The Zygon Inversion, Gallifrey Gals Get Wibbly Wobbly! S9Ep8
Added 2021-11-11 18:01:02 +0000 UTCIt's time for the thrilling conclusion to The Zygon Invasion! Will Bonnie win? Will the Doctor get through to her? Let's find out what Paula thinks!
https://vimeo.com/643612846/426e4ca312
PAULA DEMING
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KATRINA ALYSHA
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Gallifrey Gals Theme Song by: NoAnie Music
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Comments
I'm very sure that Clara is only special to the 12th Doctor because of how she's affected his personality in that regeneration. I'm guessing none of you have heard the theory that the personality of the Doctor is determined by his final thoughts before regenerating. As the 9th doctor he was more ruthless because he just got done fighting in the war, by the end he had fallen in love with Rose, so he became someone who was perfect for her. At the end of the 10th Doctor's life he was sad to go and wished he had more time, so he became someone who was young and full of energy, who would make the most of the time he had. By the end of the 11th Doctor's life he was old, exhausted and sad because of all the people he had lost, so he became someone who was unhindered by his connections to people and would not be so sensitive. However Clara broke down his defenses and made him vulnerable. You saw how strained the relationship between Clara and the 12th Doctor was. She struggled to understand the Doctor and he struggled to understand her. Eventually they formed a strong connection. The harder it is to form a bond with someone the harder it is to break it. Clara probably wouldn't have had such a close bond with the previous Doctors, including the 11th who was extremely close to her. Each of his companions had a close bond with the Doctor they traveled with, but if you put the 10th Doctor with Amy and Rory he would not have cared for them the way the 11th Doctor did, and if you put the 12th Doctor with Rose they probably wouldn't even have talked to each other. Even with how close each Doctor was with their companions the bond of Clara and the 12th Doctor was special. His aloof personality should have pushed her away, and several times it almost did, but she stayed and it made their bond stronger.
Thomas Gabriel White
2022-12-21 03:01:47 +0000 UTCI don't know if it's ever made clear, but my assumption was that Clara actually got replaced some time during her not adventuring with 12 during episode 6 of this series, and so his "a month" statement about how long he thought she was dead was him actually saying how long ago he had noticed her behavior change and believed she had been replaced (like 11 with Amy who was implied to know she was a flesh avatar before the show revealed it to be the case). I'm pretty sure she is not replaced during this episode, as both the mother and father of the boy in the apartment remain present after Clara departs which always suggested to me that she was not replaced during that scene, but some time earlier.
Bill Roland
2022-03-23 04:58:24 +0000 UTCI think Peter Nolan has it pretty much right with the companions. Take Sarah Jane Smith - though some of her story was built up post her primary appearances, she was very much the companion of 3 and 4, and though she encounters 10 and they are clearly connected, it is not in the same way as she was with 3 and 4. 9 we only see Rose and 10 connects closely with Rose as his first companion and closely with Donna as his last. 11 intersects with these but is never as connected with them as 10. 11 has an extremely close companion bond with Amy, to the point of ceasing participation in the universe upon losing her, but 12 shows none of the fallout that 11 had from this. At this point 12s only companion is Clara, and 12 is at least partially written to have adopted his current form to change the relationship that 11 was building with her when he realized that as much as he'd had a similar connection to Amy, Amy was flirtatious but always actually unavailable. I know by now you've finished the 12 and Clara stories so I think it's safe to say that the intensity of their relationship proves to have been integral to a story they were building of how dangerous it could be for the doctor to get to close to a companion.
Bill Roland
2022-03-23 04:55:17 +0000 UTCOn Clara and companions generally, I feel like there's always a slight implication that, even though they're all the same person, the Doctor is slightly removed emotionally from things that happened in earlier incarnation, like they happened to another person. So Clara is very specific to Twelve in how he feels about her, in the same way that, of all his companions all through history, it was Amy who Eleven imagined with him at the end.
Peter Nolan
2021-11-26 10:38:26 +0000 UTCI think the thing in terms of revolutions and war is that it only takes one side to start a war. So that's why you need the two sides in this scene, even if the focus is on Bonnie, with Kate also needing to be talked down to an extent. If *either* side doesn't see reason then war is inevitable. But you're right that they play lip service to the concept of "sit down and talk," as the alternative to war but then they actually *don't.* Which isn't something that had struck me before.
Peter Nolan
2021-11-26 10:35:27 +0000 UTCI wonder if its a regeneration thing? Each companion specific to Doctor's iteration is more connected to that aspect of the Doctor? When he speaks of her getting into HIS mind, its that Regeneration's mind. Each Regeneration has their own unique quirks, and in many ways is a different person than the 'overall' Doctor.
Mr Kitty
2021-11-16 02:36:02 +0000 UTCOk, Q & A with the legend that is Peter Capaldi in UK Sunday newspaper The Observer. Here's the link https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2021/nov/14/peter-capaldi-st-christopher-debut-album-interview?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other
Chris Padwick
2021-11-14 17:28:05 +0000 UTCShe's the bootstrap companion. She told those things to the Doctor as a child because she learned them from the Doctor as an adult. I almost consider the impossible girl and the Clara in the post-IG episodes as two different companions. As the IG, she was a mystery to be solved, but not much else and I deal with the inserting her in all of the Doctor's history by basically ignoring it. But after that arc concluded, I think they started giving her better character development, although I agree it had been muddied by the IG arc as her beginning.
John
2021-11-12 19:27:18 +0000 UTC10's reaction to seeing Sara Jane again really drove home just how important she was to him. They're all important to him, and they don't stop being important when they're no longer traveling with him.
John
2021-11-12 19:23:20 +0000 UTCA lot of people are sticking up for Clara here, but I completely I agree with y'all. The way Moffat put Clara on a pedestal has never sat right with me. People comparing her to Rose are completely missing the point. Rose entered the Doctor's life at a very important point in his life, right after the Time War. We saw her help him overcome that trauma and rediscover who he truly is. It makes all the sense in the world why Rose became so important to him. It wasn't always sunshine and rainbows though, we also saw Rose and the Doctor clash a lot in that first series. We saw them both grow and accept one another, understand the others viewpoints. It was a well written dynamic because we saw it grow naturally across an entire series. Clara came into the show immediately as this mystery box, which prevented any substantial character development. So when the time came for the reveal that she was the impossible girl, it couldn't have felt any more unearned. It got worse though. That twist at the end of Listen. You know, the one where she basically teaches the Doctor his life's philosophy, aggravates me to no end. Clara has been positioned as this incredibly important companion throughout her entire time on the show, but Moffat has never bothered to do the work to actually justify any of it.
Azmat Mahmood
2021-11-12 18:11:20 +0000 UTCI get the confusion and irritation of "Clara's the most special" but as others have said above I think it's particular to 12 at this time. When i get a little salty about it I remember 11's absolute grief over losing Amy/Rory. Or 10's visiting with Wilfred and watching Donna, or when the Master comes for her and she faints to escape being turned he says "you didn't think I'd leave my best friend defenseless did you" or something to that effect. Hell as much as the romance made me cringe, he literally gives a version of himself to Rose. Also, the sheer joy on his face whenever he encounters Sarah Jane, Kate, even Jack shows just how important they all are to him/them.
Alisa Loudner
2021-11-12 08:04:49 +0000 UTCI always saw 12 and Claras relationship similar to 10 and Rose and 11 and Amy; the whole "the first face this face saw" being a strong attachment. Also, Missy handpicked Clara to be a companion for the Doctor knowing he would "go to hell if she asked" and the Clara literally killing herself to save him by jumping into his timestream. Its bound to cause attachment issues, especially considering how he lost Amy and Rory, hes probably worried something like that could happen again. Im sure 10/11 would do and say this for Rose/Amy if the places were traded. Anyway, LOVE Capaldi here, some of his best work imo, Jenna was amazing as Bonnie, truly believed her and Clara were different people. Looking forward and am nervous for how the rest of the season goes 👀 love to you both x
DeathSwitch
2021-11-12 07:34:32 +0000 UTCI feel that Clara is special in the way that all the companions are special. Each one changes and challenges the Doctor. I feel the heartache of him losing Rose and subsequently Martha and Donna's treatment that made him change to the Matt Smith character so he could try to get rid of that pain. I think Clara changed him to see that he needed to be more adult and take things more serious, so he became Capaldi. Each companion has done this. So I don't compare them as they all have a place of honor in the world of Who.
Keith Zirwes
2021-11-12 06:45:51 +0000 UTCTHAT WOULD'VE BEEN SO AWESOME! <3
Nicole Mazza
2021-11-11 23:42:49 +0000 UTCP.S. Also, I totally get that you feel annoyed about the Clara-as-a-fave thing because you love other companions too. And I think that's probably why so many people DON'T have the same issue with Rose -- because she was their first companion. But for people like me that grew up on the Classic Series and kept getting this message of 'ROSE IS THE ONLY COMPANION THE DOCTOR EVER LOVED' thrown in our faces repeatedly, it was extra-annoying, because I was always left thinking: 'What about all the other close relationships he's had with companions in the past? What about his love for them? Do they mean nothing now? Are you saying, for example, Rose is more important than Susan, his own freaking granddaughter?". Ugh. 🤬
Nicole Mazza
2021-11-11 23:40:58 +0000 UTCThat's such an awesome part! I originally straight-up cried when she said 'Five rounds, rapid'! <3
Nicole Mazza
2021-11-11 23:34:52 +0000 UTCFunny, I could totally have said all the 'Why is Clara so special?' ranting about Rose's treatment on the show, especially because RTD went on to literally throw the two following companions -- Martha and Donna -- under the bus in her name. 😠 But ultimately, I think it's really because Clara is his CURRENT best friend, so that's why she's on his mind -- she's the one right in front of him right now. And honestly, I buy that WAY MORE than him favoring a companion over one that's GONE vs someone RIGHT THERE (see: Rose's WTF plotline). 🤷♀️
Nicole Mazza
2021-11-11 23:34:14 +0000 UTCThe 50th anniversary it was literally Clara who caused the doctor to change and not push the button and change his entire time stream to save Gallifray. Thus "I let Clara Oswald into my mind" She was literally the reason for it. She is also his most "important" companion as when she was broken into different pieces all that actually still happened in canon and her splintered selfs helped him out as much as she could throughout history in the background.
Scott Archibald
2021-11-11 22:44:53 +0000 UTCWhat you need to understand is that it's the twelve doctor who find Clara so special, not THE DOCTOR as a whole. when eleven was about to regenerate, he kind of sidelined Clara so that he could say goodbye to an hallucination of Amy, because "the first face he ever saw" was more important to him than the person who was actually in the room. now, after he regenerate, Clara hold that position in his hearts.
tal goren
2021-11-11 22:34:13 +0000 UTCKate’s “five rounds, rapid” line is a nod to the character’s father, Brigadier Lethbridge-Stewart. It was something he famously said, in his typically nonchalant way, while trying to deal with an alien creature in a 3rd Doctor story. That same Classic story also featured another character called Osgood - a science technician for UNIT - and it is assumed that today’s Osgood is a descendant of that earlier character, perhaps his niece, and followed his career with UNIT.
Lloyd B
2021-11-11 21:57:53 +0000 UTCThe Doctor saying “I let Clara Oswald get into my mind” is just stating the fact that at the point of the three Doctors about to push the button to destroy Gallifrey it was Clara’s pleading look that pulled 11 away from the brink and made him change his mind. Also, it isn’t that Clara is more important than any other companion, or that the Doctor cares for her more than others. Every companion is the most important person for the Doctor while they are with him, and he is “obsessed” with protecting them all.
Lloyd B
2021-11-11 21:51:21 +0000 UTCI think some stuff in your last 2 sentences may be a bit spoilery for Paula.
Firefly24601
2021-11-11 21:44:28 +0000 UTCJust Capaldi talking for ten minutes is utterly captivating. He goes through the full range of emotions and behaviors - comic faux game show host, flippantly dismissive, sarcastic, furious rage, pleading, tearful regret. Hell, I bet he could carry an entire episode on his own, just him soliloquizing for 45 minutes - that’s something I’d like to see!😀
Lloyd B
2021-11-11 21:36:01 +0000 UTCCame to read about how great Capaldi was in this episode, find comments about Clara, sigh
Sufyaan Kazi
2021-11-11 21:34:42 +0000 UTCLove Capaldi 🥰
Sufyaan Kazi
2021-11-11 21:31:11 +0000 UTCYou realise, of course, if you had a cat named OCD, it would be the one to always push shit off ledges and tables!
Darren Withers
2021-11-11 21:23:48 +0000 UTCUGH! Osgood was supposed to be a companion! :(
Bill
2021-11-11 21:13:58 +0000 UTC20:00 Wow! Someone has a temper. Just reboot it and it'll be fine.
Bill
2021-11-11 20:38:25 +0000 UTCIn my opinion, the Doctor has strong connections with each and every companion he has; when he has them. When they leave, he hangs onto a bit of them; but he let's them go and moves on to the next companion and forms a connection.... whatever that connection may be.
Amy Chlebus
2021-11-11 20:25:33 +0000 UTCI think there's a contradictory element with being a long-term Doctor Who fan. I never watched classic who but after 15 years of the new show you literally feel the same fatigue the Doctor often expresses; its immortal! Patterns repeat, elements of life become less special. We're literally at a point now where Russell T Davies is show running, AGAIN! I hope that he's grown and change and has new stuff to add to this never-ending story. Time gives perspective! After watching Chibnall I appreciate Moffat all the more whereas a lot of the Davies era feels dated and hokey to me now. Lets hope the show can still regenerate. Because the Timelords can only die so many times!
George Baxter
2021-11-11 20:23:13 +0000 UTCHonestly, in New Who I think whichever companion the Doctor is with at the time is The Most Important Companion He's Ever Had. They all save the Earth/Gallifrey/Universe/The Doctor/Reality so many times.
Firefly24601
2021-11-11 20:09:19 +0000 UTCEvery new incarnation imprints on their first companion: 10 couldnt live without Rose, 11 couldn't live without Amy and the same applies for 12 and Clara. Plus this Doctor technically has had Clara as his companion for 900 years, thanks to Trenzalore. She's the impossible girl who saved his timeline, got him more regenerations and betrayed him worse than any other companion. Its why she means so much to him! And Missy literally chose to push them together because she knew Clara would spin him out! Honestly its completely justified by the story.
George Baxter
2021-11-11 20:07:49 +0000 UTCPaula you pretty much hit on the single most common criticism of this episode, which is that there's not enough focus on what the Zygons' actual problem with the situation is. I guess my defense would just be that an episode should be able to *gesture* at certain ideas without everything in the story being a perfect one-to-one metaphor. The story works as an anti-war parable, so you can definitely poke holes in it if you think of situations where war or violence might be necessary, but that's not really engaging with the episode as it is (which is pretty much just me giving a wordier version of what you already said, that the story isn't *about* that). Also, with the whole Clara thing, I feel you with walking on eggshells. People have stroooong feelings about their favorite/least favorite companions. But here's my opinion anyway. I think a lot of strong feelings do kind of stem from the idea that the Doctor caring about a companion in a way that seems unique does sort of diminish his relationship with other companions, ESPECIALLY if you don't particularly relate to or like that character. If Katrina's been in the fandom for a while, I'm betting she remembers the Rose backlash for pretty much the same reason. My take is, this mostly comes from people conflating the limitations of Doctor Who the television show with deliberate writing decisions. Obviously, the Doctor is going to seem to care inordinately about the current companion ... because they're the co-lead of the show. And finally, here's the obligatory Moffat defense. I know his Moffat-isms drive some people up a wall, but one thing I've always appreciated is that he leaves room for head canons. IS Clara particularly important to the Doctor, or does he feel this way about all his companions? Is it because of her splintering herself across his timeline, the Day of the Doctor, or something else? Or is 12 being so attached to her an intentional character flaw? There's evidence for all of the above, which makes it fun! (Note: I say this knowing some people absolutely hate this writing style). Anyway, that's my random thoughts and yes I was thinking about this speech when I signed up for patreon.
Trav
2021-11-11 19:59:52 +0000 UTCCan I get me another serving of 12 monologue please. Oh this serving is particularly spicy one. I think this particular travelling companion is special, because they were chosen. Like all the others were for degree of reasons. Also because they are written that way, that's the writers prerogative. Obviously it's perfectly fine if you don't feel it. That doesn't mean it doesn't make sense, just that it doesn't resonate with you. That's cool with me. I don't think you should feel that you have to walk on on eggshells and not express yourself when you don't like something. For me I would say that it comes down to how it's expressed or presented and whether it's entertaining and enjoyable or not.
Daryl
2021-11-11 19:59:50 +0000 UTCThe show never really went into what changed with the Doctor/Clara relationship as a result of here becoming an essential part of his entire life. She wasn't just spread across his time stream because she was there to repeatedly save his life... I guess. The Great Intelligence was effectively killing the Doctor at multiple times throughout his life, which is paradoxical, but whatever, we all know what show we are watching. Clara stopped The Great Intelligence while also popping up elsewhere (like in The Asylum of the Daleks).
Funny That
2021-11-11 19:50:09 +0000 UTCHell yeah! I love this episode way too much :D
Liam
2021-11-11 19:49:24 +0000 UTCMoffat likes to makes his characters the most important people to have ever been on the show. For example, he made it that without Amy, Doctor Who couldn't continue because only Amy could bring the Doctor back. River Song can speak on behalf of the universe, and supposedly *nobody* loves the Doctor more than her. And Clara's big, sad eyes stopped the genocide of the Time Lords. I mean, sure, there was that bit with Rose *technically* ending the Time War, but it was only on a technicality because some of the Daleks from the war had fled and hid themselves away. Plus, it wasn't just Rose. In fact, most of the power came from the TARDIS. Unlike with Amy, where it was solely her memory that brought the Doctor back into existence. And with Donna, the Doctor calling her the most important woman in the whole wide universe was actually just him being emotional, because all Donna did in the grand scheme of things was help save people and convince the Doctor to save one family from Pompei. She wasn't *literally* the most important person in the universe. It can be a bit much, I agree.
Scribbles
2021-11-11 19:44:53 +0000 UTCKatrina's little knowing nod to the camera when the doctor says "This is the moment we've all been waiting for"...! God I love these reactions.
Arek Schneyer
2021-11-11 19:42:10 +0000 UTCTo answer Paula's question. After the war is over people are going to do what they always had to do. "Sit down and talk".
Bob Hughes
2021-11-11 19:33:31 +0000 UTCSpeech time!
Henry from CO
2021-11-11 19:31:48 +0000 UTC12th Doctor/Clara relationship is like father/daughter, it’s not romantic or best-friends, she went into his time-stream, she talked 11th out off pressing the button, she convinced the timelords on Trenzalore to gift him another regeneration cycle and she’s been with 12 since the beginning, so he has a ‘duty of care’ - don’t get me wrong I do think Moffat was forcing a stronger bond in season 9 for a more emotional ending 🤷🏻♂️ but Katrina tell me, did Chibnall create any bond between 13 and Yaz? Or even graham and Ryan,
Wajid-Ibrar Haq
2021-11-11 19:27:42 +0000 UTCThe whole rant about Clara "being special" makes no sense. She's no more special than any other companion. She's just *his* companion, the current one, so she's obviously most important right now. Same with 11 and Amy or 10 and Rose: the first face this face saw. Every companion (maybe apart from Martha) was essential to literally preserving the universe. Rose as Bad Wolf, Donna as Doctor Donna or in the episode when changing her past caused stars to disappear, Amy rebuilding the universe from her memories. Now it's Clara' time and Doctor is simply focused on her. And yes, she is the one who talked him off of destroying Gallifrey. The whole concept of it not being destroyed but trapped was introduced in the 50 year special. And Clara was the one who stopped 11th from pressing the button. So yes, she's the one that stopped him, there's no exaggeration here. And no, she's still the Impossible Girl. The fact that the Doctor saved her from his timestream afterwards doesn't erase the fact that she is embedded in his whole history. There's where Victorian Clara comes from.
Jan Popieluch
2021-11-11 19:24:17 +0000 UTCFavorite Doctor speech!
Jon
2021-11-11 19:01:44 +0000 UTCOoooooh I'm so excited.
Arek Schneyer
2021-11-11 18:14:56 +0000 UTCTotally one of Peters best speeches!
Chaos Surveyor
2021-11-11 18:07:31 +0000 UTCLooking forward to watching this when I get home.
Chaos Surveyor
2021-11-11 18:07:09 +0000 UTC
