Time Lord - Death in Heaven, Gallifrey Gals Get Wibbly Wobbly! S8Ep12

Oooo boy if she hates character inconsistency then she is going to HATE season 11 and 12

BiPolar HoneyBear

2022-02-03 15:43:05 +0000 UTC

If they didn't do the stupid moment with Clara under the bed and left some mystery about the creatures then yes it would have been one of the best for me too but man for me they droped the ball so hard in the last third of that episode

BiPolar HoneyBear

2022-02-03 15:42:21 +0000 UTC

Kill the Moon

Martyn Hill

2021-12-15 21:30:23 +0000 UTC

We'll have to respectively disagree with your opinion on the Jodie era. It isn't all bad writing. There are some clunkers in there, but to damn the entire era, well i'm sorry but i can't agree.

mark saunders

2021-08-22 16:50:38 +0000 UTC

He didn't even need to overcome the conditioning since, for Missy's cybermen, conditioning was, for some reason, optional.

tal goren

2021-08-22 11:33:11 +0000 UTC

I must say, I was a little surprised at Paula’s emotional response to the Brigadier saving Kate at the Doctor saluting him, considering she doesn’t even know who he is/was as yet. Not sure if that may have been because she was so emotionally stretched by that point, or what, but it is a moment that tugs at my heart strings as well. I know some people don’t like that scene, feeling it was disrespectful of the Brig and Nicholas Courtney, but to me it actually makes sense, and was set up earlier in the episode when Kate asked the Doctor how long Missy might have been collecting the dead. You can see in her expression then that she’s thinking of her dad, and what that might mean for him. And I also think it is natural that the Brigadier, knowing his character and having fought and defeated Cybermen before, as well as a host of other baddies, would overcome the Cyber-conditioning to save his daughter. I do look forward to the Gals discovering the Brigadier in some Classic Who stories in the near future 😀.

Lloyd B

2021-08-22 05:10:12 +0000 UTC

Aside from everything else in Season 8, it did give us Listen, a truly beautiful episode, one I still consider as one of the best

Sufyaan Kazi

2021-08-21 20:43:55 +0000 UTC

wow. I really forgot how horrible season 8 was. from my first watch, I mostly remember thinking it was somewhat boring, but an improvement over season 7, which I felt was half baked. now, on the other hand, I basically had to force myself into rewatching it with you, while your season 7 reaction were just fun to watch.

tal goren

2021-08-21 17:21:28 +0000 UTC

There is a difference between the bracelet being use as a teleport or as a an interface with the nethersphere, and between it being used to turn digital copies of minds into actual, flesh and blood, people. that twist really came form nowhere

tal goren

2021-08-21 17:09:06 +0000 UTC

i feel like i was very emotional when i made my earlier comments i don’t take them back but i didn’t mean them in a rude or malicious way at all i do love y’all and your reactions great content really

Kenzi

2021-08-21 14:20:37 +0000 UTC

I def agree with the Danny/Clara parts and I personally believe that they were forced and we had to believe in this epic romance that just wasn't there. I think that while Clara did love Danny the emotions she felt after he died were mostly guilt. I also think that the character of Orson Pink had Clara believe that she had to be with Danny. Either way, their relationship lacked a good foundation and imo, they also lacked chemistry. With that said, my comment was mostly about the phone call between Clara and the Doctor in which the Doctor tells her that if she helps Danny with turning off his emotions - him turning into a full cybermen would mean that he could hurt her and Clara didn't care about that. Clara has this huge guilt and this huge "i have to be with Danny" emotion that she didn't care if Danny hurt or killed her. Calling Clara selfish and self centered during the phone call just doesn't sit right with me. No matter how undeveloped or forced the relationship between Danny and Clara was, to hear someone say that Clara was selfish and self centered when she pretty much admitted that she didn't care if Danny hurt or killed her, is a bit rough. Like the Doctot tells her that he's not gonna help her commit -, and he also confirms to the viewers then what Clara is actually doing and Clara herself confirms it by snapping at the Doctor, and the reaction is 'oh wow she's so selfish and only cares about herself'.

sara

2021-08-21 11:31:57 +0000 UTC

Ok, apologies, didn't hear that part in Paula's reaction, it seemed minor so didn't think it was a spoiler, will do better 😔 Sorry Henry and all

Sufyaan Kazi

2021-08-20 20:33:12 +0000 UTC

Changing the subject, I like to see the next Regeneration of KATRINA'S hair styles. Keep em coming

Brian Gilliver

2021-08-20 20:16:08 +0000 UTC

Paula was left under the impression that Clara was not coming back. Nobody suggested you spoiled "everything" but you did spoil that. This is a reaction channel, and reactions work best when the reactor does not know things that are going to happen... Unfortunately, because of this, Paula has to stay away from comments and not interact I appreciated your other comments here, I understand mistakes happen, it is just a shame you were not willing to edit out the spoiler here though

Malcolm Wolf

2021-08-20 19:30:58 +0000 UTC

It's been a while since I watched all of season 8. Usually I just watch a single episode for a specific moment. I'd forgotten how much I was kinda 'meh' about the whole thing. I find that in general, I get more tolerant of bad writing and acting in a scene or show over time. I am a very strong believer in the 'why not enjoy it?' philosophy, and I am an expert at suspending my disbelief for a number of shows that don't do their jobs of setting up things very well. I've mentioned a couple times, I think, that season 9 is my favorite season. I love a lot that goes on in there, but I find some parts of it (not going to mention which ones) very heavy-handed. Idk. I feel like later season episodes grab me more, but also make more mistakes? season 4 was amazing, and always will be though, so maybe that theory falls apart.

Arek Schneyer

2021-08-20 19:27:49 +0000 UTC

It was sent to us! I believe it was sent through red bubble :) - Kat

Time Lord

2021-08-20 16:06:27 +0000 UTC

I feel you, Paula. The Clara/Danny stuff didn't come together for me either. Someone else here on Patreon kindly explained to me how we were supposed to know that Clara and Danny had actually been together for months, and I understood where that person was coming from. Unfortunately, we weren't shown that relationship. We got little glimpses here and there of Clara and Danny together which led me to think that they were still in the casual dating phase, not that Danny was the great love of Clara's life. I think we would have needed another season for the Clara and Danny thing to be properly fleshed out. And that's why the final episode of series 8 feels largely unearned and why Clara's full-on betrayal of the Doctor in the previous episode feels so out of character for her given what we've SEEN of her relationship with Danny. That said, there were things I really enjoyed about this one. Missy is utterly fantastic. I agree that it's sad that she killed Osgood, but it was completely in character for her to do so. My one problem with that scene was that there's no way she should have been able to get to Osgood without the guards at least TRYING to stop her, but that's a different matter. Back to the good stuff... I also liked the fact that the Master in this new incarnation is apparently more sentimental than what we've seen before. She went to all the trouble of crafting this grand scheme because she wants her friend back. She's still very much an evil character, but I enjoyed that sympathetic twist. Even though things didn't come together the way they should have, the thing about Clara being so controlling does make sense considering that Missy handpicked her to be at the Doctor's side. I also liked the part near the end when we discover that Kate's father in cyberman form saved his daughter. That was really nice, especially considering the unhappy prospect of having the death of a second well-liked character in the same episode.

Jeff Seely

2021-08-20 15:41:51 +0000 UTC

And so endeth one of the most divisive seasons of DW, and one that i really enjoy for the most part. Does all the character arcs work 100%? No, but i think that's true for most seasons. I certainly don't like everything they did with Clara, but i liked her a LOT more in S8 than S7 where she almost only felt plucky and pretty. In S8 she got some stuff to dig into. Not all of it worked (hello Kill The Moon) but she at least got some personality. I mostly buy the Clara-Danny love story. I think a reason many didn't is a failure to "show - don't tell". Surely, there can be no doubt that there is an attraction between them, but the romance appears to mostly happen off screen. And about what the audience is supposed to feel in the graveyard scene between Danny and The Doctor... Isn't it possible to feel for both sides? I think we are supposed to think that both Danny and The Doctor have a point. Because they do. Everything is not black and white, and i think DW is allowed some nuance. But like i said, not everything worked and the finale is a bit underwhelming. What i DO think is that all the themes of the season come together really well in this final episode. And that is quite unusual for DW. It's usually plot threads that gets resolution. Here, it's much more.

Opti_Frog

2021-08-20 13:04:31 +0000 UTC

Yes you're right, I've completely spoilered everything NOT

Sufyaan Kazi

2021-08-20 12:50:18 +0000 UTC

spoilers dear, at this moment paula knows nothing of clara's future.

Henry from CO

2021-08-20 12:28:42 +0000 UTC

I agree with all the above, although we aren't saying all this to have a go, we just can't help how we feel in the same way you can't help how you feel about Clara. Also, maybe when Paula has strong reactions to an episode like Dark Water, maybe it would be better to not go straight into the next one in the same sitting to allow her to process her thoughts and feelings properly, but I know this might be easier said than done as you probably have schedules you follow in terms recording the reactions, just a thought though.

Ben

2021-08-20 10:20:18 +0000 UTC

I agree with you guys on season 8, but still love clara's companion style. Im not a fan of season 8 i didnt even continue to season 9 for about a year after it aired(which i regretted)

Amanda Logsdon

2021-08-20 09:43:06 +0000 UTC

My! This one has certainly generated quite a few comments!😊 probably not a great deal I can add - some of which I agree with and others less so. However, I broadly agree with Paula’s take on the finale, in that it contains some of the best elements of the series and some of the worst. Missy and the Doctor are certainly the best aspects of this story, and Michelle Gomez simply shines throughout. Her chemistry with Capaldi, and her comic timing, combined with a real sense of threat and danger from her (so unpredictable - “bananas” - as demonstrated by her killing the beloved Osgood) are a joy to watch. Incidentally, her little rendition of “Hey Missy, you so fine” while chained up was ad-libbed and just too good to leave out. Danny’s narky words to the Doctor I find quite annoying and petulant. And I find the whole “promise of a soldier” speech rather tiresome. But I don’t hate him for it. I still feel, though, that Clara is behaving true to form for her character. She’s a control freak who’s lost control - she feels responsible for Danny’s state and can’t fix it, so she lashes out at the Doctor. I certainly don’t hate her for that. Also, keep in mind that it was Missy who got them together - “the control freak and the man who can never be controlled” - and clearly she did that because she knew they would both be irresistible to one another and be potentially toxic and dangerous for the other. Missy has in a sense manipulated and engineered this whole situation to cause as much chaos as possible to try to force the Doctor into accepting her. There is a theory that Missy in fact orchestrated Danny’s death as well, maybe even driving the van that hit him, in order to tip Clara over the edge. I know that quite a few people dismiss Clara as just a plot device, as Paula said. But to that I would say that every character in a work of fiction is a plot device - they have to be in order for the plot to move forward. It’s more a matter of how well that plot device/character is implemented in the story, either through the script, editing or performance. I do however agree there were some clunky choices made in the story presentation, which are what have triggered Paula and others. I still like Clara as a character, though, and certainly Jenna as an actor. As I said all along, the whole of series 8 is about the lies people tell one another and themselves, and it even ended on lies. But as Santa said -“It can’t end like this” - so we’ll see what Christmas has to offer 😀.

Lloyd B

2021-08-20 06:22:18 +0000 UTC

some of the other items you mentioned were actually set up, but I think you were tuning it out when you were rolling your eyes so hard over Clara threatening to leave the Doctor over Cyber-Danny. We clearly see Missi use the bracelet as a teleport, and then inside the nethersphere afterward.

Rex Witzel

2021-08-20 03:43:21 +0000 UTC

To Paula's confusion as to why the Doctor doesn't just write off Clara. She was born to save the Doctor. Something she's done multiple times now. Jumping in his time stream when he said it would kill her, getting "them" to change the outcome of the war by saving Gallifrey instead of destroying it, telling the time lords to give him more regenerations (although, yeah not needed, Timeless Child and everything). How could he turn her away over her betrayal? They do have a toxic attachment but the connection is understandable in my opinion.

Alisa Loudner

2021-08-20 03:36:15 +0000 UTC

Rose also nearly destroyed all of reality TWICE (saving her dad back in 'Father's Day' and then punching holes through the dimensions in the S4 finale, causing the collapses of the stars). Personally that feels WAAAY more selfish to me than anything that Clara's done, but YMMV.

Nicole Mazza

2021-08-20 01:53:53 +0000 UTC

I agree that the relationship didn't stick the landing. I just don't get why Clara is completely written off by Paula and Kat. During her lowest moment Clara acted out a betrayal that turned out be an illusion controlled by the Doctor... I just don't think the grief depicted is 'selfish'. Its irrational sure but I can empathise with that. I will say that Paula and Kat are making me question my feelings though. Are her actions unforgivable?? She didn't kill anyone (Amy), or destroy time (River) or run off with a clone of the Doctor (Rose). Those actions seem pretty selfish to me...

George Baxter

2021-08-20 00:57:54 +0000 UTC

It feels like towards the end of that episode that Clara could have solved world hunger and that would have gotten an eye roll in response. While I don't agree with most of Paula's opinion on Clara, primarily because I think certain things have been ignored and assumed, I do love the reactions and hope you will reserve final judgment for later.

Splashdown

2021-08-20 00:02:44 +0000 UTC

The Danny Clara arc feels like an idea they started, mostly ignored, then tried to shoehorn in at the last minute. I can see how Danny feels that way if his only filters to see the Doctor through is Clara and his military history, but like Paula says, they didn't earn it. As for Clara, I think she is supposed to be a bad companion for the Doctor because Missy(so good) picked her out for him, but we're supposed to like her at the same time, and the writing just doesn't do it. But that's my theory; Clara was supposed to be a bad companion/unhealthy relationship for the Doctor, but it shows up so infrequently that when they try to use it to drive the plot it's just confusing.

Sythurizm

2021-08-19 23:26:40 +0000 UTC

100 million percent agree with you Paula. The Danny Clara relationship was too forced and didn't deserve the payoff they were hoping for.

Andy Pandy

2021-08-19 23:26:11 +0000 UTC

"I don't care either way. It is the constant ranting over every line she says and the insane nit picking that makes what was once a fun experience no longer so" Couldn't say it better myself! I love this show. Some parts I like more, some less but the show as a whole I absolutely love. And seeing people rolling their eyes and literally hating on every line being said is just not an enjoyable experience. There is a big difference between not liking something and being toxic. And this reaction was dangerously close to the latter.

Jan Popieluch

2021-08-19 23:21:07 +0000 UTC

I wrote a reply but for some reason it didn't post. But basically, god forbid if Clara's gran had passed away and turned into a Cyberman, I would have completely believed her reaction (and I think Kat & Paula would have too). It wouldn't have been selfish, it would be acceptable. In far far fewer scenes on screen, she demonstrated to us a greater emotional connection. Danny didn't, the way it accelerated from relationship to really really really strong feelings just seemed weird and jarred any emotional effect of either Clara trying to control the Doctor and of Danny being able to fight the cyber inhibitor. It just seemed forced and spoilt a two parter that otherwise had some really really good parts.

Sufyaan Kazi

2021-08-19 23:20:10 +0000 UTC

Slightly random, but where did Katrina get that shirt? My gf needs some Whovian gear.

Jeff Magaw

2021-08-19 23:16:08 +0000 UTC

TBH sometimes I don't think they are watching the same show. Their reactions are a little off. In no way in any episode has Clara been selfish. In fact she has always been the opposite. She has been the least selfish companion in the nuwho series. If anything the most selfish companion has always been rose.

Scott Archibald

2021-08-19 22:48:55 +0000 UTC

While I didn't have the same reaction as Paula to series 8 it is my least favourite out of new Who. It took me a while to get this Doctor but there was so much inconsistency with both the Doctor and Clara with what had come before that I struggled. That said I really like the whole scene from the last episode with the dream sequence and the Doctor forgiving Clara but then she does the same thing in this episode and it just doesn't work and lessens the impact of that earlier scene.

Jade Ellis

2021-08-19 22:26:00 +0000 UTC

Yeah they yell over every line Clara and Danny say then call them self centred, it is hard to watch and I don't even like Danny. Yet they sympathise with Missy a legit war criminal lmao.

Valkyrie

2021-08-19 21:53:06 +0000 UTC

Love and Monsters

Amy Chlebus

2021-08-19 21:44:36 +0000 UTC

Just wanted to add this now that I've thought things through a bit more and I'm honestly a bit shocked that the reaction of Clara pretty much telling the Doctor that she was okay with getting hurt (possibly more than hurt) once Danny became a full cyberman, was that she was being selfish and self centered. The Doctor told her that turning Danny's pain/emotions off would mean that he could hurt her, and Clara didn't care about that. So to hear her being called selfish and self centered when just seconds ago we got all of that confirmed is a bit insensitive imo. I'm 100% agreeing that we all have different reactions and opinions and these first raw reactions were yours however, it just doesn't sit right with me. It's clear that what happened in the first part during the dream state really made you turn on Clara and that's fine. However, her not caring about the fact that Danny as a cyberman could possibly hurt her and then being called self centered because she wasn't nice on the phone call with the Doctor just is a bit too much for me.

sara

2021-08-19 21:36:44 +0000 UTC

I would normally write a giant rant about this two-parter, but...at this point, Moffat has just exhausted me. I hate it, I hate Missy, I hate Danny, I'm mad at what Moffat was doing to Clara (though she sort of gets better soon, so I guess I can just chalk it up to Danny and Clara bringing out the worst in each other), and I'm just...exhausted. Though, what IS annoying me about these reactions is that they're acting like this is the first time Moffat has pulled this garbage. This is AT LEAST the THIRD time he's done this "love conquers all" crap, no matter how unrealistic it is. There's that android guy that the Daleks made, who managed to stop a friggin' BOMB from going off through love. (And it was a time bomb! Apparently in Moffat's world, timers can be turned off with love.) Then there was Craig who managed to stop cyber conversion through love. It never makes sense and it's always ridiculous.

Scribbles

2021-08-19 21:32:07 +0000 UTC

To think, Moffat also wrote the show 'Coupling' before this 🤣 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coupling_(UK_TV_series)

Sufyaan Kazi

2021-08-19 21:31:21 +0000 UTC

I went into this episode super sad, for some reason I had thought Michelle Gomez had passed about a year ago, good news is she's still alive and kicking. I love the Missy character. As to Paula as far as Clara goes, give her time her story is still being told. (Personally, I didn't like her she grew on me over time.) Peter Capaldi's run is amazing, next season has my favorite episode of his. Just saying the best is yet to come.

DarkAshtar

2021-08-19 21:28:16 +0000 UTC

I share Paula's sentiments about absolute boredom followed by unstoppable crying. Most of this episode is risible, imo - not just the Clara stuff;but the 'resurrected from the dead' Cybermen; the fact that they've developed jet-propelled flying boots; Missy's garbled plan;somehow being able to bring someone over from the after-life because of something the're wearing,etc etc. But then Moffat adds the Brig's goodbye; Danny sending through the little boy; The Doctor and Clara lying to each other,thinking the're doing whats best,but not knowing the truth - and I'm almost willing to forgive all that wayward stuff. Great reaction,though. I really enjoy (even if it's somewhat exhausting at times!) watching reactors truthfully hate on something,rather than just saying "OMG, that was the best episode evahhh!"

Ian Smith

2021-08-19 21:17:14 +0000 UTC

In the forest of the night ....

Sufyaan Kazi

2021-08-19 21:12:55 +0000 UTC

James Cordens character (and acting) had a believable love, I think that's the point.

Sufyaan Kazi

2021-08-19 21:12:22 +0000 UTC

I always enjoyed Twelve in just about everything he did. Can't say the same about Moffat, and yet it is more hit than miss for me overall with his work. I still think "Eleventh Hour" is the best opening WHO episode, well, ever.

Henry from CO

2021-08-19 21:10:59 +0000 UTC

I totally get why Paula is pissed, but I don't want to you to take this the wrong way, but she was reminding me of the way Clara acted in some ways!! I still loved your reaction though and a more positive note, Missy is brilliant and Michelle G's performance with P Cap is brilliant! I do think Paula will like the next episode!! I

Daniel French

2021-08-19 21:09:55 +0000 UTC

So firstly, there is no reason why I would expect anyone watching Doctor Who to enjoy every single episode, if they did they aren't really reacting they're just entertaining us with an act, so kudos to you both and please continue to keep it real. All the cheesy parts in this episode were so so cheesy and full of exposition. The "love saves the day" trope is so wrong in this instance, Moffat didn't resort to that in other stories like the girl in the fireplace or Amy and Rory. But where you both cried, like the way the Doctor angrily reacted on realising Missy lied about Gallifrey, or how 12 lied to Clara, like how Kate was saved by her dad, the way you both enjoyed the great interaction with 12 & Missy (oh lord they are brill together), that's the good stuff. Looking forward to your reactions next season. for me the whole problem for me was Danny this season. Sadly I always thought he was poorly acted and written and it didn't help at all that he also was written to criticise the Doctor so so strongly, our hero for no good reason at all, and Jenna was dragged down by that story, it was very clunkily done indeed. Even just one episode where Danny and Clara went on holiday, or an adventure (and I don't mean a weird adventure in a forest) and had actually developed a visible believable bond.

Sufyaan Kazi

2021-08-19 21:07:57 +0000 UTC

the following year lmao, I hated almost every character in season 13 but even I didn't exert this much energy hating a character.

Valkyrie

2021-08-19 20:43:20 +0000 UTC

Consistency, right?

Brandon Scott

2021-08-19 20:41:53 +0000 UTC

Thanks for replying Kat and everyone else, I genuinely have been following you since the Fan Theory days so I am not going to jump ship because you don't like Clara. Clara isn't even close to my favourite character but with how much I have been commenting about her you would think I am a stan lmao. To me there is a difference between disliking a character and making a joke about it and disliking a character and acting as though they literally murdered your entire family. I used the word exhausting because that is what it feels like watching, and I am not saying that to be mean or to get you to love Clara. I don't care either way. It is the constant ranting over every line she says and the insane nit picking that makes what was once a fun experience no longer so. If you want to follow your narrative that the doctor is this perfect being that must never be insulted that is up to you, I just feel you are missing out on a vast amount of complexity and character work under that shallow viewing experience. I really love to watch you guys grow and succeed and as someone who has watched GENUINELY bad writing on who with Jodie's era it is exasperating how much you guys spend exerting energy onto one character. Regardless I will lead with the benefit of the doubt that emotions were high since this was recorded immediately after and considering you both dislike Clara you were feeding off each others energy. Once again I'm not saying this to be a dick, and if you feel I am out of line please let me know but I couldn't sit by and say nothing when a lot of other viewers are expressing my same thoughts.

Valkyrie

2021-08-19 20:38:29 +0000 UTC

Yeah?

Grelk

2021-08-19 20:27:17 +0000 UTC

I probably would have said the 12 is an extension of Moffat. Like 11 was who he wishes he was (romantic hero) and 12 is who he actually is (cranky idiot). Maybe that's a stretch. But they are both from Glasgow... And so is Missy!!

George Baxter

2021-08-19 20:26:16 +0000 UTC

PS. I know you guys hate the 'love conquers all" cheesiness but that is a recurring motif with the Cybermen... Like when James Corden's character escaped because of his 'love for his son'. He literally overcomes the machinery through loving. Its cheesy as hell! Cybermen are always destroyed by the feels!

George Baxter

2021-08-19 20:20:47 +0000 UTC

I just want to say I enjoyed the reaction. Its fair to say that I struggled with Paula's anger but only because I can relate to both sides. I fully agree that Clara was swinging from left to right but I don't think there is a problem here with execution. The themes are well set up. It seems like the big point of contention is whether you think the Doctor is a good man. Clearly Paula and Katrina do. But I think interrogating that within the show is really interesting. I also think the Doctor is a hypocrite, and an idiot! He won't kill people directly with a gun but neverntheless he does kill people. And like the Master shows here the Doctor could change the universe, he could destroy the Daleks but he doesn't think he has the right and people suffer. Its like Doctor 10 said: "I've taken lives. But worse than that I got clever, I manipulate people into taking their own." Ultimately I'm glad you both see the Doctor so positively and passionately stand by that. Clearly you felt a lot in this episode. SO MUCH ANGER!

George Baxter

2021-08-19 20:11:45 +0000 UTC

In my opinion this is one of the worst episodes of Doctor Who except for a few scenes.

Kevin R.

2021-08-19 20:09:29 +0000 UTC

I remain a happy subscriber because of your honest emotional reactions. Of course I would prefer more joy and fewer tears in all our lives, but being angry and explaining why is great "television." I prefer to think that for every viewer you chase away with strongly held opinions, you gain two more who appreciate the passion (for your profession, for the writing, for the show) that inspired those opinions. Keep up the good work.

michael mccafferty

2021-08-19 20:03:53 +0000 UTC

Something tells me Paula is going to be pissed next week, and she's going to be even more pissed the following week.

Amy Chlebus

2021-08-19 20:01:41 +0000 UTC

Jenna Coleman did plan to leave the series on 2 separate occasions before she finally left and then changed her mind and had to be written back in. Scripts were already prepared or in process and had to be altered for her character.That may be part of the problem with her arc.

Mark Ten

2021-08-19 19:58:26 +0000 UTC

Thanks for your honest reactions!

SolarPhantom74

2021-08-19 19:50:29 +0000 UTC

"It's just amazing that this show can make me roll my eyes in absolute boredom, and then 10 minutes later I'm like can't stop ugly crying". Must be talking about the Moffat Era. Sometimes it feels like Clara is just an extension of himself, you love or hate him.

Henry from CO

2021-08-19 19:44:29 +0000 UTC

I completely understand where you’re coming from and really feel like whenever I see either of them respond to a comment like this it turns into a “it’s our opinion” thing when no one is disputing their right to have their opinion. It’s not even the Clara hate that bothers me and, yes just like you, is beginning to make it harder and harder to enjoy these reactions, it’s the seemingly extreme lack of self awareness and the hypocrisy that comes from it. There are so many examples of what I’m saying but I’ll leave you with just the one that is screaming at me right now: there is all of this outrage that anyone would speak ill of the Doctor or that she would treat him so wrong; she selfish, inconsiderate, etc. Yeah, does no one remember Paula literally calling the doctor an egotistical, arrogant, selfish asshole? Because I do. And no, it wasn’t that long ago. In fact it was just last series in “the Snowmen.” Not to mention the outrage over Danny “suddenly” treating the doctor with such disrespect…. What? Did he not say basically the exact same things about the doctor the first time they met in The Caretaker? And hasn’t he maintained that opinion of the Doctor the entire time he’s been on the show? What inconsistency? Idk…these seem like missteps but maybe my media literacy just isn’t as high as Paula’s. (Yes, realized as I was writing it that that last line was a bit snarky….I was going to delete it but then I remember the last half of this reaction and realized that Paula must respect people who are willing to be a bit unlikable if it means giving an honest reaction. Surly they, nor anyone who would defend her right to do so would get upset with me for simply doing the same, right?)

Brandon Scott

2021-08-19 19:41:34 +0000 UTC

but how you reacted with danny was absolute trash absolutely terrible and you totally missed the point f P.S. kat if you say anything to this i just want you to know im just expressing my opinion not to different from what you do. now let me hear it i know this isn't me saying i don't love you guys or your content but cmon

Kenzi

2021-08-19 19:31:31 +0000 UTC

Paula and I have known each other long enough now that we both know a lot about one another. I was absolutely expecting this reaction because I know certain things that upset her when it comes to different styles of writing and storytelling. So yes, I was excited to not feel alone in how I felt when I first watched this as well. - Kat

Time Lord

2021-08-19 19:30:36 +0000 UTC

I might update this comment once I've got my emotions handled because well the end scene between Clara/12 always gets me, but I do understand that this reaction is after watching the episodes back to back.However I don't understand if it's understod that the TARDIS/volcano part was just a dream? Or a fake scenario. Clara didn't actually do it and if Clara actually pulled something like this it wouldn't really have done anything. I don't think that trowing away all the keys will just end things. Anyways, I do feel like kind of meh about the total dismiss of Clara's feelings and everything she's done for the Doctor and how much she loves him, just because she had one moment where she let her grief take over. I mean, Clara died for the Doctor and is the reason why he's still being able to regenerate to 12. I also don’t think that the doctor is perfect and he’s done some messed up things and said some shitty things, so I don’t know for me while toxic at times - 12 and Clara are the perfect pair and I guess that’s why Missy picked her for the Doctor. With that said, I do really enjoy your reactions even if I don’t always agree with them but that’s the point of reactions and everyone having their own opinions. Lol I’m not the biggest fan of Moffat, or some companions, and I don't like S8 as a whole and I’m def not a fan of Clara and Danny BUT I do love me some Missy (and 12/Clara). And between us my least favorite episodes were kill the moon and the episode before that (when Danny meets the Doctor and vice versa), they totally ruined Clara for me for a few hours.lol I do think that the issue with Danny and Clara was them trying to move away from the whole romance plot that was there between Clara/11, and they tried to make Danny and Clara like Rory and Amy but they failed big times. Rory and Amy are A+++++. But yes, gonna try to write a better comment and if I don’t then 1. Love all the reactions. 2. Can’t wait to see future reactions. 3. Hope you have a nice week

sara

2021-08-19 19:30:06 +0000 UTC

also not trying to throw shade or be rude or anything just sharing my thoughts

Kenzi

2021-08-19 19:22:46 +0000 UTC

i feel like part of you is almost pleased that paula finally feels the way you do about clara and part of that idk feels like you are pushing it along im not saying the paula doesn't also not like clara now but it just feels like you have been waiting for this lol not saying i blame you for that but just something i noticed maybe im wrong

Kenzi

2021-08-19 19:17:01 +0000 UTC

and like ScotchBeard78 said missy did pair them up so i think the relationship is exactly how its supposed to be a little toxic. and as for danny and claras relationship no one is every going to be amy and rory but that doesn't make what clara did any less realistic she was grief stricken and can you 100% say you wouldn't do the same bc i know amy would

Kenzi

2021-08-19 19:09:59 +0000 UTC

.... yeah, but let's be real, I had to stop watching See Jane Go because 90% of stuff went over their heads... just sayin

ScotchBeard78

2021-08-19 19:07:42 +0000 UTC

Watching you two cry,makes me emotional and I am 65, keep your reactions coming, high light of the week.

Brian Gilliver

2021-08-19 19:06:14 +0000 UTC

i mean yeah she tricks and lies to him constantly but i mean so does the doctor and i know the companion isn't supposed to lie or whatever is supposed to me good but its not like the doctor tells her not to lie in fact he is impressed with how good of a liar she is. in a way i think he wanted her to be good at those things because if anything he more made her that way the doctor did anyway

Kenzi

2021-08-19 19:05:26 +0000 UTC

I enjoyed the reaction, but it was a bummer to me that there was a kind of giving up, like "I don't know what the show wants me to feel." I think it's a darker season with a lot of messy emotions and no ONE person is right. Danny has the right to resent the Doctor acting like an upper class officer, and I don't think it's bad writing for us to think Clara's being selfish or totally unstable from grief (totally agree: the Danny Pink romance was NEVER properly earned, but honestly I blame bad casting as much as the writing) -- but the climax WAS a culmination of the rough emotional arc Clara and 12 went through all season: "Sometimes all you have are bad choices. You still have to choose." I think their relationship is supposed to be slightly toxic -- because frankly, Missy paired them up and they're a match for each other. Clara doesn't worship him like Amy did, and I think that was always on purpose to contrast it as a new dynamic. I don't think fans like when the companion isn't in awe of the Doctor. And Clara's cocky, opinionated, arrogant, and reckless, but (for Capaldi-Clara at least) those are definitely character choices, not lapses in writing. And their relationship is best exemplified by that heart-breaking "goodbye" where they choose to lie to each other out of love. Anyway, thx for the reaction, bummed me out you weren't into it, but I tune in for your genuine takes, so here's hoping the stories head in a direction that grabs you again. xo

ScotchBeard78

2021-08-19 19:02:21 +0000 UTC

I'm just laughing here. You think This writing is bad. 🤣🤣🤣🤣 But then different things work for different people. So listening and accepting those different view points is all we have.

Daryl

2021-08-19 18:59:14 +0000 UTC

Wow The ‘Gallifrey Girls’ Reaction to this finale was completely polar opposite to Jane&JV (See Jane Go) reactions-who were Pro-Danny/Anti-Missy 🤣🤭

Wajid-Ibrar Haq

2021-08-19 18:37:48 +0000 UTC

Well reacted girls,. Emotional, moffet did what he probably set out to do,love and hate.

Brian Gilliver

2021-08-19 18:37:22 +0000 UTC

So endeth Series 8, a very complicated and divisive series. I think Moffat's reach exceeded his grasp. I saw what he was trying to do, but he wasn't able to pull it off. The last two episodes were kinda OK for me. I did like certain moments, but the overall plot and emotion didn't work for me. These eps rely HEAVILY on the viewer being emotionally invested to make things work. Didn't love or hate Clara, Danny, or their relationship, it was just there. I almost see them as just a vehicle for getting points across. I DO love Missy with all my heart, she is hands-down the best thing to come out of this series.

Firefly24601

2021-08-19 18:17:37 +0000 UTC

Our reactors are definitely not alone with their feelings on Clara as her character was very divisive at the time of the finale's release that I recall. A definite love/hate with that one. Still gorgeous though, yowza.

Henry from CO

2021-08-19 18:05:04 +0000 UTC

Finale time!

Henry from CO

2021-08-19 17:57:45 +0000 UTC

Well, we recorded these in the same sitting. So unfortunately any comments left last week aren't going to be referenced in this video. I'm not sure what to say about our reaction to not liking a character or how they were written. Everyone is going to have different opinions here and we understand that and even discuss it at the end of the episode. Paula goes further into why it just does not work for her as storytelling but that doesn't disregard that it worked for others. I'm really happy that you enjoyed Clara and her whole story! It's not something that we can really lie about though, especially since this reaction was filmed right after the last one, so yes, Paula was still feeling upset about what happened. - Kat

Time Lord

2021-08-19 17:49:56 +0000 UTC

Guys I love your reactions and left a long ass comment last week explaining the value of Clara's character whilst respecting your authentic reactions, but I am 5 minutes in and the Clara hate is already exhausting, like yall are mad at the intro? Really? It is starting to not be fun to watch, much love from a long time viewer.

Valkyrie

2021-08-19 17:42:32 +0000 UTC

Death in Heaven, Gallifrey Gals Get Wibbly Wobbly! S8Ep12

Comments

Oooo boy if she hates character inconsistency then she is going to HATE season 11 and 12

If they didn't do the stupid moment with Clara under the bed and left some mystery about the creatures then yes it would have been one of the best for me too but man for me they droped the ball so hard in the last third of that episode

Kill the Moon

We'll have to respectively disagree with your opinion on the Jodie era. It isn't all bad writing. There are some clunkers in there, but to damn the entire era, well i'm sorry but i can't agree.

He didn't even need to overcome the conditioning since, for Missy's cybermen, conditioning was, for some reason, optional.

Aside from everything else in Season 8, it did give us Listen, a truly beautiful episode, one I still consider as one of the best

There is a difference between the bracelet being use as a teleport or as a an interface with the nethersphere, and between it being used to turn digital copies of minds into actual, flesh and blood, people. that twist really came form nowhere

i feel like i was very emotional when i made my earlier comments i don’t take them back but i didn’t mean them in a rude or malicious way at all i do love y’all and your reactions great content really

Ok, apologies, didn't hear that part in Paula's reaction, it seemed minor so didn't think it was a spoiler, will do better 😔 Sorry Henry and all

Changing the subject, I like to see the next Regeneration of KATRINA'S hair styles. Keep em coming

It was sent to us! I believe it was sent through red bubble :) - Kat

Yes you're right, I've completely spoilered everything NOT

spoilers dear, at this moment paula knows nothing of clara's future.

I agree with you guys on season 8, but still love clara's companion style. Im not a fan of season 8 i didnt even continue to season 9 for about a year after it aired(which i regretted)

some of the other items you mentioned were actually set up, but I think you were tuning it out when you were rolling your eyes so hard over Clara threatening to leave the Doctor over Cyber-Danny. We clearly see Missi use the bracelet as a teleport, and then inside the nethersphere afterward.

Rose also nearly destroyed all of reality TWICE (saving her dad back in 'Father's Day' and then punching holes through the dimensions in the S4 finale, causing the collapses of the stars). Personally that feels WAAAY more selfish to me than anything that Clara's done, but YMMV.

100 million percent agree with you Paula. The Danny Clara relationship was too forced and didn't deserve the payoff they were hoping for.

Slightly random, but where did Katrina get that shirt? My gf needs some Whovian gear.

Yeah they yell over every line Clara and Danny say then call them self centred, it is hard to watch and I don't even like Danny. Yet they sympathise with Missy a legit war criminal lmao.

Love and Monsters

To think, Moffat also wrote the show 'Coupling' before this 🤣 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coupling_(UK_TV_series)

In the forest of the night ....

James Cordens character (and acting) had a believable love, I think that's the point.

I always enjoyed Twelve in just about everything he did. Can't say the same about Moffat, and yet it is more hit than miss for me overall with his work. I still think "Eleventh Hour" is the best opening WHO episode, well, ever.

the following year lmao, I hated almost every character in season 13 but even I didn't exert this much energy hating a character.

Consistency, right?

Yeah?

I probably would have said the 12 is an extension of Moffat. Like 11 was who he wishes he was (romantic hero) and 12 is who he actually is (cranky idiot). Maybe that's a stretch. But they are both from Glasgow... And so is Missy!!

In my opinion this is one of the worst episodes of Doctor Who except for a few scenes.

Something tells me Paula is going to be pissed next week, and she's going to be even more pissed the following week.

Jenna Coleman did plan to leave the series on 2 separate occasions before she finally left and then changed her mind and had to be written back in. Scripts were already prepared or in process and had to be altered for her character.That may be part of the problem with her arc.

Thanks for your honest reactions!

"It's just amazing that this show can make me roll my eyes in absolute boredom, and then 10 minutes later I'm like can't stop ugly crying". Must be talking about the Moffat Era. Sometimes it feels like Clara is just an extension of himself, you love or hate him.

also not trying to throw shade or be rude or anything just sharing my thoughts

.... yeah, but let's be real, I had to stop watching See Jane Go because 90% of stuff went over their heads... just sayin

Watching you two cry,makes me emotional and I am 65, keep your reactions coming, high light of the week.

I'm just laughing here. You think This writing is bad. 🤣🤣🤣🤣 But then different things work for different people. So listening and accepting those different view points is all we have.

Wow The ‘Gallifrey Girls’ Reaction to this finale was completely polar opposite to Jane&JV (See Jane Go) reactions-who were Pro-Danny/Anti-Missy 🤣🤭

Well reacted girls,. Emotional, moffet did what he probably set out to do,love and hate.

Our reactors are definitely not alone with their feelings on Clara as her character was very divisive at the time of the finale's release that I recall. A definite love/hate with that one. Still gorgeous though, yowza.

Finale time!

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