The B.E.E. Podcast - 6/28/21 - Sean Stone - SILVER

very disappointing guest!!!

Stephan Vesco

These people who are always on about "science," are like children who are into Star Trek. Like Science is some omnipotent, benevolent god that never lies. That is Science <i>Fiction</i>, folks. I am a scientist. I have a PhD from Harvard. I know very well that one can make data say whatever they want to support their desired narrative. Science is not absolute. "Science" used to say that homosexuality was a mental disorder. People call Eugenics "pseudo-science," when it is alive and well as "animal husbandry." It's not "pseudo-science," it's just un-PC in the current climate. So, scientists need to be taken with a grain of salt. Again...critical thinking. Don't let others do it for you.

Antonio Primavera

Man! A LOT of scared conformists here! (Thank the Gods, not all!) "Mommy! Make the scary man stop saying stuff the government told me not to believe!" "We have to trust the media 'experts'!" "The government should be run by experts!" What has happened to critical thinking? Calling something "conspiracy theory" is the opposite of critical thinking. It is labeling something so that discussion stops (same with racism, sexism, etc., in most cases). Very illiberal and destructive.

Antonio Primavera

<i>Getting upset about a guests opinions and threatening subscriptions is the antithesis of free speech.</i> Right on! It's funny that most of these people are paying the least money (Silver level). :)

Antonio Primavera

Well said! Thank you!

Antonio Primavera

I really don't like that you call borderline personality a "disease". It would mean that we would be sick. Sick forever? Or that it's curable? I don't think so. It's manageable though. I know because I suffer from it too. And from my own experience it CLEARLY stems of my narcissistic parents and trauma. Maybe genetic... a brain wired differently... But disease is not the word I would use.. Sorry I just had to put this out here... X

Jolijn Snijders

I hope Bret keeps taking risks with his guests. In my opinion guests are not very important I like Bret's insights and cultural commentary. I don't have to agree with him. I didn't like the guest, I think he's as crazy as his dead. But I'm glad Bret invited him. For the people critizing Bret's choice, remember you don't know who refuses to come to the podcast. As I said I don't have to agree with BEE, I don't think the movies Brooke Shields did when she was a child and was sexualized were fine, I think the movies were creepy and made by degenerates, I'm glad we can't have movies like that anymore. But I'm really happy BEE has a totally different opinion! Fuck my opinion!

Jorge Espinha

Hahahaha. Very good. I didn't know that quote. Good one.

Jorge Espinha

Ooh, that would be a shock!

Jenny Splitter

I don't live in a bubble.

Alex Waller

Those were talking points mentioned in the actual interview, I'm sorry I wasted your time, and mine. Enjoy your bubble.

Michael Bronspigel

The Shards is the best thing you’ve ever done, Bret. Period. The best thing you have ever done. Sean Stone is arguably the worst guest you’ve ever had. But I wouldn’t dream of canceling my subscription over something so frivolous. This is still my favorite “talk show” podcast and that’s not going to change just because I found one guest to be a drag.

Erix Antoine

anyone think robert mallory AND ryan vaughn are the killers? there's got to be more than one at this point, right? the trawler and the person in the beige van?

Collin Myers

That's true. Hey, I think Up in the Air is great and he's taught at University of Montana where my dad and uncles went to school so there's lots of positives about Walter Kirn. I'm going to revisit it and give it another shot

Alex Waller

Hey - I remember Bret mentioning more than once that he was the "worst reviewed writer of his generation." Does anyone else remember that, and if so, any idea what episode? Thanks!

Daniel Crane

The Shards has to be like 4,000 pages by now right?

Sean O'Neill

I have no idea what you're talking about. Did you hear me say anything about Biden or Russia? I think people should be reasonable and think for themselves. But Sean Stone isn't bringing independent thought. He isn't fighting against anything. He just an overprivileged kid selling propaganda, just coming from another side.

Alex Waller

So you think that by voicing your disdain, he is going to suddenly turn around and believe the Russia hoax? Or that Biden is now suddenly a paragon of virtue because you believe him to be such? Art is about expression and he is speaking his mind because he is rightfully nervous about the future of this country. BEE is the ultimate punk artist sticking his finger up at the Repugnican-Dumbacrat-Corprate-War-machine that is destroying our lives and liberties.

Michael Bronspigel

QT is doing the rounds. Please tell me you've been in touch!

Christopher Webster

I'm not trying control in any sense and everyone knows Bret is going to do what he wants. I'm simply a longtime listener of the podcast who has some concern about where it is heading.

Alex Waller

Bret is an Artist, why are you trying to control him?

Michael Bronspigel

Conspiracy theory woke. Hahaha. Awful.

Mauricio Gonzalez Lara

Well, Kirn’s call on the election based on overhearing the women didn’t pan out! 😂 though even then I enjoyed the ambiguity of his comment. He didn’t endorse the crazy conspiracy theories, just pointed out that the non-white electorate was Trumpier than we think (born out by the data). Anyway I enjoy Kirn’s Twitter

Keith campbell

Silly comment. Russia gate was a nothing burger, but Stone actually openly works for an arm of the Russian state.

Keith campbell

I'm going to echo the sentiments of Dennis, Bret. Please do not let this podcast become just another anti sjw, wake up sheeple show. It's big business and you'll have no shortage of supporters but it's a scam, it's empty, and it's every bit as toxic as what you've spent the podcast's life speaking against. It's just buying into a different kind of group think.

Alex Waller

LOL, are you still sad about your Trump Russia conspiracy being a nothing burger?

Michael Bronspigel

You're show and novel gets better and better. Keep up the great work, and fuck the naysayers. I became a fan after Drudge highlighted your disdain for SJW culture. I quote you to everyone that will listen to me.

Michael Bronspigel

@Jorge Castillo YES and that is the extra reason I felt I had to be cranky and come here and comment, witch I really never do.

Iracema

😂😂😂

Ieuan Jones

1000% this

Ieuan Jones

The problem is the Bret and his guest have no clue about epidemiology or public health, that's why the Covid-19 discussions typically turn into nonsensical vitriol.

Dennis

Bret, please don't turn your podcast into a Covid-19 misinformation source like you did together with Sean Stone.

Dennis

I suspect some of these people don’t want to come on the podcast precisely because of the fringe alt-right personalities Bret keeps on inviting. A catch-22 of sorts.

Jorge Castillo

There's no doubt it has livened up the comments section.

Alex Waller

Battlefield Earth, the remake of Psycho, the remake of The Wicker Man, Gigli, The Blind Side, The Iron Lady, Catwoman, Batman & Robin, Madonna’s Swept Away, North, The Room, I Know Who Killed Me, Motherless Brooklyn, The Woman in the Window, Cool as Ice, From Justin to Kelly, Baby Geniuses...but Born on the Fourth of July is the worst?

Dave Durbin

I love U-Turn.

Paul Richardson

Maybe I need to give another listen to the Kirn interview. I just remember rolling my eyes a lot at it. He just seemed like a bit of a yay-hoo to me. Lots of hyperbolic statements like why would anyone read a book when they could read the internet, and that thing about how he knew trump would win after hearing a conversation on a plane where a group of women were talking about and appearing to believe in certain conspiracies. If I remember correctly he also appeared a little jealous of Franzen, and seemed to back off of his appreciation of Infinite Jest because Bret has this friction towards DFW. This is what I can remember from the interview. I may have a different opinion on it if I listened to it again. It wouldn't be the first time I would have gone back and had the interview be better than I remembered. I am a big fan of Up In The Air.

Alex Waller

Alex, mostly agree with you but what didn’t you like about Walter Kirn? I became a fan of his after that episode

Keith campbell

Of course, some of Bret’s guests really are on the conspiracy fringe so 🤷

Keith campbell

Bret mentioned it on past pods but didn’t go into its content ! That’s how I found out about it and read it. I also loved it. I think most people who wanted to spread the word, like him, didn’t want to poison the well but saying it was a CIA conspiracy..

Keith campbell

Love BEE, love the shards, don’t so much love interviews with Russia Today hosts. I suppose exposure of weird fringe views has a place but ..

Keith campbell

Has Bret read the Tom O’Neill book Chaos: Charles Manson, the CIA and the secret history of the 60s? I’m reading it now and it’s so fascinating and I think it’s right down Brets wheelhouse. If he’s already discussed this book on a pod and I missed it, I’d love to know which episode it was. It’d be a blast if he got Tom O’Neill on the pod too

Raffi N

I’m WAY smarter *googles hubris*

Matt

Lynch would be great.

Dirk

You suffer the hubris that you are smarter than Stone, but I doubt that.

Dirk

I can respect that. You make some solid comments here. The fanatic is that Rooney fellow. I would venture that the team thought he would be a good guest simply by virtue of his pedigree. And I’m sure that in hindsight this will end up being a notorious and sought after interview like the Armisen one. Just look how long we’ve been talking about it. Stone brings the contention. One of my points is this: He’s not boring! This is the only episode I felt compelled to listen to twice (well outside of the Armisen one), due to the response. That’s time invested.

Dirk

I think there may be a point you're missing, Dirk. Sean Stone is welcome to his beliefs whether they're reasonable or outlandish or anything in between, and he's welcome to express those views. That's obviously an extremely important thing. I also don't think anyone expects Bret to toe any lines. There's any number of podcasts and just about anything else where lines are toed, and if people wanted that they wouldn't have paid to come here. At least for me, the reason for the pushback is that I just don't see how team BEE thought this guest was worth anyone's time or investment. There's no shortage of places to hear this type of conversation. I could turn on crappy AM radio and hear stuff like this. There's always a chance that listeners won't like a guest, will disagree with them, think they're boring, whatever. That is baked into the cake, it's Chinatown. But this felt like indifference. A famous director's son who's been sheltered and whose beliefs have never truly been challenged, what are we supposed to gain from that conversation?

Alex Waller

That’s a good line of conversation, though I would hope BEE wouldn’t phrase it that way. In fact, BEE did try to steer it that way. Notice how BEE would often change the subject. But hey, I listened to this episode all over again due to the controversy he caused (the first time it didn’t have my full attention—I was multitasking), and Stone didn’t really say anything that crazy other than the robot replacement theory. Other than that he came across as very intelligent and insightful. He’s being misrepresented in the comments by a couple people as being kookier than he actually was. People that are very bothered (I hate the term ‘triggered’) are probably carrying a lot of political baggage.

Dirk

Some people were born to talk forever and ever with angelic tones - BEE. Some people have a voice that eventually grates like rusty nails across your eardrums - this guest.

CRAIG A SCHWARTZ

You'd be wrong about that, but I do appreciate that you're a fan of Point Break and Kathryn Bigelow, Billy.

Alex Waller

They probably still wear masks while driving alone.

Billy Schafer

Bret, in The Exorcist movie, Reagen is playing with the ouija board in the basement.

Adam Dugger

"Tell a dream, lose a reader." -- Henry James.

CRAIG A SCHWARTZ

Brets opening post-shards and Stone immediately going into ayahuasca-fueled ancient AI singularity rants was too comical

Sebastian ospina

"I got into Princeton, I got good grades." Yeeeeah, that's what got you in. I would LOVE for BEE to break in at points like this and say, " So you're well aware you're the scion of Hollywood royalty, who's had all his doors opened for him based on privilege and lucky stars. Tell us, though, about why *you* are uniquely interesting and worthy enough for my audience to care. Or are you?"

CRAIG A SCHWARTZ

9/10 of the comments against Sean Stone are just two very vocal people.

Dirk

😂

Dirk

RESPECT

Dirk

Clive Barker and Anna would be good indeed.

Dirk

Being very upset about Sean Stone is akin to people complaining that Armisen was a 'bad guest'. Technically Armisen was bad, but it was also one of the most memorable and talked about interviews. And certainly entertaining. It gave insight in to Armisen's character. On that note, maybe BEE will upload some Podcast One flashbacks--that would be great. As it is, we enjoy the privilege of a famous and influential author reading his newest novel to us--for only 5 dollars a month. I have no complaints. My avatar is my headshot :/

Dirk

Could not sit thru the interview. Todd is a million times more interesting than Stones kid. Would Todd please consider doing an interview?

sleeper

I agree this was the low point, this was even worse than Eli Roth ranting and ranting about participation trophies and missing the mark by 100 miles or Gigi lecturing us about toughness and grit.

Alex Waller

For one thing American Psycho was original.

Iracema

He should have Red Scare Dasha on! She just released a movie and he did have Anna as a guest a while ago.

Iracema

For anyone using the lazy fallacies of “He’s just asking questions”, “he just has unique opinions”, or whatever... Here’s how the interview went: “What do you think of the Thin Red Line?” “Well, I mean, Clinton could be a robot!”

Brian Rooney

Dirk, he’s not doing performance art. And you know that. Your avatar image makes you seem like a bot/troll anyway. Lame.

Brian Rooney

You have to be pretty brainwashed to think covid is a real epidemic! Stone made many good points and challenged the current narrative. Not many in California dares to do that.

Knokkel knokkel

It does blow my mind that the podcast can book this guy for an interview when there are so many amazing fits that are left on the table: writers-directors S Craig Zahler and Clive Barker; anti-PC producer Dallas Sonnier; film critic Elvis Mitchell; Chaos author Tom O’Neill; James Ellroy (new book out); B-movie auteur John Hyams (Alone). To name but a few.

David

identifying what Bret does with what Sean Stone does is a false equivalency

Alex Waller

He was a bad guest. No one is complaining that DiCaprio isn't on the podcast. No one wants to hear Leonardo dodge questions for two hours. This is a pay for podcast because its quality content with some real effort put into it. I'm happy to give Bret a pass, but no one needs to pay to hear this crap. end of story

Alex Waller

Like the guy that wrote AMERICAN PSYCHO gives two fucks who's offended by what he thinks! I love that about him! I hope he continues to stir up shit as long as he's alive. Longer!

CRAIG A SCHWARTZ

What are you expecting? BEE is controversial, so he's relegated to quirky, controversial, and interesting guests. I like that. Leonardo DiCaprio probably isn't going to come on the podcast, and he would probably be banal anyway.

Dirk

Disagree, it was a heart wrenching movie. One of the few that brought a tear to my eye. Tom Cruise was great.

Dirk

Sean Stone has so many people here 'big mad' that it's hilarious. It would be funny if he's doing performance art just to rustle people. Hahaha. The son of Hollywood royalty is a good guest, there's no denying that.

Dirk

Merch idea (t shirt tank hat): ‘The Tangible Participant ‘ in amazing 80s inspired font

Jen

Pretentious blowhard is obviously in the Stone DNA. And, Born on the Fourth of July is possibly the worst movie of the last 40 years. I’m sure Bret agrees too.

TL

Hi Oliver! Give your son a ring - he misses you.

James__

Huge respect for Sean Stone 🙏🏻

Knokkel knokkel

Amazing covid input! It’s all a scam. Good job BEE.

Knokkel knokkel

Hands down the worst guest BEE has had on his show, including the say-nothing celebrities from the Podcast One days. After first of all being treated to the Ladybird book of conspiracy theories, from JFK to Kosovo, we are then treated, unchallenged, to opinions from someone who "know[s] how the media works" about how we are all suckered into a Covid conspiracy ("wake up, sheeple!"). In what can only be described as a British parody of what a West Coast self-regarding wanker is like, he then extemporises at length on religious conversion and blue/red pilling. Like father, like son, I suppose.

Ieuan Jones

Have any of you read anything by Alain Robbe-Grillet? It might help illuminate some of what Bret's doing with The Shards, just a thought... but then again, it might not. And why is everyone sooooo worked up over Sean Stone? I don't get it. He's intelligent, well-spoken, and totally valid. Don't agree with him? That's fine - you don't have to. But, gee - ease up with the vitriol, okay? Your comments reveal nothing about Mr. Stone but they're telling me everything about you. Xoxo

Matt Markwalder

While I love this podcast and am not unsubscribing, people saying they're thinking of unsubscribing is definitely not anti free speech. People are paying their hard earned money because the podcast typically has way more effort and organization put into it than others, but this was just some straight up nonsense. It's true that there needs to be promotion of multiple viewpoints against those looking to suppress, but trolls only make that battle harder.

Alex Waller

Most people that didn't enjoy this interview have stated that they don't mind listening to guests that have differing opinions to their own. That is not the issue here. If the content is interesting, it doesn't matter that the guest doesn't agree with my world views. I don't want to live in an echo chamber. But if people are paying to listen to this podcast and they care about the future of it and the direction it may be heading, then it's worthwhile letting the creators know that they didn't enjoy a guest. I'm not upset about Sean's opinions, I could give a shit. What I care about is the quality of a podcast I hold dear and have really enjoyed otherwise.

Scarlett Graf

It's hit and miss for sure. I don't care if the guest is famous or not, but curation doesn't seem to be nearly as purposeful as 2 - 3 years ago where every guest seemed carefully picked and had a real reason for being there. There's still been guests that are very much within that framework. Wagner, Kirn(didn't enjoy that episode), Eugene K, Durkin, Oppenheim, Jarecki, Dunne, Hunter, Lynch, and probably Leone all fit pretty comfortably in with the type of guests we're used to. But there's no doubting there's been some real clunkers in there, plus it seemed like a total waste getting Pizzolatto in there and only discussing Tom Cruise. There's always been the occasional clunker, Paternot and Sternberg come to mind, who just seem like people Bret went out to dinner with, but they have been more common lately and it's compounded by the time warps

Alex Waller

The entire spiel about Todd’s “revelation” was so funny. It was like hearing kids in grade school saying “I don’t listen to MAINSTREAM stuff like Backstreet Boys or Britney Spears…I listen to HARDCORE music like Green Day.” Just so cute. Conspiracy-theory-woke is such a funny genre of person.

Dan Citriniti

Sean Stone is a banana, but he means well. And these days I can hardly blame anyone for grasping at all kinds of straws to create some kind of order to hang onto. But he makes for a rather tedious guest, apart from the movie talk. The Shards is intriguing, but I find it profoundly sad.

Michael Walsh

I’m starting to wonder about Bret and the producer’s ability to book guests. Very often they re-broadcast old interviews or invite “fame-adjacent” individuals (to put it generously). Sean Stone is a crackpot, but not even the original crackpot (Oliver). I’m probably dropping the podcast after the conclusion of “The Shards”.

Jorge Castillo

Bret has delivered lots of well thought out, concise commentary whether anyone agreed or not, but he was off here. An opposing view is not by definition a bad one, but it's not necessarily a good one either.

Alex Waller

I know. The normies are losing their shit because Bret won't toe the line.

Billy Schafer

Fun episode. Lots of triggered comments. Looking forward to Bret trashing Cruella next episode.

Jonathan Davis

Having unique guests is what makes the podcast interesting. If you have listened to BEE’s podcasts and have read his books, he is a contrarian to a certain extent. I’ve always loved his novels, but why I like his podcasts is that he has opinions that don’t necessarily align with the ideologies that gay men in particular are “supposed” to follow. That is freedom - to be able to have individual thoughts or ideas that don’t necessarily fit the status quo. This is one of the reasons books like “American Psycho” are so epic and yet the comments I am reading here are one of the reasons why it sadly would not be published today. We can’t censor everything to fit our own personal views. There would be nothing to listen to on this pod if we followed that thinking. One message that has been fluid over the years on BEE’s podcasts is to think for yourself, but also to have the ability to listen and distill others opinions, agree or not. Getting upset about a guests opinions and threatening subscriptions is the antithesis of free speech. This was an interesting interview and I don’t agree with much of his conspiracy style theories but it’s still an interesting listen. I assume most subscribers are fairly intelligent and are open to hearing others thoughts that might challenge their beliefs. This is what art, literature, film, and discussion are all about.

AshSebash

BEE: “Only x number of ppl died from covid, while actually sick people couldn’t get to the doctor, therefore restrictions were a stupid overraction” Less restrictions -> much more covid cases -> healthcare much more occupied/overwhelmed with covid patients -> more people dying of covid or other things

Samuel Setenyi

Oppenheim too but was definitely happy Jarecki was on.

Alex Waller

Just get Jonathan Franzen on the pod and all will be forgiven.. Here's to hoping after the Shards end we get old Bret monologues back. Been skipping most guest interviews lately. Griffin Dunne/Jarecki have been the highlights this season. Still love the pod and have faith the new format after the Shards end will be great

Charlie C

I’m glad ppl are saying this. The one trait that I admire in writers is their lucidity. Its great to hear Bret denounce delusional narratives from the left ... but only to end up hearing he drum up a nut job from the right? How is that different from the intellectual dishonesty of the SJWs? This interview was a low point... Is Bret on board with it? I could hear he wanting to change subjects, but it was an unhinged flow of talk show cliches. No push back. Yeah really? Chloroquine works and doctors were dancing and Dominium did what? Delusional right wing tropes parroted by an entitled disconnected guy. Sorry, not what I’m here for. Still, Loving the Shards, love Bret & his writing so I’ll wait and see.

Iracema

re: the guest - a good case against legalised weed…

Matt

It’s pretty obvious from this and the last episode that this is auto fiction not autobiography

Ieuan Jones

I completely agree - seriously considering cancelling my subscription. Sean Stone is a new low in a serious of guests who just seem to parrot ridiculous right wing conspiracies. The anti-vax info was just horrible and needs to be challenged. I enjoy the talk about film and the Shards - but please have some more varied guests and less of the infantile political stuff.

Cathy

This chapter of The Shards though!! I can’t remember being so absorbed by a story or it’s reading. I listened twice and would listen again. I want the next chapter but don’t want the story to end. Brava and/or big up, as they say.

Berkley Brady

That simulation post 2001 thing was ridiculous. Dude better read a few books if he thinks life was always awesome and stable in the 20th century.

Alex Waller

Completely agree. I respect other people's opinions and they're interesting, even if you don't agree with them. The stuff about the doctors and nurses 'dancing' on the covid wards was rather silly and offensive. The rest of it was. ..well, whatever. It must be quite exhausting being Scott day to day. The best part of the interview was when Bret got into the the absentee, dogmatic father and separation stuff which could explain the control issues conspiracists seem to suffer from. Or am I just projecting from the simulation?😀

James__

I adore BEE and love The Shards. I enjoy having my opinions challenged by listening to guests that have opposing views to my own. But this is the first time where I really struggled to get to the end and wanted to switch off several times. Some of the comments made were ridiculous. Sean saying that scientists are only concerned with fact and don't recognise subjective opinion is horse shit. Qualitative research is concerned with exactly that, subjective views and opinions! It gets published in journals just like quantitative research does. Whole research fields are dedicated to the subjective so it made me laugh. Honestly would've preferred another timewarp. Really looking forward to the next installment of The Shards!

Scarlett Graf

“A chill touched his inward loneliness. He was, he knew at that moment, really without beliefs, without hope—either for himself or for the world. Almost without friends, certainly without allies. Alone.”

nc

Haha, We are on a showbiz kids streak.

Alex Waller

Next week on BEE, Frank Stallone!

Jorge Castillo

Fascinating.

slimshadyfan666

Great interview! Sean Stone is very intelligent and I enjoyed hearing his unique perspective on current events. I wish he was gay, single & not famous because I have a major crush. BEE’s tequila seemed to really kick in by the end of the interview - I don’t think I’m the only one who thinks Sean’s hot! I’ve missed BEE’s thoughts on current events. I enjoy the movie deep dives, but I also enjoy the social commentary, whether I agree or not. The Shards is picking up steam. I thought Robert Mallory was a projection of BEE’s ideal self but the lunch with the aunt (suspension of disbelief for this scene) has blown that theory. Always interested to see where this story is heading.

AshSebash

Interestingly, for someone on the fence about whether the shards is real or fiction, this ep felt the most novelistic, the most fictional. Perhaps just something in the way it was written but this felt we were tuning in for another ep of Bret Ellis, Super Detective. Was he really that confrontational to this woman who he hardly knew? Why was the aunt just dumping on her nephew if her aim was to get them to become friends? The drinks seems a flimsy reason.

David

i guess the next guest will be alex jones.

Oleg

Bret's politics are some of my favorite parts of the podcast. He's spot on.

Billy Schafer

I think Ryan is the killer

Dave Carlson

Good comment here. This interview was a misstep and way below what team BEE is capable of.

Alex Waller

I’ll stick around for the summer. But this podcast is getting nutty, dude... Not cool, Bret. This interview ain’t right, man...

Brian Rooney

I know SO many Todd’s it’s ridiculous. Not in the metal health struggles but in the penny FINALLY dropping that something very wrong is going on, and is being clumsily covered up, and in a not even concealed fashion. For those still living in a sort of extended adolescent innocence about the world, largely Millennials and Z’s (though, in truth, many Xers and Boomers as well, though I find their strain to be more of an opportunistic ultra passive aggressive type joyfully exploiting the situation to be awful to other people) this can be a very painful and disorienting experience (not that I pretend to have a clue what it’s like to live with such a disorder nor obviously do I reduce it to simply a reaction to the dishonest-understatement of the century-reality being foisted on people 24/7.) For the brave ones like Todd they’re willing to work through it. For the weaker, the dissonance, the shame of the conned, the totality in which they’ve been wrong in something their identity and self-worth has been erected on being oh so very RIGHT about is too much and they kind of go crazy, crawling back into denial and willful ignorance which manifests in very ugly ways. For those of us Xers with even the slightest street smarts, savvy, critical thinking ability and understanding of rhetoric (and in my case, having my innocence about politics and the political media rug pulled in early adolescence via my dad being in politics and seeing how vile and ruthless and cynical the whole thing is) we smelled the bullshit a mile away. A large segment of the population had been driven literally mad by an asshole New York real estate developer and reality TV oddity becoming President, and a drowning corporate media made a business decision to attract this audience at any cost, becoming almost literal pornography for these flipped out souls, creating totally obvious nonsense out of whole cloth that was devoured by the target audience. It worked: ratings clicks and subscribers went through the roof…the unfortunate side effect of this audience narcotic being the total destruction of their brands by anyone remotely interested in actual journalism, and the terrible real world consequences of their narrative driven ‘reporting’. Anyone who knows anything about media or entertainment knew that they KNEW what they were doing but didn’t care, a level of dishonesty and cynicism and blinding themselves of the inevitable day of reckoning-behavior very much like an addict-if you take that extra pill every day, you WILL run out early…but fuck it right now it’s great-that you just stared at it with shock and revulsion, before cutting it out of your life-forever. SO many who used to, like me, enjoy nothing better than a Sunday morning with a pot of coffee and the NYT and LAT wouldn’t use either now to line the cage of kept pigeons. And for whom the truth and the historical miracle of living in a constitutional republic mean more to them than their ‘team’ (of course we have one no longer, but for the vast majority I’m discussing here it was obviously the Democrats) stating the obvious about how utterly horribly and literally criminally Trump was treated by the previous administration, Clinton campaign’, corporate ‘press’ and how the pandemic was exploited to create highly dangerous and easily gamed voting changes by executive order and outsourcing much of the process to private companies (Facebook etc) to, at best, FAVOR his opponent, that a tragic event involving a cop and citizen was also exploited to suit the Narrative, billions of $ in damages deaths and the destruction of effective policing resulting in the 100% predictable explosion in violent crime (harming, of course, black people more than anyone) are all disgusting and indicative of true sociopathy at work. And these people I know were almost all exclusively what I would call Paul Wellstone Democrats, including myself. Traditional liberals who respected actually DECENT principled ACTUAL liberal politicians, not the current totally illiberal rabid violent authoritarian/corporate leftists that now represent that ‘team’. Wait until the lid really blows on the Covid origin, effective treatments intentionally demonized, and the cover-up and blindingly obviously complicit censorship by the social media platforms. The current flood of the red pilled will become of biblical proportions. What’s been done is so hideous, so evil, it’ll go down as one of the darkest eras in modern history. And BLM…they’re coming down so fast it’s only a matter of time until the sandblasters come out to rid our streets of their name that (without asking, you know, the CITIZENS of the cities) was painted in massive letters on our public streets. Black people I know,, on both an acquaintance and friend basis (which is many, given the city I now live in) all across the age and socioeconomic spectrum, absolutely despise them, see it for the money grab divide-and-conquer tool it is, watch as 1000 more black people have been murdered, the most vulnerable are left to fend for themselves , nd race relations are set back 25 years, what’s-her-name collects a portfolio of millions in LA real estate. Are you fucking serious? ONLY young naive status seeking white kids and brain-dead athletes and entertainers with net worths in the 9 figures still take it remotely seriously. I hope (but doubt) that somehow Todd will read this (absurdly long) comment, and understand HOW MANY others who’ve taken this similar painful and head-spinning journey of institutional betrayal are out here. And the closet door, which us homos of GenX or for whatever other reason spent a lot of our lives trapped behind and know how isolating and depressing it is, is rapidly opening. And once it starts, it’ll be kicked off it’s hinges. Their campaign of censorious terror ends as soon as just a few more open their mouths publicly, and they are and will. And the moronic insults and ‘cancel words’ they use to try to ruin lives will be seen as the emperor’s new clothes they are. Honesty and sunshine are pretty damn good healers. Almost as good as banishing from your life forever the people who bombarded the world with bullshit and lies so twisted and diabolical mental illness is a quite logical byproduct. It’s them, not us. Another amazing SHARDS. Like a great book I both can’t wait for the end to find out how it all shakes out but am simultaneously sad knowing it’s coming to an end. Extra points for the portrayal of a half-tanked early 80’s crackpot Westside woman…not an easy pull.

MikeE

How many more episodes are there? It’s mind blowing.

Yorick van Wageningen

Very interesting theory 🤔

Reservoir Frog

Holy SHIT. THE SHARDS!!!!

Reservoir Frog

The Covid rant was insanity. But, I love BEE. I basically tune out his politics

John Dalton

I wouldn't be so quick to jump on seeming anachronisms. Remember- this a story being related to us in the present day by an unreliable/unstable narrator. At one point, he accidentally calls Abby by the name of Matt Keller's mother. That may have been a mistake, but it was no accident.

John Dalton

What anachronisms are you referring to?

Oscar

you call him "Ellis"?

slimshadyfan666

fuck you, pay me

slimshadyfan666

Dave Durbin

Great guest! Love Oliver Stone and his son makes for fascinating conversation.

Dirk

Wishing the best to you and Todd, Bret! For what it is worth, I think it is a bit of a false argument that covid's high survival rate is proof that lockdowns were unnecessary. As far as I know, the only reasons for the lockdowns were about fear of overloading hospitals. They only had so many beds, and it would be catastrophic to go over the limit, it is really simple as that. Fauci projected 100,000 deaths as something that was probably not going to happen and it ended being 600,000, so it wasn't as if this thing wasn't for real, and just because someone didn't die didn't mean they didn't go through total hell getting sick. I was an essential worker during the very height of the pandemic at a busy place in NJ, and personally I'm grateful that Phil Murphy made masks mandatory, as essential workers were pretty much thrown to the wolves while no one knew what was going on, and plenty of people didn't care. As we're seeing now, there's going to be lots of things discovered in the fallout and aftermath of the pandemic, but I can assure you that people would feel differently about the pandemic if they had to be out in it everyday.

Alex Waller

I maintain this would’ve been better released weekly in smaller chunks. Glaring anachronisms are kicking me right out of enjoying the story. I’m curious now to see how it can be edited further

sean in hawaii

Indeed. https://www.reddit.com/r/BEEPodcast/comments/nqwib6/bee_is_the_trawler_the_key_is_the_bateman/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

Dirk

More and more signs leading to book-Bret being the killer. I believe he killed the girl Robert was dating after they were together at the cinema. Bret mentions the names of the other victims but Roberts aunt doesn't recognize any of them. He is the only one who knows about them. He's also the one who's constantly been stalking Robert in LA.

Jonas Hollerup