I could use some real opinions

I'm neither here nor there, I don't see a problem with not knowing what's been contributed, Run blind then announce the monthly results during an after show update.

TDC

maybe try it and see if it works for a few mouths, i trust you do keep up the good work

privetkillzs

I am good with not posting the amount received. As an option you might consider posting the "net" amount (costs - expenses). To make that a realistic number you would have to assume at least minimum wage for you and critical staff. I know that this would result in a negative number and you would have to indicate that the difference is coming out of salaries. I am with you regardless, keep up the good work.

Randy Reid

And the number of hours it took for each video. Some people think being a YouTuber is just a matter of sitting in front of a camera and have no idea how much effort it really takes.

Tiger in man's clothing

Perception is cake, it is a lie! People see the 6.1k donations and don't understand that Patreon takes a slice so the creators of content aren't getting the 6.1, more like the 5.9k. Now 5.9K may seem like a lot for making some 'YouTube videos' but only the uneducated fail to understand the costs of travel, wear and tear on vehicles and equipment, just how much custom ammo can cost, shipping on firearms, and the number of hours of research, filming, and editing that go into quality presentations. TL:DR HIDE IT!

Tiger in man's clothing

I like goals. Have you considered posting future projects and your projected costs? I know that you mentioned that some people might be scared off or try to sharp shoot you costs. You might just have something like a progress bar. The bar doesn't have to have amounts.

I don't need to see your total. It might be neat to see it, but if it's at all disadvantageous to keep it visible--hide that guy.

Michael Stueber

It makes no difference to me. I try and spread my Patreon money around to other content creators. I'm fine with you making 10K or 20K a month. That would not impact my giving.

An analogy might be a beggar sitting out with their bowl. Will they get a donation if there are only a few coins,or the bowl seems to be almost full? Keep it hidden.

Craig Sawicky

Hidden is fine, My brother said the same thing about a channel having "plenty of money" when I was saying In range, Forgotten weapons, and you guys are getting several K a month he asked why I was even paying a whopping dollar a month and you guys were fine without me. Maybe you should start posting a "monthly expenses" report and let people understand 5 or 6 thousand a month even isnt that much spread between multiple people for travel, equipment, gear, ammo, and your time put into it. For the great quality and time put into all the videos, you deserve payment and YouTube's scraps aren't enough, and that's if you can even get monetized.

Sean

Keep it hidden. I have never looked or cared to know. Same with Forgotten Weapons and InRange. I support you guys because the content is king.

I suspect, hiding it will prove the correct option.

Mustafa's Fleas

If the data shows that not showing the amount of monthly patronage helps with growth, then it makes sense to now show it. As for transparency, just keep letting your patrons know where the money goes.

Arturo Ceron

It seems to be the current trend not to show how much is being received and I can understand why some people might think 'oh that's enough' but as you say they don’t really know where or what the funds are going into. So perhaps you should hide it but as a compromise to those people who want to know you can give updates now and then?

Historical Firearms

I would love minimum wage

C&Rsenal

So we tend to buy equipment and try to balance travel with sales of posters and shirts

C&Rsenal

Hide it

Knowing what you get vs whats needed not a problem.. From a marketing point of view..... Maybe some shorter vignettes to keep everyone connected and grow through repetition.

I so wish it was $5

C&Rsenal

I will be dead honest here: I would like to publish a budget but we constantly pay for repairs, ammo (direct and supplies for custom) and occasionally if a rare piece floats by as cheap as shipping a loaner, we will bite.

C&Rsenal

thank you

C&Rsenal

To be fair, the challenge is that we like being transparent to the people who support us

C&Rsenal

sponsors have been very elusive despite repeated attempts to connect. Many surplus resellers like the series but none have been willing to pony up without special content. It is tricky

C&Rsenal

I think your right Othais, I am guilty myself of this. When I see a channel with a larger amount of revenue shown I tell myself they are getting enough support already. When I decided I wanted to support this channel I had never used Patreon before, after signing up I quickly found other channels I liked such as Forgotten Weapons and the Great War. I chose not to support The Great War back then because their revenue stream was higher, I supported C&Rsenal and Anvil, because your revenue was lower and I wanted it to grow. I see now the error in thinking this way. I should support the content I like regardless of their revenue stream. So perhaps it would be better not to show the total revenue as others may view it as you are stable without their support. I don't believe Ian shows his revenue anymore, maybe this is a wise decision.

MilsurpHandloader

Agree with the other comments, don't make it too transparent and maybe set some higher interim goals. I guess the clientele is small, I love the show because of it's historical relevance and not because i am a gun freak per se (couldn't care less for anything newer than 65 years or so)...

Guido R.

Add me to the keep it dark, I also support forgotten weapons and in range tv and don't really care how much they make. What matter to me and keeps me supporting all of you are really good videos and do I feel it is worth my support and you guys have always been hell yes it's worth it.

Mark D Booth

I'm pretty much on board with all of the above. My take would be a brief state of the account with out details released as a monthly special (a 2 or 3 minute vid).

Stephen Woods

Another idea, why not take a page out of WW1 and do a bond drive for individual large expenses? Keep patreon income for your normal operating costs per episode, but then run a bond drive through some avenue to cover specific costs. For instance, when the crew went on the trip to film all of the machine guns, you could have done some sort of bond drive to cover the cost or part of the cost instead of digging into the funds for the normal episode. Conversely, use a bond drive to upgrade filming equipment, or to fix your vehicle. I know you already do the poster and T shirt campaigns, but I don't know if that money gets allocated separately or just thrown into a general account to fund the show. Perhaps injecting a few different funding campaigns throughout the year towards those unexpected expenses would help. I would donate towards that, and I'm sure others would as well.

Mr. O, Right now your channel and Mark/Bruno get all my Patreon dollars. I do not need to know how much you are bringing in... but please continue to let us know when you have an unexpected major expense so I can increase my contribution for a month or two... I am a little confused as to why your channel does not have the number of subscribers as ForgottenWeapons or InRange, but perhaps the long format is a turn off, but it is one of the major reasons I LOVE your show. Perhaps let us know if we can increase income by X%, then we can show you XYZ... Just a thought. Keep up the GREAT work! PS, Any more Revolver posters left?

incorporate a state of affairs comment in each show, while going blind on actual numbers. I would be fine with judging the success of our involvement by the increasing quality seen in the shows. There are some very cheap pockets narrow minded folks that imagine anyone who can produce a show is a celebrity and they think , (unwarranted) that their dollar is funding your vacation home or your lavish celebrity life style. I have never seen a episode that didn’t thrill me. You are doing hard work, your love of your work shines through, however you can’t live on love. Love don’t pay bills. I could see your grass roots approach building to a Nationally recognized enterprise. I fear the idea of selling out to a corporate sponsor.

A Pete Bingham

I like to know how well you are doing.

A Pete Bingham

Yes, I do consider who is doing excalent work and needs the most support as part of my decision process. Your the one building this monster, It's ok to keep that info private if you think you need to.

Steve Zeatlow

Othais, Your work is great and I don't want it to stop. That is why I contribute. I don't care if you are open about the amount you receive through Patreon or not. I pay because I feel you offer quality shows and are preserving a piece of history. Disclose if you want; however, it has no bearing on my contribution... With that said... Your post did cause me to up my monthly contribution from $3 to $4 a month.... So maybe it helps a little.

Think about it this way- not everyone gives a dollar. Some do more. Swapping to patrons instead of dollars makes the visible number smaller, and heightens the sense of urgency. Plus if you get a few ridiculously huge pledges it doesn't mislead people into thinking there has been a giant upswell in support, when in fact it might go away if 1 person changes their mind. Far better to have 1000 $1 supporters than 20 $500 supporters. (Better still to have both, lol)

Nicholas White

Some of the shows I am support focus on the number of patrons vs an actual dollar amount. They are obviously focused on raising more money, but it can look different when you are focused on raising a "smaller" number. A side benefit of this method is once you have lots of people at say $1 a month, it's easy to increase your dollar amount by launching campaigns to get already paying people to up their pledge to another tier. For me personally I don't mind the dollar figure because so long as it's not absurd (6 or 7 0s) I look at it as your paycheck which, divided between all of you, isn't a ton.

Matt Rio

Up the goal and see what happens, nothing ventured nothing gained. Geoff Who won't cancel.

I always liked seeing the total amount. After all, I think patreons see themselves more as contributers than mere customers. That's why I found it gratifying to see the number and I did not know what to think when some other creators started hiding it. But I got over it and I would not mind you doing it as well. Maybe it would be a good way to offset the limited transparency by publishing a separate video about the state of affairs every now and then (like Ian does). It helps to get across what you are trying to achieve and the challenges you face. I know you do that kind of stuff after the regular episodes but a separate post might be better. Like many of the other commenters I also don't see any problem with upping the goal significantly. Again, if you can make people care by showing where the money is going then they will support it.

Sebastian Hiller

It might help if you think of it this way, you are a business and we’re an odd combination of customer and shareholder. Shareholders do expect some level of reporting and transpoarency like quarterly earnings calls and shareholders meetings, but they don’t have unfettered access to the books. So you can be transparent with reports to your subscribers but still keep the cards a little closer to your chest in the interest of the business, since we as shareholders benefit from that as well. Also it’s awesome you value feedback like this, says a lot about you and the way you run your business.

Take it blind. I finally got off my duff to support you and two other choice creators. I wasn't very savvy on the workings of Patreon so it was a bit of discovery process when I was clicking around the site. I did look at the amount and said "Gee, that probably turns off a few people from donating." I stumbled upon C&Rsenal by pure luck and it became a week-long binge to catch up. You're doing a great job and I want to do my part to see your work continue.

My only concern is that you are able to cover your costs and continue to produce the amazing that you have so far. If you think hiding the dollar amount will help the cause then you have my full support.

Hide it. It's none of my damn business. The only responsibility you have is to produce the best work you can.

John S Wren

I personally like to see the dollar amount as I like to see the progress and growth. But it doesn't stop my from contributing if it doesnt

Tim The Enchanter

In my experience, I received a replacement card and forgot to update my account. By the time patreon informed me my payment failed, it was too late to get caught up for the month. Patreon doesn't provide an avenue for things like this. But I'm sure this doesn't happen too often. I say hide it. I just love your work.

Matthew

I think it's worth trying for a couple of months with the amount hidden to see if there's any differences.

BumroyV2

People jump out just before the end of the month, then they jump back in after the first. That way they don’t have to pay but get all the perks. I have seen some other larger creators have to be careful when it comes to giveaways. Your call but I do love that you disclose how much you are making. Thanks

Rupanrx

I suppose the show is nearing the top of what it can achieve in a Great War setting. 2nd WW will probably be far more popular, but as Othias wrote have its pitfalls. Where they wants to depends on what sort of personality they have: Risk takers or risk avoiders. Personally I'd stick to the safer rout, but that's just me (and it also reflects my personal preferences, I don't really care for all that new 19th century stuff).

Petter Bøckman

I agree, so I just doubled my monthly amount.

Quite, except for the blind bit (I wound't able to ogle all that visual goodies O&M parades.

Petter Bøckman

PRECISELY the answer I come here to type! Hide it.

I think most of your supporters would be willing to give more each month if asked. I upped my monthly just because I perceived you could use it after your Suburban saga. Your product is unique so it’s worth something.

Lynn Phillips

I don't care to know how much money your patrons give you, and I've never looked on Patreon to see if I could find out. I do care that you continue producing excellent education and entertainment videos. I consider my small monthly donation to be one of the best values in my life right now. If going blind will help you continue what you and your team have been doing, then by all means go blind.

Brian Taylor

I think that the first thing to do is set another, much higher goal---say 10 to 12K, and explain that it will help address some of the problems you described. But as an alternative, maybe the "In-Range" approach of a goal of number of patrons and blind dollar total might work better overall to put your channel on a sustainable basis; it appears to be working for them. . .

Bruce Stein

11h, 1s, 2c : thank you

C&Rsenal

10h, 1s, 2c : Thanks. I average about 1/2 minimum wage take home per hour worked on "good" months. Trouble is the past 2 have required heavy future proofing expenses. Insuring $60,000 experimental rifles in custom cases to go home can eat up a quarter of a month easy!

C&Rsenal

9h, 1s, 2c : thanks!

C&Rsenal

8h, 1s, 2c : While on that topic, do you think consistent releases matter the MOST on trustworthiness when you support a project?

C&Rsenal

7h, 1s, 2c : sonce this is the 3rd time I have seen this I now feel dumb for not offering it

C&Rsenal

6h, 1s, 2c : thank you!

C&Rsenal

5 hide, 1 show, 2 my call : Thanks! (this isnt a vote I am just trying to sort 100 comments!)

C&Rsenal

5 hide, 2 my call : I am really liking this option

C&Rsenal

3 hide, 2 my call (I got 99 comments and short term memory challenges)

C&Rsenal

2 hide, 2 my call

C&Rsenal

2 hide, 1 my call, thank you!

C&Rsenal

2 hide

C&Rsenal

1 hide

C&Rsenal

I have tried doing this repeatedly and the trouble is I am always wrong. Mechanical issues, travel opportunities, unexpected tooling costs, fluctuating fund raisers, etc. Every time I think we have a handle on it there is a curveball. So I guess the real answer is a "buffered, ballpark, safe" number is going to be nearly double where we are at. Because that leaves enough for a small salary and variable costs. Because of the large jump I fear disheartening people.

C&Rsenal

I have no problem with not having "transparency" into what you are earning; we all can see that whatever you take in goes right to content

Robert LaPadura

If you haven't already, calculate what you really need to run the show properly and then display the DIFFERENCE. That way the amount you raise every month remains hidden, but viewers understand that there is still a need for donations.

ERB2

Seek the advise of as many successful patreon account holders as you can. After all, they blazed the path.

John R. Dorn

sorry no clue what you are talking about- where's your business plan and have you spoken to your lawyer... that is all i have to say on the matter.

praack

Hide it and set a higher goal, if you can’t do both, flip a coin.

Andrew Bethards

Hide it, I don't care how much you make, I donate because I find the show riveting.

Just follow your gut. If you need more, ask for more. Folks that dig what y'all are trying to do, may just double down. Two bucks a month for historical, educational entertainment, I might even buy another shirt.

Go blind. I’m sure we all appreciate the efforts to be transparent but if it’s hurting the show it isn’t worth it. As far as I’m concerned if I’m giving money and I’m getting a show everything is on the level.

If going blid is better for you, go blind. I don't care if you are bilnd or open as long you continue to make great content. If going blind makes it possibel for you to continue making great stuff do it.

Jeppe Christensen

Go blind. Set new goals as suggested.

OLLE3770

Go blind, it is really none of our business how much you guys are getting per month. If someone feels they enjoy your videos and wishes to contribute, it really shouldn't matter if they know how much you are already making per month.

Josh Bowman

Why not raise your limit to $10k so you have plenty of room for unexpected loss and trolls?

Michael Joy

Whatever works - I would always suggest having an unfulfilled goal though.

Matthew Jackson

Set another Patreon goal. Your current one for 6000 a month has been met, so people are probably saying to themselves, "Well, they have all the money they need, so they don't need any more." Set another one for 7000 and label it, "We will cover post-1923 firearms if we meet this goal." Then see what happens.

General Jack Ripper

Hide it. No reason to give out that information.

Hide it. If it is good enough for Gun Jesus and Karl then you already have dispensation.

Chairman

Do what you have to do to make it work. I don't care about the figures as much as the entire project.

I vote for go blind. No worries.

I give you guys money because I love what you do. I dont care if that money goes to a custom die or a bag of Doritos. I also dont need a receipt or reports personally. Do what works best for you guys and keep on giving us what we love. I appreciate the heart of trying to be transparent but I dont need it myself and dont actually look at the numbers unless you say your in trouble and need more or have a fundraiser. Thanks for the show!

Al Lowe

I would also note the small number of non payments per month can easily be explained by expired credit cards or insufficient funds rather than deliberate action.

jason mahoney

Go blind.

Do what you need to do . You can count on my continued support.

I'll reiterate what has already been said but I think the problem is either not enough information or too much of it. Unless you do an hour-long video explaining all your costs and how money evaporates, there will always be a good number of people who don't stop to think about what things like custom dies, shipping insurance and steering columns do to your budget and assume that contrary to what the page itself says, everyone is taking home a nice cheque and passing it aroud to the family and the doggos as if you're Al Bundy. In that perspective the realistic option is to just show the amount of patrons, because that might show people how relatively small your support base actually is. I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume that you have talked with Ian about this, who also has the advantage of producing a lot more bite-size content and hence getting more views and more retention, so he should also have more numbers from which to extrapolate what the best decision is. The unfortunate truth is that most people don't spend a lot of time thinking things through so they will rely on some superficial conjecture to create an image for themselves and stick to that. Even if you were to go more transparent with the back-end of C&Rsenal (which I think you wouldn't due to the persoanl aspect and the metric crapton of extra work involved) it will not have a sufficient impact on people at large to break through their already established prejudices. I'd say hide it and focus more on the amount of people supporting you. It may actually make it easier for people to cross the threshold of supporting you without worrying about the amount.

Benjamin de Groot

You can never go wrong with transparency. I think this especially true with the gun community which in my experience values honesty higher than the public in general.

jason mahoney

The shooting segments are usually supported by music right? Since most of that is from before 1923, there is a lot that is no longer covered by copyright and as such fall under fair use. Post 1923 a lot of stuff is still copyrighted and beyond YouTube's automated copyright-strike service for companies, record companies are know to actively hunt and claim anything that even slightly hints at music that they own rights to. One slip-up means losing your monetization on the video or in the worst-case scenario ending up in a legal battle which in the US would essentially mean bankruptcy for Othias.

Benjamin de Groot

Do what you have to do.

Ethereal

A few thoughts: 1. 2% of the overall amount being a non-payment seems an amount you can expect, when having more than 1000 patreons. 2. Sometimes being too transparent can be damaging to yourself. This seems the situation. Maybe don't show the amount, but do a fun monthly (or quarterly, depending on your work schedule) reports (in written or video form) that are available for $1 patreons or higher. 3. You don't have a higher goal than the $6000. I think working together to higher goals, will spur more people to join your patreon. Now on a first glance it looks like you are happy with the amount you get and don't want to go further. Make more levels up to $20.000 and maybe include fan meetups in europe, Canada and such. Give us patreons a new goal to achieve!

Don't show it.

A quarterly report, NON specific, would be enough information to your patrons. Something along the lines of hey gang we are okay for now, next quarter may be tight Mae wants to go to Disneyland.

Kelly D West

why not try hiding it for a few months, and see what happens

Transparency is tricky when it seems to be an obstacle. There is merit in keeping certain aspects under wraps when you are responsible for others paychecks and the issues affect bottom lines. The reason the amounts are hidden is precisely what you said. People see an amount and think it is enough. Regardless of the actual costs involved, some will think one or two people are making the entire amount as a paycheck. I would like to know the measure of success, but it can be conveyed in other ways, even with specifics, without a billboard. Have a report to Patreon members, or somehow share what you can occasionally. But do what you need to so you can grow. If that formula seems to not work, then try again with another. Good luck.

Powers

Need to know basis - and we don't.

I'd say the most important thing to consider is what the principles and ethics are of the dude in the mirror. Get crosswise with him and you're firetrucked.

I would keep it private, I don't like using the terms "hide it". Not many small businesses publicize their financial statements for good reason and you are no different.

CCW1911

I don't need to know how much ramen you're eating. Hide it. It would be like knowing how much Indy spends on wacky hats and bow ties each month. TMI.

Minion

You do updates at the end of all your videos and have a social media network attached to the channel. There are plenty of ways to provide transparency to people without showing it on the page or giving actual numbers. I think getting people to understand the true cost and overhead of this project is a difficult challenge and not one I envy you. These other methods allow you to frame that number in a way that is relevant to your project. When people see that positive they don't see all the negatives involved and they make their own assumptions. Realistically that number is not an accurate number anyway. Good luck to you on a tough decision. I for one wont be bothered if you need to hide the total.

I chose to support this channel for the things you do and support outside of "the channel." I was a supporter for 3 months b4 I realized there was a member total. I shouldn't be surprised that people do as you mentioned, hide it. However you should mention percentage of subscribers to prayers, maybe that will inspire all to reach 100%

Clyde Zackery

What Brett Devall said above.

Chris M

Hide it.

I'd hide it. I get the desire to be transparent, but it's just a reality that potential patrons take your monthly amount into consideration if it's visible, even subconsciously. There's really no winning with it either. Once you're making a decent amount of money, you'll have people who look at it and think that you've got enough and don't need more. However, you've also got people who see tiny creators struggling to get started and just immediately write them off as failures because they're not already rolling in patrons. I know that if/when I do a Patreon, I'd keep the amount hidden.

Brett

I'd hide it, none of the patrons business really. If it helps you get more funding and become a "better" channel and offer more content, I am all for it.

Joshua Kerner

Do whatever helps your channel/funding the most. I have no doubts about your integrity or that the funds are being used to produce the best content you can.

The amount I contribute isn't representative of how much I'd like to commit, but how much I can. Knowing the figure of income C&R makes makes 0 swayin either value to me. Having said that, I feel once you get past really the 1-2k per/x figure with crowdsourcing, public opinion is always going to be against you with a visible income value, even if that barely clears expenses.. so I'd say if there's evidence to suggest that's whats happening, hide it.

Toadie

Hide it.

I would say hide it. I don't think it's dishonest or anything to not tell people how much you are making. No one knows your expenses, so they can't reasonably judge the sufficiency of your income.

Jeff Freeman

As already stated, human nature being what it is, hide it. Even if you gave a complete accounting of income/outgo, some would still think you are somehow living well.....and would detract from the time/effort you put into the show. While the amount plays no part in my decision to support, I probably have a higher appreciation of the cost of doing what you do than many because of my background and own personal addiction to MilSurp firearms. At $6K a month I tend to doubt you are clearing much more than minimum wage at best.

Richard Anderson

This is only my personal opinion on how I use Patreon. I try to increase or decrease payout based on a monthly quantity and quality of content basis. I don't just support one Patreon group and try to rationally limit how much I spend here. I stopped supporting another group when they asked for my address in order to possibly send me raffled gun parts, which would not be legal where I live. The goals never really factor into it for me. They might if there were some actually defined limit, where more money didn't actually produce more, and more steady content streams. In your place I would probably be more conservative in my phrasing of funding rational in that regard.

Jason

If it would help grow the show, I would hide the amount that you all are getting. I will keep contributing either way.

Hide it. If you want to keep the patreons up to date send out a message. I don't look at goals. And your content has gotten a lot better since episode 1

Primal Tempest

I would say hid it. Personally it wouldn’t affect my decision to support you. I honestly don’t look at the goals when I support a channel.

Hide it. Honestly, I've looked at what some make and decided not to become a patron because i thought they made enough.... but those were ones that don't put anywhere near the amount of work in that you guys have to.... and they make a lot more. However like others have said, it may the specialized content more than the numbers showing. But if hiding it helps to bump it even a little, then hell yeah, hide it.

Vityaz

Go ahead and hide it!

Curtis Handsaker

I only took the quality of your content as the reason for supporting C&Rsenal. While I did have a look at your monthly revenue numbers, it played no role in deciding how much to sponsor. Nor did not seeing monthly revenue numbers on other channels I also sponsor play any role in me deciding to support them. The problem lies more with the subject matter covered by C&Rsenal. Your audience comes from a subset of people who are interested in firearms, are interested in Curio and Relics, of the WWI era, watch your videos and have the means to pledge money to support you. What you should be asking for is those of us who are supporting to increase our support. You don’t get blood from stones, but from hearts. I stepped up my pledge, putting money where my mouth is. Its not much, but if all of us who pledge one dollar did two, or five….

Ron Johnson

I would say hide it... Just don't ever talk trash on how another channel makes money (I know you would never do that, but when Yankee Marshall started all the stuff with IV8888, I almost quit my patronage of him when I was able to extrapolate that he was making six figures himself via Patreon). I will support you no matter what because you are creating THE reference for World War I firearms.

Milsurp Mike

Well, I am of 2 minds. Open ness is good in a world where we get stupid stuff like <a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-36271249" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-36271249</a> . But human nature is what it is, and people are going to look at 6k a month and assume that is what you are taking home, and compare that to what they make and figure you are doing well. Maybe set levels that indicate what you need to do what you want in a sustainable way. IE do you need 10k a month to do X( and X being kinda general is fine, I am not expecting you to be 100% precise because you can only make a best effort guess as to what the future holds.) I saw a live recording of you guys and the great war and you were having to work very slowly to make due with the cameras you could afford. How much would it cost to have you and Bruno, Mark and may(sp?) working on this full time (and being paid full time salaries) Do you have enough work for everyone if suddenly you had 20k a month?

Josh B

I say either more information or less. $6,000 a month sounds like a lot, but I understand that it isn't given the costs of producing your videos. I contribute to channels not knowing their total take, because I make my pledges based on the value I get personally. Given that, I don't really care what a channel's total pledges are. But if you do continue to show a total pledge number, I suspect it would help to provide more detail about present and anticipated future costs.

Leonard Heinz

I base my pledge solely on the content of your episodes. Never really looked at $ or #s. Guess I am saying hide it.

Greg Bastian

I agree with Joseph up above. Show how it gets budgeted, and how little you actually get of it to pay your bills. I've upped amount twice because I understand that it costs more than just financially for you guys do this wonderful work. If people that you're actually making a wage of [hypothetically) 3-5 dollars hour to this, it should work as a wake-up call. You're not getting rich off this.

I like to see it

AznTeaBag

Hide it... I think more people think "Meh, they're fine" than think "I have to help them get to $X".

Yeah, hide it, after some time check if it had any result. ”I love this show”

Erik

Hide it, if you need to address goals there is always the episode post script and Patreon announcements.

Hiding it may help and some of the posts here more familiar with other projects make sense. However, I'd say the content of this post is all news to me. According to the main page, $6,000 is Goal 7 of 7. Maybe an elaboration of present problems and future goals with monetary landmarks established would be helpful.

Frankly I'd prefer to not see the number. That way I'm left deciding to support content instead of a goal number.

Benjamin

I had a parallel problem myself. I am civil engineer and have a team of designers, drafters, and surveyors who work under me. I had a similar problem in trying to keep projects under budget. Sending emails and having meetings didn't work, the only thing that started to get anything under control was sharing the project financials with my teammates as I got them weekly. I'm fairly certain I wasn't supposed to do that, but once I did that, everyone understood why they could only spend XX amount of hours on this or that. I for one, have no idea how much it costs to produce a show, and I have no doubt that each show has a unique cost. I donate $5 dollars a month and hope that helps the cause. I don't know if publishing the budget will raise more donations. I think it will probably just show us, the viewers, how far you can stretch a dollar as opposed to generating new revenue.

Thank you for asking. To me, doesn’t matter if you show total or not. I’m supporting the content, and the creator’s ability to continue to make the content.

Jeremy

Hide it but list it on down in the description so those who read carefully see it.

Do whatever helps get you closer to writing those books! Hide it and see if things improve. Just bumped up my pledge to do what I can to keep things moving

C W

I say hide it. I'll always be a confirmed monthly supporter of your channel because I appreciate the very hard work that you and Mae put into every episode. I understand that some people can't contribute every month automatically or, they don't know that they can. I follow 3 other creators and have all 4 of you on an auto contribution every month.

F4_Phantom

I believe you give to support whomever it is you are giving to. As for what others give, no one's business but the recipient. If this is not how the giver thinks, they are the problem, not you. Unfortunately, regardless of the purity of your desire to educate your audience in an honest manner, some will get offended and others will take any opportunity to destroy that which they are incapable of producing themselves. Set aside funds and insurance to protect your opus and keep your standard high. You really do not need others advice because what you are doing, you are doing correctly. Honor and integrity will carry you far, you are proof of this.

Louis W. Reuter II

hide it, i can see some people thinking that amount is enough.

Do what is best for this show and the series...as a patron I will continue to support regardless if you go blind or not.

Bryan Sportel

Hide it, the only effects I see are positive. Fewer people will pull support at the last minute, or not support in the first place which will lead to fewer false positives. The people who support, and keep supporting will not mind that they can't see the totals.

So let me get this straight. You produce content people like and keep consuming. A subset of the same people are willing to pay a little in order to keep consuming new content. You have identified a possible barrier to creating new content. I would think you are doing yourself and your patrons a disservice in not removing the barrier.

"...if we are to ever to cover post 1923 firearms, our risk of copyright exposure means episodes could get costly on single mistakes or even just frivolous suits etc." I'm kinda confused by this. Is it due to footage you would use in videos?

I feel that people will be less inclined to continue supporting if they see that a goal is meet. A person might feel like they can cancel and let the rest prop up the show. Hiding it is the way to go.

Nick

Hide it if it would help

Adam Chang

If you think it will help, hide it!

Nuke Road Warrior

I contribute because I feel it's a way to show how much *I* value your content. Personally, I don't care how much others are contributing. Go blind with the amount. Maybe encourage people to contribute, not to improve your content, but to show appreciation for the entertainment value.

What was your business plan going into the series? Has YouTube payments and subsequent Patreon payments met funding of that plan? If steady income is required then corporate sponsors may be the way to proceed. As to your question transparency is always expected of public funded ventures.

M Hoffmann

Like they're all saying, hide it. Maybe encourage patrons with comments on how you need every dollar to get past WW1, with serious legal costs coming up. We pay you for a quality product, this isn't a charity. Gus xox

go blind

I have honestly never paid any attention to whether a creator has posted target goals or not. I give what I can to those channels producing quality content. I agree with the other posters that if it helps to go private on the amount, by all means do it. Maybe also offer more pledge tiers with interesting "rewards" to help incentivize folks (though the content should be enough) - I don't know how many people actually contribute at the highest tiers, but I've seen other channels do $20, $50 and even $100 a month. If even one person contributes at those tiers, it would help.

Hide it!

I personally say go ahead and make it blind. I feel that it isnt necessary to show. Especially as folks can drop off just before collection time.

I can only speak for myself. My decision to support the channel isn't based on if you go over your goal or not. If you have a $6k goal and are hitting $10k, my pledge isn't changing. I love the content and consider my Pledge to be a paid subscription. This is how I view all of my Patreon payments.

Jim Jones

Transparency is a great ideal, but in the Patreon format I don't think it works. People vastly, vastly underestimate the amount of work that goes into the back end of video production. If you were to work out the hours that you do I've a sneaking suspicion the wage wouldn't be legal. I don't expect to know the wages of people who work on the TV, in art or any other creative field. I don't choose to sling a small amount of money your way and expect to see a running total back. I do it because I love the work you do. If by making it hidden it enables you to produce more and better content and earn a decent living (shit, I think it'd be great if you got bloody rich, personally) then hide it.

Chainslack

Hide it if you think it'll help you make more videos with new guns.

I think Phillip DeFranco did a good job of justifying why his patreon is hidden. This isnt a charity, businesses aren't expected to tell me their bottom line when they provide a product or service. Netflix doesn't have a money counter on after all. I think this project is big enough now that hiding the number is perfectly acceptable, and youve proven yourselves reliable and trustworthy enough that thered be no complaints from me.

Anthony O'Nan

Or perhaps add more goals to show that while you're running well, you'd still like to reach higher.

Hide it and tell us in the updates.

Jasper Welsch

It's your show. No one can or should chastise you for hiding your monthly haul from Patreon. People should only be here because they like your content and want to support it.

Alexander Ruddock

I like seeing a total just because it lets me know how well your channel is doing and that your reaching goals and sustainability. I think one thing to check about non-payments is credit card expirations. Some people might just forget to check something like that, which is why occasionally you will get non-payments

I'd say give the transparency during your end-of-video updates, and leave it hidden here.

Once of my college professors once talked about the idea of the “message that is seen and the message that is heard” in that whole the message may be the same it is judged/thought of differently depending on whether it is seen or heard. So my suggestion would be to hide the number of donations on patreon but give updates on the number after the credits of each episode.

SteelN’Anchor

I think you are onto something with the "that's enough" behavior. It is nice that you are transparent about the funding and you have always been that way about the costs as well. I just wonder how many only pay attention to the former and not the latter. Going dark on your total may be the only way to break that cycle. I do appreciate how much you share about the behind the scenes challenges and hope you continue to give us that insight as well as the great content.

Paul Crew

Take my opinion for how much I pay for it. I don't care, I'm curious but am not one to pry. If it helps you, make the amount private, we can guess a minimum based on how many patrons you have.

While I am sure most of us agree that transparency is usually preferred, I also think that anyone who supports this channel and all the work that you guys put in will agree with what you decide is best for growth is the best option.

I think showing the number of active patrons is helpful, it helps people know that this is a real, serious channel. The actual dollar amount, while obviously important to you, is not really necessary for me to see as a patron.

Matthew Long

I say hide it. It's not necessary info for me as a patron and showing it is probably hurting your bottom line.