Transparency About Steam and Patron Tiers

Please read the update at the top of the post. We made the decision not to modify any benefits for patrons on Patreon/SS or provide different versions of content for either platform. The Steam version will be functionally identical, and will simply be missing the "Support Us!" button on the main menu. Those who support DEVELOPMENT are always our priority. These are the people who are with us through the ups and downs and who we communicate with daily in Discord. We hope Steam visibility bring in more fans, to join our day-to-day community, but the expectation and nature of the relationship is fundamentally different. Conversely, we are not going to ask our development supporters to purchase Chasing Sunsets on Steam. The only difference between what we are doing here and what we've been doing on itch.io from the beginning is the scale of the audience. :)

Stone Fox Studios

so what would that mean for those of us who joined after the nov1st deadline? I think it is unfair for steam to put limits on developers like that. Supporting the development is more important than sales and I don't use steam anyway. I don't like how intrusive they are. I think there should be a workaround or at least an option for the dev to have control over their own work... I honestly feel like steam is a big mistake for most dev's but that's my opinion. As independent developers you should control your creation and so on. I know it's a huge platform and will probably generate a lot of income but at the same time I feel like they take from us the people who are supporting you. I know I'm a new supporter and all but I plan on being for a long time as long as steam doesn't trample the benefits of support.

WastedTalent

It isn't clear if Steam's $8.99 is a one time fee and you would get all (future) updates at no extra cost. I like to think that supporting with $1 per month soon adds to more than $8.99. I didn't see the update before posting. That's good news, I think.

Telly

You should have in mind that, in some country´s, you can´t bye those kind of games on steam. In the freest country of the world germany those games are censored. There´s only patreon or itch.io for free people like us.

The way to get round it is to have your own launcher that is linked to patron. There's a game that I'm a patron to that has had to do this because of steam. The launcher also does the updates to the game so we don't have to redownload the game. You should speak to Undergrad Steve who does collegekings as that's what they have had to do.

Peter B

Was thinking that as well. Maybe with a bot to automize the process, i'm sure that can be done on Discord somehow. Of course that means being on Discord.

I would be glad to give advice, but I don't understand much about it. I support the project because it is interesting to me. Your game is quite popular in its environment and there is no problem downloading it for free in my native russian language. In good russian. Game gets translated pretty quickly. But it's more pleasant for me to download from here. Because for a little support I get an interesting and high-quality game. The basis of my subscription is availability. You have the right to do what you see fit. Thank you for discussing this with us. Give it a try .... and maybe try adding and releasing the game in other languages. I don't think this is news to you, but it can also give you the opportunity to develop the game. Good luck.

Mass

I would suggest talking to someone at Andrealphus Games. They have both a successful Patreon and Steam platform. As far as I can tell the only difference is achievements on Steam. Patreon gets updated a week before Steam, but the update is the same. The monthly cost (for one month) on Patreon is lower than the game cost on Steam, yet they’ve been on Steam for 2 years. There are others but that one stands out as the most obvious.

Take into consideration that as a German I cannot buy these type of games (porn) on steam at all. I dont know if there are other countries affected as well.

Alexander Hochbaum

Yeah i get it that many developers try to get their stuff out on steam.... but steam ist not really supportive, they want the deals to happen on their platform only, nowhere else. So you have to deal with it. And i can udnerstand steam too... lets face it, we literally BUY the game over patreon. Call it support or whatever... you give money to get the game, thats the whole point. And Steam doesnt want that under their price... thats understandable. So other steam releasing DEVs decided to give the game only to those who give more money on patreon, some decided to make the updates available... it is what it is. You want to make a living out of the game (and maybe new projects), so steam is maybe a good way to do so in combination with patreon. For "small" patrons that means to bite in the sour apple i guess. Some DEVs decided to not give me access to the game anymore if i will not upgrade my status, i will not do that, and canceled some memberships now... to be honest, a whole VN is not worth a price of an high standard fullprice game with hundred hours of playtime. I see them more like a advanced "book". Normally a new book is purchased bei 12-20€ and thats what iam willing to pay for an VN. So i will stay a patron, and voted for the grandfather model, which is completly fine by me.

Haehnchen

Not sure if this is feasible and could potentially make the experience more troublesome for those seeking to purchase on Steam, but would it be possible to have the main "product" on Steam be the Prologue and the rest of the chapters be downloadable content for it? This would depend on the total number of planned chapters, but say there were 9 total chapters (Prologue and Ch 1-8) then the Prologue could be priced at $1 and each subsequent chapter as DLC for $1 each, thus adding up to the mentioned $8.99, or close enough, while still pricing individual content at a level the same, or potentially very comparable, to the current Deckhand tier. I know some Steam games have a "buy game + all DLC" button and this could still give people an easy way to purchase the whole experience, plus it might give the option to release what is currently available through Steam and add in additional chapters as individual DLC as they are completed. This could just be an unnecessarily complex solution to get around what sounds like a laxly enforced Steam policy, but it would also give people an opportunity to put down a small investment for the initial experience then get hooked and make a more substantial commitment as many of us did.

Kylo Ren'Py

I appreciate that this conversation is being had and there is positive dialog back and forth. I wish I had ideas to put forth.

Akack

shit, uts me in a shit spot, like, I will buy your game on steam but I would've prefered keep pledging to you guys, you are just too good for me not too... I'll see if I can up my pledge or something. will you update as you go on steam? I'm also on discord so I guess grandfathering is alright too. still, not pledging just to get your game, it's actually about supporting you guys y'know. I'm around discord whatever happens.

Darm

Do what you think is most sustainable long term. Most developers I have seen are just grandfathering in as you have described in #1.

DirtyBird

Grandfathering sounds like the best solution to me, but whatever you guys choose I'll be happy, I would be supporting at this tier with no benefits, and could always just grab the game from a certain site.

Well, my solution, because I am fortunate enough to be able to do so, is to increase my donation to "Helmsman." I do think the "name it something different for Steam" has merits, however.

We don't intend to eliminate the Patreon download option, Michael. Our understanding is that we simply can't "undersell" Steam here. As I said above, we are far more interested in doing right by those who supported development than anyone else. In other words, Steam would just become another avenue to acquire the game, but never the only one.

Stone Fox Studios

i drop my contributions when there no new chapter due then boost it up to get the full download when the new chapters due.........honestly i dont like the idea of going thru steam for these types of games

Michael LuPayne

This kind of discussion is exactly what we were hoping for, and Jufot's post above sent me to one of the secret adult game dev Discords to start a discussion there. If it turns out to be a toothless policy with no enforcement, that introduces a fourth option of simply not changing anything and letting the chips fall where they may. Given that Steam is already embroiled in anti-competitive lawsuits on several fronts about this very topic, it may be that they simply have no appetite to defend the difference between product sale and development support-by-donation in court. :) I'll update the original post with a ping as I dig deeper.

Stone Fox Studios

That's a fair ask. The relevant documentation appears to be the "Pricing Parity Clause" in the Steamworks Distribution Agreement. While the language is there, most of the examples I can find where this was leveraged were with Itch.io and Epic Games Store sales. As for your second point, I do see cases where other devs keep tally of total patronage and provide a download link or key when it meets or exceeds the Steam purchase price, but that doesn't feel very scalable. That said, some $1 patrons contribute for a month, download the game, and never donate again, so the assertion that a patron pays more here than on Steam is often (but not always) true! That's neither here nor there, however, as I said above - We have fundamental differences with Steam on the distinction between purchasing a product and supporting the development of one (and obtaining a benefit as a result.) I will work to put together the expansion you requested above and make it available here.

Stone Fox Studios

I could not disagree more with this comment. As a developer they are not doing this to pass time, as in all things they wish to profit from their art so they can continue doing it. As a supporter I want them to profit as much as they can from where they can. It just means that some original ideas need to come up to not upset anyone. But to tell a developer, no you should not put you game on the largest online gaming system does not benefit anyone. Of course, no offense meant towards your idea just my thoughts on it.

Junaluska Hall

Look at Inceton Games, their “Echoes of Lust” you find on Steam as “Lust Theory”, no problem there

Joe H

This is an existing revenue stream and tanking it in hopes of a new one ( that is a one time fee ) doesn't seem like a great idea. Especially as many people here would seemingly jump ship if both offerings are the same and lower tiers lose their value. So be sure to run some numbers on similar titles before making a final decision.

What I think will work best and keep other companies from feeling undersold is to add up each individuals amount they have supported the game with, then from here on post that anyone in the $1- & $5-dollar tiers cannot have access until they reach say ten dollars total payments. Should keep all happy. they certainly cannot tell a developer that they cannot accept terms on payments lol.

Junaluska Hall

They are all bad, but grandfathering seems the least bad. > history has shown Steam does view Patreon as a "sale." Can you elaborate on this? Do you know of other games/developers that got into trouble with Valve over this? Because, it seems to me that a patron here ends up paying *much more* than a Steam buyer, since Patreon is a monthly subscription and Steam is a one-time purchase.

jufot

Honestly, I'm not even gonna vote. I think you should do whatever works easiest for you. I would pledge more but I'm laid off. If i have to up my pledge temporarily to download updates or whatever i don't mind. Do what you think is best longterm for development.

Kuke