than anyone in our cast.
Julien
2025-11-23 00:08:58 +0000 UTCIs there a difference? Back in the Wire days, there was a significant difference and one clearly better than the other (I won't say who). But now I can't tell, it's been great all around.
Julien
2025-11-22 23:51:18 +0000 UTCWhen it comes to Joan & Roger's relationship, I'll repeat something I said several seasons ago: Joan has an accurate idea of what their relationship is. She knows Roger has honest feelings for her, but it's not "true love", it's lust mixed with professional respect and mild affection. She never wanted Roger to leave his wife for her (Either Mona or Jane), and she knows that if he ever did, after a short honeymoon period he would begin cheating on her with whatever new hot woman caught his eye. So, because she knows EXACTLY what type of person Roger is, she doesn't get angry or hurt when he keeps trying to reignite things. She's not happy with it, and she honestly wishes he would stop, but she's not massively offended or insulted. Because that's just what Roger is. So that's why she can smile at him, and we can smile along and not feel creeped out. I doubt she would have succumbed to him at this moment if they hadn't been robbed like that, but with that sudden adrenaline and terror and fear it's not surprising she reacted unwisely. Speaking of the mugging, the mid-'60s is about the time when Manhattan began suffering significant "urban decay". From around this time to the late-'80s/early-'90s, the public perception of New York City wa s a crime-ridden slum filled with criminals and drug addicts and "undesirables". "Rich people work there, but only scum live there." It's quick, but Peggy & Abe's discussions about accents (And Peggy's Brooklyn accent) is another example of the way that classism is ever-present even when it's not the DIRECT focus of the conversation that touched on racism and sexism. On that subject, if you notice (And I honestly can't recall if it was directly mentioned in this episode), SCDP ALSO doesn't hire black people. But it's not an official policy, because the advertising company culture and their location means they have never needed to make it a rule. I'm willing to bet no black person has ever applied to work there, because they knew they wouldn't be hired, so why put themself through that? So like so many all-white companies, they get to say "If a qualified black person applied, of course we'd hire them" and confidently think they'll never be put in that position and need to be the bad guy. Frank E. Campbell's, the funeral home that Bert tells them to take Miss Blankenship to, is a real funeral home. It's handled a lot of high-profile funerals, including politicians and celebrities. This is part of Bert's efforts to try and send her off 'properly'.
JBK405
2025-11-22 23:49:10 +0000 UTC"I highly doubt it's possible for a black janitor to "fight" his way up into a copywriter position no matter how talented and hard-working he may be." - Even if he were male. Very well illustrated. I should have simply said this instead of that long post below. 😂🤦♂️
Julien
2025-11-22 23:47:07 +0000 UTCIt's funny Peggy is so concerned by Fillmore Auto Parts not hiring negroes... I mean, just look around, it doesn't appear that SCDP hires negroes either! (for anything higher than a janitor position at least) I highly doubt it's possible for a black janitor to "fight" his way up into a copywriter position no matter how talented and hard-working he may be.
Taya
2025-11-22 23:24:46 +0000 UTCSo much better than being born on the 37th floor of a skyscraper and dying in a barn, thus making you a deep-sea diver.
Kara
2025-11-22 23:13:51 +0000 UTCThere is no equivalence between Abe's position and Peggy's. Abe was looking out for black people. That includes black women. And Peggy is the very embodiment of second wave feminism: I assure you that her idea of women's liberation does not include black women. Uplifting black people as a whole benefits black women even if the intra-racial patriarchal structure is maintained. And sure, we could say uplifting women as a whole would benefits black women too - except white women like Peggy in the 60s did not give a single shit about black women. Their idea of uplifting women did not include black women. That era of feminism was exclusively centered on the concerns of middle class white women - the demographics Peggy is furiously working to join. Black women were a non-factor for that crowd. For feminism that includes black women, you had to look to socialist movements like Black Panthers, etc, which understood many of our social relations are driven by material conditions and black women's liberation could not be divorced from the race and class struggle (everyone's favorite word: intersectionality). Finally, history and present reality have both shown that white women as a whole will *consistently* choose (1) white supremacy that maintains patriarchy, over (2) racial equality that includes gender equality.
Julien
2025-11-22 23:08:11 +0000 UTCYup, and that echoes back even in season 1 when Peggy went on that date with the trucker. I love that this show understands that good female characters are not spotless pantheons of virtue and progress but are rather reflections of flaws which make them human and complex
bondbond53
2025-11-22 23:07:19 +0000 UTCthis run isn't limited to season 4 either, it continues into season 5!
Taya
2025-11-22 23:06:55 +0000 UTCThat's such a funny moment, I laugh every time
Taya
2025-11-22 23:05:10 +0000 UTCIn many shows a crazy run of episodes is usually defined by the tying of various character arcs and a culmination of narrative points. I like that for Mad Men it's usually the characters and plot being in active progress that yields such a beautiful sequence of episodes. Idk our fascination for them feels more "earned" maybe since it doesn't rely on our heartstrings and satisfaction from getting what we wanted in the ending stretch of a show. For me, there's just nothing like this show
bondbond53
2025-11-22 23:05:04 +0000 UTCPeople born in the middle-end of the 19th century genuinely had one of the craziest runs of any generation ever really. Civil and World Wars, slavery, industrialisation and switch to many modern technologies. Seems so wild really
bondbond53
2025-11-22 23:00:48 +0000 UTCFor me, one of the most underrated moments in the series is that brief interaction between Peggy and Sally.
Juanma88
2025-11-22 22:59:49 +0000 UTCSadly enough, a lot of the forefront runners for Civil Rights were mysogynystic men. Prompted by their time of course so I'm not trying to virtue signal here, but there is a reason why African American women had to stand up for themselves unfortunately. Also, because white women were campaigning for themselves only. You girls were right to point out how both Abe and Peggy were strictly talking from their experience, unable to see beyond.
bondbond53
2025-11-22 22:50:24 +0000 UTCBest episode the season, I think. Maybe it doesn't feel as "important" as The Suitcase, but there is so much life (and death!) in here: The Blankenship sequence is obviously a standout, but I love the energy in Peggy & Abe's conversation in the bar, too. In a show full of a lot of great dialogue, "She's an astronaut" just might be the best. And wow is it fun to watch in real time as they discover how capable Kiernan Shipka is as an actor -- they keep giving her more to do and she always rises to the moment. Cheech already said it below, but this is probably the best elevator show of all time. A gorgeous ending here that contrasts three women navigating three very different moments in their lives.
Mike
2025-11-22 22:39:59 +0000 UTCNo show will ever make elevators more important. That ending is gorgeous.
cheech
2025-11-22 22:20:33 +0000 UTCI don't think Megan was relating to anything in her own life, she was just stirred up emotionally seeing Sally so hysterical and heartbroken having to leave. Joan, Peggy, Faye were affected too.
Eric Viola
2025-11-22 22:03:21 +0000 UTCHa! I caught the lightbulb moment when Milena seems to figure something out about Megan... (16m:32s). The scene where Sally runs into her arms is so well shot with Sally in Megan's arms and surrounded by the major women in Don's life... I just checked to see who wrote this episode, it was a female writer (obviously) along with the showrunner. Great epsiode, topped off with the tragicomedy of Blankenship dying like that and their attempts to remove her body. :))
Chidi.
2025-11-22 21:42:00 +0000 UTCOh yeah it's Lola editing
bondbond53
2025-11-22 21:37:02 +0000 UTCEchoing your comments at the top of the review. It's so much fun to watch a show go god mode and Mad Men S4 is a shining example of that.
Griffen Rosado
2025-11-22 21:23:44 +0000 UTC“She was born in 1898 in a barn. She died on the 37th floor of a skyscraper. She’s an astronaut.” ❤️
Jamie
2025-11-22 21:08:32 +0000 UTCI really like how they aren’t afraid to make Peggy be unlikable sometimes. Because she’s right that women have it hard but she’s only thinking of white women. She has the pull yourself up by your bootstraps mentally since she worked so hard to get where she is. She’s still a bit too privileged to see that if she was black she likely would’ve never been made copy writer.
Jude G
2025-11-22 21:03:02 +0000 UTC"what even is this run of episodes" - you ain't seen nothing yet... :))
Chidi.
2025-11-22 20:58:08 +0000 UTC
