Chopping Science tools: TAL Sampler – it rules! Let's chop some drums and play bass [video]
Added 2023-05-09 08:08:45 +0000 UTCChopping Scientists need to know about good tools for chopping!
TAL Sampler is by far one of my fave samplers, because it's very light, quick to use, grrrreat for chopping – and it sounds banging! And that is why I want to tell you about it. Gotta love it.
PS: Will also do a similar video about Redux, too, as it's great for chopping as well
PPS: Will do another sound design video with TAL Sampler soon!
Comments
Ha!
Janne Hatula
2023-07-02 08:54:52 +0000 UTCNot trying to sell it to anybody. For one thing, I love the convenience of clicking to create a slice. I've been making music for 31 years, so I admit I love trying out different tools…variety is the spice of life.
Janne Hatula
2023-07-02 08:54:35 +0000 UTCMaybe I missed the point — but what is the functional advantage of using this tool over simply using the Sampler in Ableton? Obviously you showcased the sampler emulations — but these sorts of sounds can be replicated with devices such as Decimort, RX950 and even Ableton's own Saturation and Redux. While the sampler layers is cool — this can also be replicated with Chains in Ableton. Is there something else that I am missing here? Cool sampler, but I really try not to add stuff to the toolbox that doesn't serve a distinct purpose.
John Citizen
2023-07-02 08:39:41 +0000 UTCNah, it wasn't lo-fi — I didn't experience an uncontrollable urge to 'study and focus'. ;)
John Citizen
2023-07-02 08:36:47 +0000 UTCTesting: seems to work here.
Janne Hatula
2023-06-08 21:13:04 +0000 UTCHey something is wrong with this video. Its not playing!
Gregster
2023-06-08 20:28:26 +0000 UTCIt's OK I bought Redux when it came out :) I've avoided ableton up to now, but I did try Bitwig and its drum rack equivalent and was somewhat underwhelmed at how unpolished it was. Somewhat surprising as I think the same dude who codes Bitwig, also made shortcircuit and the ableton sampler (not sure about drum rack). TAL-drum though is excellent and what I use for drums now, I believe it covers most of the same functionality as drum-rack (minus the integration with the DAW - i still use slicex to chop the hits).
Rich
2023-05-12 18:53:13 +0000 UTCWith Redux, yeah, start and end points of slices can be changed but not automated. All slices can have their own envelopes for amplitude and filter but they're not there for default. Btw not trying to sell Redux to you :) To me, there's nothing more convenient and powerful than chopping audio to Drum Rack on Ableton Live. Still, I love trying out different things, because even switching things up can be inspirational! Sometimes even doing things the hard or slow way can be interesting, hehe.
Janne Hatula
2023-05-12 18:24:28 +0000 UTCI think I'm just used to the system on emu samplers (also shortcircuit VSTi) where for each sample you import you can adjust start and endpoints and you get a volume ADSR and filter ADSR by default. At least for drums, TAL-drum provides this and just makes sense for my workflow. I was just looking again at TAL-sampler, and it appears to only have 3 envelopes total per instance! But I suppose you're meant to use one instance of TAL-sampler per sound really (where a sound is a bunch of layered samples). You're not really limited to 1 instance like with hardware. I am sure Redux excels at some things that you can't accomplish easily with the TAL VST's, but I don't know it well enough to know. I remember being impressed with the phrasing though - that's unique. I need to watch some more tutorials! PS. regarding using the SXX command, it works well for triggering drum loops from different 16th note starting positions for example, but 256 resolution is not always enough for very small adjustments to a percussion hit.
Rich
2023-05-12 18:16:14 +0000 UTCFor something like different attack. Then I would go for a different modulation set on the slice in question. Add a volume AHDSR and if you so desire you can macro the AHDSR values to create variation.
Andrew Hollis
2023-05-12 06:15:10 +0000 UTCI see what you mean that sample start is the slice point and you can’t move the start within the slice boundary. Well, there is a workaround to the that if you are willing to use phrases but be warned you have to go back to an older version due to a latency issue in phrases. As that link suggests you use the sxx command in the phrase section that will alter the start point of the slice not the whole sample.
Andrew Hollis
2023-05-12 05:57:04 +0000 UTCAhh yeah, now I got your point! True, true, sample start point cannot be automated or modulated. (I was thinking of freely movable slice points when I first read your comment)
Janne Hatula
2023-05-11 19:20:19 +0000 UTCMaybe I'm missing something, but in TAL-sampler you get a bar labelled 'S' that you can move around to adjust where the sample will play from. In Redux (like Renoise) there isn't that feature. See for example this (old) thread: https://forum.renoise.com/t/how-to-set-start-point-of-sample-playback/44695 You can add slices of course and move them around but it isn't quite the same. For example, you load up a snare and want to play around with chopping off the attack portion to make a ghost snare, you have to select the part of the sample you want to delete, then delete it. If you feel like you went too far, I guess you can undo the change and try again - but it's a lot more clunky than a freely movable 'S' bar. (If you add a loop in Redux you do get freely movable 'S' and 'E' bars that you can move to adjust the loop, but nothing for the sample start and end. TAL-sampler has 'S', 'E', 'LS' and 'LE')
Rich
2023-05-11 17:48:33 +0000 UTCSample start can be moved around freely in Redux, so it's non-destructive?
Janne Hatula
2023-05-11 14:00:33 +0000 UTCJanne knows what a massive Redux fan I am. Can I ask what you mean adjust the start non-destructively?
Andrew Hollis
2023-05-11 13:26:22 +0000 UTCAlso regarding Redux, when I first discovered it I thought that finally I had found a software sampler with a similar featureset to emu samplers. But what kills it for me is that you can't adjust the start of a sample non-destructively. Anyway, looking forward to your video of it!
Rich
2023-05-11 03:46:07 +0000 UTCInteresting video. I have both Tal-sampler and TAL-drum and I find myself using TAL-drum more, especially for doing ADSR edits on hits. I'll have to try the latest TAL-sampler release though, it looks like they've made it more user friendly.
Rich
2023-05-11 03:43:39 +0000 UTCIve been sending him my feedback too. He's been super cool and responsive about everything.
Shane Newville
2023-05-10 06:58:31 +0000 UTCDang! Good info! I'll investigate, too, and let the dev know! Thanks :)
Janne Hatula
2023-05-10 06:27:20 +0000 UTCI ventured into the rabbit hole even more. :D In short, as far as I can tell, yes we lost direct automation for Stretch and Size (previously "Density"). This is a big sad for me because I love automating those 2 parameters in particular on breaks. Another thing is we could directly automate those parameters independently on each layer. With MOD-MATRIX being the only choice now we're limited to P1-P4, so we have to choose from fewer. (in a lot of cases we still have enough) I just want detect control back. Both used to be an option. I learned a lot about Sampler today. Its still my favorites software sampler Also I did try this in Bitwig (8-Track) too. I did this with vst3 though. It still could not see the parameters unless I used P1-P4. But it worked for you? Like direct automation or through MOD-MATRIX?
Shane Newville
2023-05-10 06:23:25 +0000 UTCOhhh yes! Protip in the house! 👌🏻
Janne Hatula
2023-05-09 12:03:04 +0000 UTCYou can drop a sample directly on the layer on the main page. That removed any test samples on that layer and spread the sample across the keyboard.
Simon Huber
2023-05-09 12:01:32 +0000 UTCyea idk. its a new issue not present in version 3.4 so something definitely changed. it was completely automate-able in Live before
Shane Newville
2023-05-09 11:23:21 +0000 UTClove tal sampler. Mod matrix is lit if you want to automate anything. Want to start using redux too.
atetraxx
2023-05-09 11:20:20 +0000 UTCActually, seems the stretch parameters are not seen and cannot be automated by Ableton Live, but can be done with Bitwig Studio. I wonder why this is!
Janne Hatula
2023-05-09 11:09:52 +0000 UTCJust emailed the dev! I'll let you know if he responds.
Janne Hatula
2023-05-09 10:13:00 +0000 UTCawesome. Its one of the greatest things when the devs of the tools we like actually listen and care.
Shane Newville
2023-05-09 10:06:11 +0000 UTCI absolutely appreciate all comments! I’ll email the dev. He made some things happen chopping-wise as per my request so he is listening!
Janne Hatula
2023-05-09 10:00:11 +0000 UTCSorry for the spam of comments, but I couldn't help myself. Installed the older version and confirmed YES we can automated all of the stretch parameters including the stretch type. Maybe the devs just didn't get to patching that up yet. (I sent an email to the dev just to let him know, in case its not already known) Amway, love this thing. Thanks for making a vid on it. looking forward to more.
Shane Newville
2023-05-09 09:58:21 +0000 UTCThis is super helpful though. I tried messing around with slicing recently and could not wrap my head around how it works in Sampler. And nice find with Del Mapping. haha. The caution before the click.
Shane Newville
2023-05-09 09:35:29 +0000 UTCMan i could'a swore we were able to automate stretch parameters before the update moving to beta which changed things around for Granular. Im too tired to install the old version to find out. Tomorrow maybe. I also need to double check if there's an update too. Seems like the filter knobs (left side beneath the sample) are not working right for me. (EDIT: ey there is an update. fingers crossed) (EDIT 2: AHA! Yes! update fixed that. Filters are working now
Shane Newville
2023-05-09 09:34:20 +0000 UTCAwesome! I'm excited. I already loved this things (which I only learned of how insanely cool it is from watching you demo it). It keeps getting improved. I have barely touched granular yet....alright. time for me to shut it and watch this
Shane Newville
2023-05-09 08:48:14 +0000 UTCNice one! There's this one new extra feature I wanna do a quick little sound design video about soon. This sampler rules.
Janne Hatula
2023-05-09 08:41:09 +0000 UTCperfect timing. was talking to someone just a few hours ago about how i need to relearn how to do a few things in TAL Sampler since the update. (beta)
Shane Newville
2023-05-09 08:39:40 +0000 UTC
