PATRON TAKES - DS9 S1E3

I don't have too much to say about this one, I just like Garak. 7.3/10, B- Tier, Good. I rank it below TNG's Contagion and above TNG's Half a Life (which should be higher now that I think about it.)

Steven Cressler

I really loved the scene between Odo and Kira in the security office. I feel like if there’s one area where the show starts off strong here in its first few episodes, it’s in displaying and making good use of at least some of the various relationship dynamics in the cast.

KR Thompson

Not the best, but that Odo/Kira scene in security is so amazing, it basically carries the whole episode for me. Apart from that I'd call this an interesting story that's not been told very well, which is a welcome improvement from this writer's other episode - Code of Honor. 6/10 (low B). Would be much lower without that one 10/10 scene

awktopus

I feel like this is the type of episode that separates DS9 lovers from people who think it doesn’t pick up for a few seasons. To me this a great meat and potatoes episode that shows DS9 is adult and compelling, even when it’s not a classic. Low A.

John M.

Jon is correct. DataL0re, my post says nothing whatsoever about the future. Read it again carefully, and you will see that. Your post, on the other hand, IS a spoiler.

Shane Coombs

Hmmmm..... The actor didn't talk about that till years later. Maybe that is something Josh and Alex should see, or not see, on their own?

Greg Quinn

Welcome to the enigma that is Plain Simple Garak.

Sleeper

I feel they shouldn't even look at the takes for this

DataL0re

A minor thing but I really like how the transporter room is right there in the open on the opps, makes the flow a lot smoother instead of running to another room every time

Fedora The Explorar

While the last episode was very heavy plot wise, this episode is a good time to dicuss the premise of the show. A cardassian station overlooking Bajor after they were occupied by the cardassian with the hopes to get Bajor into the federation and theres a stable wormhole leading to the gamma quadrant next to them. What kind of writing opportunities are you excited for with this premise and what do you hope they'll do with it?

Fedora The Explorar

Garak seems a bit creepy.

DataL0re

So you met everyone's favorite Cardasssian taylor. What do you think? Is he a spy or not? And if you think he is a spy - do you think he spies for the Cardassian government or for his own interests?

Sam Langanke

Garak is one of the best minor characters ever created for Trek.

Aramis Calcutt

I did see your point tbh 😅

Darren

Deleted.

Paul Rymer

Andreas, I do not think that going around tagging every post as a spoiler is a good idea, and one of the reasons for this is that in fact I would argue that some of your comments are MORE spoilery than the comments you're tagging. In fact many of the things you're tagging are things that Alex and Josh would not take any information from or take to mean anything about the future of the show, but now that they are tagged as spoilers they WILL know to read more into the comments. and consequently will be spoiled. This is a good example of that. I will explain why after a long break to prevent spoilers. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * The idea of a lot of people joking about a one off "meme quote" like "plain and simple tailor" is something that people have done several times with various one-off characters. There is no hint with that quote. It could just be a line the fans think is funny. There have, as I said, already been several like this. Now then, your post here actually DOES reveal something, that the line is not just one of these one-off meme quotes. Without your post, the guys would not necessarily be spoiled by a post like Ron's here. With your post, they definitely will be. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Shane Coombs

Not only is this not a spoiler, but it is *identical* to an example Josh gave of an appropriate comment.

Shane Coombs

This is not a spoiler. It accords entirely with what Josh said in his video about Patron takes and is extremely similar to an example he offered of a comment that would be appropriate.

Shane Coombs

To me this is an episode about feeling out what it means to have main cast members who aren't part of Starfleet, and Nana Visitor and Rene Auberjonois both have their characters nailed already. Some s1 episodes I can take a pass on, but there's some great stuff in here.

bab

I guess this is a C. Not the best episode after such an awesome pilot. I love the S-tier banter and charisma in the Garak-Bashir scenes, but the terrorist-plot was D-level boring. Something about a TNG-Technobabble-Bomb? I already forgot. Nice to see the sisters again, but they could just as well have been any other criminal.

TinMan_7B9

I see what you did there. I'm sure some won't

Greg Quinn

This episode shows that not everybody on Bajor is happy to have the Federation around. Something we haven't seen yet before to this extreme. Kira going through soul searching whether she's a traitor or not... good stuff. great introduction to the challenges Sisko has to deal with at his new post. What do you think of the Bajoran storyline so far? I think you said in the pre-discussion that you wanted the Cardassians to play a bigger role. Now that they have done so in a couple episodes, what do you think about it?

Andreas Schmitt

The best Garek episode so far.

Gruzz

The fairly sympathetic portrayal of a terrorist is interesting. Starting off gritty.

Badger

There was no lawsuit, only discussions of one.

Column Meanie

Overall fine but not great episode. Some important moments/connections though! B- probably? an almost banger that gets elevated by a few characters and moments. Good: Good moments and characters - Ah, hello guest character "plain, simple, Garak" with the excellent Andrew Robinson - Bashir's combination of naivete and self centeredness - Duras Sisters appearance! - More good stuff with Sisko and Kira, Odo, and nice continuity with Chief and the Cardassians. Not so good: Predictable plot and 'villain' character - Main plot isn't that gripping, not bad, but not great - Tahna Los character is a little predictable and average - I think they could have better used the Duras sisters, even if it was nice to see them.

D Gyre

The confusion is two-fold. The pilot is actually a single 2-hour movie, not two episodes. However it is still officially listed as 1.1 and 1.2. The other bit of confusion is that the first episode produced after the pilot actually aired after the second episode aired. So 1.4 aired before 1.3.

Column Meanie

I’m going to be absolutely thrilled if you get on board with us ds9 diehards

Phil Ken Sebben

Kira knows that, post Cardassian occupation, "blow it up" can't be the solution to every problem. But as a former freedom fighter and, yes, terrorist that *is* kind of her go-to move. And that makes going against Tahna, one of her own, really painful. Not a great episode, but a really good exploration of Kira's struggle to learn how to navigate wearing a uniform.

Ally Roth

S tier for Garak. My favorite character in all of Trek, and Garak/Bashir is my second-favorite ship, right behind the Romulan Warbird.

Jen A. Blue

Hopefully you guys have some mods that can pick out specific comments because a lot of these are spoilery.

Aroha

Garak is the type of character that makes DS9 so great, a character that Doesn't fit into the federation morality and isn't portrayed as the baddie of the week, this outside the federation view point and conflicting values is what sets DS9 apart from tng, but what do you think does trek need more shade of Grey characters?

Dark Kronis

S tier for Plain Simple Garak alone. My favorite character of any Star Trek series who's not in the main cast.

JoeCensored

The first season is solid. The actor was playing Garrek as Omnisexual. This episode was broadcast out of order. It should have been shown as the third episode instead of A Man Alone (1993). Sisko mentions the Klingon Civil War, which took place in TNG: "Redemption (1991)

empirejeff

As horror fans, you may recognize Garak's actor, as Kristy's dad in the original Hellraiser. It's the voice that really gives it away.

River Acheron

Everyone's got some weird things to say about a character that's only appeared in one episode..........

Brendon Waldron

I knew it was going to be bad, didn't think it would be quite this bad...

Brendon Waldron

I hope I have the right episode. "Past Prologue" is 1x2 on Prime. I'm shocked how better this is compared to TNG by leaps and bounds. A touch of intrigue, stakes and danger at the end, world building with the different races in the station, it's just a superior show. I'm shocked.

Ken R

For some reason, the teaser preview of this episode sticks in my mind almost more than the episode does. I will always remember "I want Bajor for Bajorans!" from the preview! Oh yeah, Lursa and Betor are in this.

Nathan Walker

Matt Everkoul

Gotta love Garak, his dynamic of untrustworthiness wouldn't fly on a Federation starship but works wonders on this station. Episode itself is a B if you love Garak's intro as a character, or a C if you aren't particularly moved.

cricketlenny

Greatest character IMO in all of Star Trek

Reality Strikes

“Plain and simple”!

Reality Strikes

Ah, garak. One of those great day players that stays with you.

Crankygrandma

If the first episode sets up the characters well, episode 2 does a good job of setting up the conflicts DS9 has to deal with being where they are and the people they’re dealing with. Another top episode ! And hopefully just 2 of many in this season!

Sixto

What I like about this episode is that it’s not afraid to show the gray side of political events, not just the black and white. The Bajorans did engage in terrorism during the occupation, and it has no qualms about calling it that. I thoroughly enjoy when the line between good and evil is blurred.

Evan Guthrie

True. I think I was letting Julian's imagination get the better of me.

tyranusfan

I really hope you love Garak.

Aramis Calcutt

Garak is easily the most interesting part of this episode. He takes what is I think a relatively mediocre outing and really elevates it, which won't be the last time a character does that.

Shane Coombs

I rewatched this recently too, and I must say that this is all around a good dayum episode. Every Star Trek show has its obligatory pilot. But then there's the first standalone where they gotta show how well the series can fly, and this one takes off incredibly well. We get the introduction of a fascinating new character (Garak), crossovers into previous Trek lore (the Duras sisters), and a proper examination of a mainstay character (Major Kira). It does SO MUCH in very LITTLE time, and it's a true showcase for how well DS9's storytelling and vision can work as the train rolls forward. I know it's super early for y'all to cast lots on the principal cast (except for maybe O'Brien), but Major Kira is my favorite character in this series, and perhaps all of Star Trek (or at least Nana Visitor may very well be my favorite actor). I look forward to seeing how you react to her in the future. And--while I'm sure everyone else is probably ranting positively about Garak--I can only echo that enthusiasm and just insist you two be patient~

Shortskirtsandexplosions

Best way to start the season. Pick a character and write an episode for them and their background where all the others support them. This week was Kira. Originally the character of Kira was written to be Ro, and you can see that pedigree in Kira's writing. But it definitely worked out better having the two being separate and distinct.

#MaxwellDidNothingWrong

"But you murdered civilians!" "Yeah but the Cardassians were bad so that makes it ok." One man's freedom fighter is another mans terrorist, only like, for reals for real.

#MaxwellDidNothingWrong

I think you're confusing characters. I know all Cardassians look the same, but Garak is the tailor.

#MaxwellDidNothingWrong

Nothing notable, just Garak, a plain and simple tailor.

Cobheran

He's just plain, simple, Garak.

Nolan

Nice to see the Duras sisters, but the real star was Garak. Spies are always fun to watch.

tyranusfan

"[Redacted] [Redacted] Garak..."

MrTickleTrunk

all i can say is "GARAK!"

jan

Garak, just a plain and simple tailor! Kira’s hair and uniform makeover is fabulous. Lursa & B’Etor on DS9!

Ron Hubbard Jr

Any confusion of similarities to Babylon 5 with the complex relationships on a space station? Well, there was that famous lawsuit. 😉

Paul D

Compare this to the Naked Now. They nailed ep. 2.

Loot Narsbaar

Now we begin settling in and learning more about a few of our characters. Oh and we meet Garek, a Cardasian tailor who decided to remain on the station, and gives our socially awkward doctor, Julian, some weird vibes. I don't think there's much to say on this episode, as we are still learning who everyone is, but the interaction between Kira and Odo in the security office is pretty neat character moment with how it ends by Odo calling Sisko, "There's someone down here in security who wants to talk to you, Commander."

Kristopher

A great look at Kira and the conflict she is now facing. One person’s terrorist is another’s freedom fighter. Even more relevant now than in the 90s. How different would this have been were it made post 9/11. It was great seeing Lursa and Betor but their look is off in this episode. I think it’s actually the lighting. Also, Garak. Nuff said. A for “A plain, simple tailor”

Column Meanie

A note: All the takes in this post are for episode 404 "Past Prologue" as they switched eps 3 & 4 on airing)

Nolan

Already DS9 sets itself apart by turning the tables on our perception of good v evil. By this point we've been taught the Cardassians are unntustworthy bad guys and the Bajorans are downtrodddn victims. This episode says "So?" and flips it. The Bajoran is the bad guy, and we need the Cardassians help. In the SECOND episode. Though what should we have expected when the show made it's first officer not Starfleet, but a former, ahem "Freedom Fighter." There is a lot more complex moralities already on this show, and Kira is a sign post of that. Plus a nice crossover via the Duras Sisters, tying the world together, just not too closely. And yes, Bashir is supposed to be this annoying at first.

Nolan

B for Bashir! Love seeing the good doctor bumbling into espionage. Honestly this episode would probably be lower for me if it weren't for Nana Visitor's performance, she really sells the inner conflict even when the antagonist was so obviously duplicitous he should have had a Snidely Whiplash mustache.

Groovybaboon

Second ever Patron Take! Kira’s hair is now S Tier.

Tom

Plain, simple Garak - a tailor with a mysterious past... and a sign that DS9 will explore building up a much more powerful extended cast...

The Ninth Doctor

This is where I was so glad Kira was here and not Ro - as much as I love her, Ro's character and experience doesn't quite have the same gravitas as Kira does.

The Ninth Doctor

DS9 feels here like its trying something TNG only touched on: introducing an extended guest cast. And, a lot of people who aren't Starfleet either, to provide fresh perspectives and dramatic tension. What do you think Gene would have thought of DS9...? 😉

The Ninth Doctor

Not really one of my favourites. Bringing in the Duras sisters this early in the show was 1 example of why people accused DS9 of riding TNG's coattails early on. Still, given the pilot set the cardassians up as the antagonists of the show, it's an great choice to have one residing on the station. Is he really just a tailor, or something more?

Timothy Nikiforovs

GARAK

Jiri Luza

Garak is one of the shining aspects of this show, and the utter ambiguity of his entrance works in his favor. The episode is more world building, but introduces many important elements, the main one in how it treats the Bajoran resistance, one of the best gray areas of the show.

Thomas Cole

Really enjoyed this on a rewatch. Forgot how abrasive Kira could be! Great to see Garak introduced

Paul Rymer

World building episode. A bit of a slog. I wasn't a fan of the Cardassian/Bajoran dynamic until a season or two later. But these episodes were necessary.

Darin Wagner

A plain and simple episode? You wouldn't have security pretending to be a rat or have a tailor share intel through a wardrobe fitting on TNG, that's for sure! And now that Gene is gone, the writers are allowed to let the conflict between two regular characters with different viewpoints like Kira and Sisko play out naturally.

THE LORE!!!

Best simple tailor in the quadrant.

Sequiro

Another good one, Kira is a force of nature and we get another intriguing Cardassian in the 92/93 seasons of trek in Garak. Trek has some great Cadassian characters appear during this year, from Madrid, Lemec and now Garak, The Klingon sisters are largely superfluous but fun to see again

Darren Seal

Fun seeing Lursa and B'Etor again, but I'm happy that the main focus is not on cameos but regional politics. We're not exploring strange new worlds on a station, so the writers are rightfully diving deeper into the Bajoran/Cardassian conflict.

Mel Primus

Yes, Ensign Ro was supposed to be here but Kira Nerys is a force of nature and Ro not being here was a blessing

Phil Ken Sebben

So so far we've seen Picard, O'Brian, Keiko, and now the Duras sisters on DS9. Are there any other TNG characters you'd like to see on DS9? Or any that you hope you don't see?

BN13

Garak gets introduced in this episode. Enough said.

Keith S

A nice illustration of the gray areas in DS9. The Cardassians aren’t always the enemy. The Bajorans aren’t always our friends but the Duras will always be sneaky.

Matthew McKinnon-Gray

Pro: Garak! (Andrew Robinson later said that he played his first scene explicitly as Garak wanting sex with Bashir) Con: Duras sisters, just for the sake of bringing over some TNG fans.

Fritz

What are your thoughts about plain simple Garak?

Strife

Since some of these episodes were broadcast in a different order from how they're arranged in my online reference, I'm going to be cautious. I do not remember this episode, which means I may not have seen it, or it may not have been very remarkable.

John

Welcome to the "get to know you" phase. A lot of these early episodes are as much about building backstory and character development as they are actual plotlines. DS9 feels like they dove into the kind of development we all enjoyed most as TNG leaned into it. Do you guys think you'll enjoy Slice of Life episodes of DS9 more or less than in TNG?

Ross Townsend

Also this episode was written by the same person who wrote the infamous TNG Season 1 episode Code of Honor and these are her only two Star Trek credits. I think she's gotten a lot better at writing women.

Fedora The Explorar

Garak and Kira are both great characters and I think they both exemplify the greatest strengths the show has and that its not afraid to add some shades of grey to our cast. Our XO was a freedom fighter who has done some horrible things, there is a Cardassian on the station who is just casually rumoured to be a spy and hes not a bad guy, he helps us out and plays both sides, and thats something that the show will only expand on.

Fedora The Explorar