The Host, Gallifrey Gals Get Warped! S4Ep23
Added 2021-10-19 17:00:04 +0000 UTCLove can sometimes be a little parasitic...
https://vimeo.com/635470561/916a285512
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PAULA DEMING
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KATRINA ALYSHA
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Comments
I am a Doctor Who fan as well as Trek, and NEVER made that connection! I'm mad at myself that I never saw it, shame om me! That said, the comparison makes so much sense!
Carrie Schwent
2024-11-30 20:31:35 +0000 UTCI do no see it mentioned but if it was, I apologize but Gates Mcfadden did disagree with the ending of the episode and originally wanted Beverly to accept the new host. Go Gates!! but the staff was like, then how do we explain where Odan is in the future episodes?
Terry Mitchell
2023-10-20 08:40:40 +0000 UTCSuper late, but I think it's interesting that nobody recognized Odan gaslighting Beverly. When she asked why he didn't tell her, his response was to ask why she didn't tell him that she was a single species. As an ambassador, he'd be very well aware that his species is unique in their host/symbiote relationship. Most, if not every other species they've encountered is a single entity. That deflection is classic gaslighting and it's treated as wisdom instead. He was wrong and should have been open about who and what he was.
DC
2023-05-11 00:04:34 +0000 UTCYeah, DS9 starts somewhere between TNG season 5 episode 15, and season 6 episode 16. I have done this calculation before :). I won't say how I know here to avoid spoilers, but discord is a wonderful tool. This episode... Its not one I hate like I hate some episodes from season 1 or at various other places. Its just not an episode I'd ever sit down to watch. I usually skip it when I'm doing a watch-through of the show. I've never been quite sure why, but the whole episode makes me uncomfortable.
Arek Schneyer
2021-10-21 23:32:05 +0000 UTCI don't know if it's ever explicitlu explained on screen, but I believe the reason that transport would kill the symbiont is that it would detect it as a parasite and try to remove it, same as it would any other foreign oragasm. If they know it's there, they can program around this.
Bluefox
2021-10-21 17:49:20 +0000 UTCThe main reason people see it as potentially homophobic is the comment about humans not being able to take it, rather than just her. But I say that, if you read into that statement that Beverly couldn't handle Odan being a woman, then you can also read into her saying more that some humans are not pansexual. She's talking about herself primarily.
Bluefox
2021-10-21 17:37:41 +0000 UTCInteresting to apply 21st century sexual ethics to a 20th century show set in the 24th century. I'm really confused about which set of ethics to apply here!!
Firefly24601
2021-10-20 22:59:13 +0000 UTCIf Beverly and the new host had shared a final, sad romantic farewell kiss to close this episode as it began, it most likely would be better received. That said, the same result could have been achieved by having the new host be a teenage boy instead of a woman.
Mark Chrisco
2021-10-20 15:26:02 +0000 UTCIt seems that Paula is a bit cool on the idea. I think Kat would enjoy it a lot more.
Bruce Bromley
2021-10-20 08:54:31 +0000 UTCEvidently, the reason they didn't use the original design for the Trill on Terry Farrell is that they didn't want to cover her face with prosthetics because they felt she was too beautiful to cover up.
Chrissonator
2021-10-20 03:53:32 +0000 UTCI’m watching my favourite episodes again right now, love it.
Brett Whittaker
2021-10-20 01:17:26 +0000 UTCI do hope they react to DS9, was so underrated
DarkAshtar
2021-10-20 01:13:32 +0000 UTCyeah DS9 does a lot to deepen the Trill.
DarkAshtar
2021-10-20 01:08:22 +0000 UTCGood question on Riker's consent. Here's another: does he retain any memories of what happened while joined with Odan?
John
2021-10-20 00:43:00 +0000 UTCThat isn't necessariily a prejudice. The gender you're attracted to is an innate, natural thing. Would we say the same thing about gays or lesbians, that in the future they should able to overlook their same-sex attractions and be open to hetero relationships?
Raja
2021-10-19 23:59:49 +0000 UTCThe debate over homophobia aside, I actually found it to be a stretch that she would even become involved with Riker as the host. To me, the mind and body aren't really the separate and distinct entities that they made the Trill out to be in this pre-DS9 iteration. You can't simply swap your brain into different bodies and essentially be the same person. The body shapes the mind and vice versa. You wouldn't see and feel the same way, and neither would others in reaction to you. Although Crusher would certainly feel a familiarity and even an affinity to Riker/Odan, I really can't see how she'd be attracted to him the way she was with Odan/Odan.
Raja
2021-10-19 23:52:39 +0000 UTCExactly, it must be recognized that a part of a relationship is related to appearance and the change from a male to female body does affect if the person is attracted to the other or not. it’s not as if people only fall in love with personalities, it’s the combination of the personality and the appearance of the person that creates the attraction, so it is very reasonable for crusher to no longer have the same feelings for odan.
Hampus Theander
2021-10-19 23:16:50 +0000 UTCI’m glad this wasn’t the final look and feel of the Trill. Also the other Trill we fans know are far more blended personalities not controlled by the host.
Brett Whittaker
2021-10-19 23:13:33 +0000 UTCYeah, they don't really do much with the ethics of the situation here. I know that later on, the Trill are shown to be a melding of the host and the symbiont, but as presented in this episode, the symbiont seems to be almost entirely in control. Did they not have any ethical considerations about this sentient being that they were implanting the parasite into, who essentially was going to cease to be after the operation?
R. Chang
2021-10-19 22:13:47 +0000 UTCSo, something to consider is that, every time a new host is needed, it means that old host has died. For Beverly to have this relationship, she could possibly have to mourn each host as they die... because as much as we all like to say the value of a person is on the inside, we can't really ignore the outside either. The outside is how we are initially presented to the world. It makes a statement, it says something about who we are and informs how others perceive us. There is importance there. So for a Trill to be required to change hosts because that host died, mean that a part of them, the exterior part, DID die. IS lost. The interior lives on and is familiar and even comforting, but even so the exterior is new, with new presentations and new perceptions, meaning the WHOLE of the person has changed because of this new part. Some may be able to see past that exterior, some may not. I also kinda get Beverly at the end here too. There was girl in one grade below me in Jr.High and Highschool I'd known since we were kids. We went to daycare together. Well, the teen hormones kicked in one day and suddenly she was "hot" and I was crushin' on her. Never pursued it. We never kept in touch. Ten years later I look her up and she's going by the male version of her name and looks like a man. I'm happy for them of course, but at the same time, I feel awkward about it. That crush I had was on a female. When I think about that, it's them as a female. But that's not who they are. Or were. So now I sit with this old nostalgia for a person that doesn't exist and it I don't think it translates to the person that is. Isn't that strange? Whenever I think about this part of my life, I'm fascinated by the interplay of my feelings, their person, my perception of them and their perception of themselves, even though we haven't talked in over ten years. I don't have ANY answers for it, but it is an interesting thought experiment at least. I hope they're at least happy in life and doing well. And glad I never had to put them through my uncertainty about who they were.
Nolan
2021-10-19 21:30:34 +0000 UTCThe thing with Crusher having sex with Riker while he is being controlled by an alien feels very iffy to me. How about if the roles were reversed? Like if Riker had fallen in love with a woman carrying the symbiote. Then when the accident happens the symbiote is put in Dr. Crusher's body instead and Riker has sex with her without her consent. At no point in the episode is it made clear that the host knows what is happening to his body while the symbiote is in control.
Michael B.
2021-10-19 21:25:41 +0000 UTC… I mean, I wouldn’t have minded if Beverly tried making out with the new host just to give it a try.
Joe Concepts
2021-10-19 21:22:47 +0000 UTCWhen I first saw this as a teenager I think I kind of dismissed it as a “girl episode.” I appreciate it more than that now, but still think it’s middle of the road. Once you already know Odan’s secret there’s not much for a rewatch. I think it maybe needed some more danger. Aside from the shuttle bit and people talking about war, he didn’t feel like stakes were high enough to justify everyone being so willing to sacrifice themselves.
Joe Concepts
2021-10-19 21:16:20 +0000 UTCThis is supposed to be the future when humans have supposedly evolved and left behind 20th century prejudices. From a point 30 years after the episode was made it feels depressing that centuries from now these issues will still exist. It's very un-Star Trek. I think if Dr. Crusher was really in love with Odan she'd be able to overlook minor details like switching sexes.
Bob Hughes
2021-10-19 21:10:37 +0000 UTCAnd at 10AM today, in what was surely a media circus, the reaction went LIVE. :)
Firefly24601
2021-10-19 20:36:18 +0000 UTCI don't see the ending as homophobic?? If Crusher is hetrosexual and doesn't want to continue the relationship with Odan in a female presenting body, that is perfectly fine, nothing wrong with that.
Daniel French
2021-10-19 19:21:00 +0000 UTCYes, I agree with this. For me, the ending is not, taken in isolation, homophobic, but it is slightly uncomfortable in the context of there not being a huge number of other times TNG goes near exploring non-heterosexual relationships. But certainly not something the episode deserves condemnation for.
JimmyPea
2021-10-19 19:20:57 +0000 UTCI don't think that the ending is homophobic. Being straight isn't a choice any more than being homosexual is. If the Crusher character is straight, I don't think it is unreasonable for her to not want to be in a relationship with a female-presenting person. That said, I can understand that if the only presentation of same-sex relationships is a rejection of them, that doesn't feel good. If this story happened on a show where there were lots of other same sex relationships I don't think it would have triggered that reaction.
R. Chang
2021-10-19 18:53:57 +0000 UTCThat "homophobic" thing is definitely a stretch. Are we supposed to think people in the future are all bisexual? She likes men, not women. I'm fairly progressive and open minded, but I'm not switching to men any time soon.
Joe Concepts
2021-10-19 18:21:54 +0000 UTCI do think the last two minutes could have been reconfigured for greater impact by giving the new host a bit of charm and focusing a bit more on the regret both Odan and Beverly feel then leaving open the idea their parting was due to the symbiant was now inhabiting a female host.
Mark Chrisco
2021-10-19 18:13:22 +0000 UTCMy own head cannon is that Odan was from a subspecies of Trill that looked different from the later iterations and couldn't use transporters.
Raja
2021-10-19 18:00:43 +0000 UTCHomophobic?, people really do reach for anything.
Andrew Hogan
2021-10-19 17:58:24 +0000 UTCI know this episode was the intro to the Trill but to me it seemed like the humanoid hosts were completely dominated by the symbiant. Like they only existed to serve as hosts. That's how it came across anyway. Spoilers below: I know they made some welcome changes, thank Zod. They made host and symbiont more of a blended consciousness and personality along with the physical appearance changes. I'm also glad they got rid of the "can't use transporters" thing. It is established that the Trill have been a member of the UFP, or at least associated with them, for a long time as Dax from DS9 said she met Dr. McCoy when he was a med student. You'd figure the UFP would find a way to accommodate them.
Henchman Twenty1
2021-10-19 17:45:47 +0000 UTCTo paraphrase a character from a Trek film that The Gals haven't watched on the channel, "Gates is not only pregnant, she is *very* pregnant."
Ken Quick
2021-10-19 17:10:46 +0000 UTC
