POD 135: Listening to psychedelic clinical trial participants with Becca Kacanda
Added 2025-11-20 07:54:36 +0000 UTCIn this episode I talk with MAPS phase III trial participant Becca Kacanda about her experience successfully treating PTSD with MDMA psychotherapy. The conversation covers the complexity of psychedelic psychotherapy, the importance of listening to the participants directly, and what it was like to be manipulated by Psymposia-associate Sasha Sisko who attempted to convince her that the therapy she had received was "whack-a-doodle nonsense ‘therapy.'" We also discuss her involvement with different initiates aimed at solving these problems.
Psychedelic Lived Experiences - Virtual Summit - Nov 21st-23rd 2025
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MAPS Clinical Trial Participant Presentation at PS2025:
Lived Experience in Psychedelics: Insights Beyond the Breakthroughs
Psychedelic Art Therapy Network
How a Leftist Activist Group Helped Torpedo a Psychedelic Therapy
Comments
It sounds crazy but the stuff Sasha/Symposium is doing sounds like classic counter-op style psych-ops.
Edwina Tollstoy
2025-12-01 23:35:50 +0000 UTCWow….I heard some stuff about it but had no idea. So Sasha isn’t taking things out of context, he is lying. Patting someone going through heavy shit on the shoulder is not anything like cuddling with someone on the floor in a fetal position. Are they on the DEA payroll? Sasha sounds like a real douchebag or a fundamentalist control freak (same thing). What he said about your therapy makes me so mad. How could someone as fascist and control freakish as this guy Sasha be involved with psychedelics at all. It honestly sounds like he was harassing you. Has Sasha assaulted people who disagreed with him, sounds like he could and would.
Edwina Tollstoy
2025-12-01 23:22:43 +0000 UTCThis was a wonderful and really fascinating conversation. Thank you so much for sharing, Becca! You have such an important perspective and it deserves to be heard more. Really happy to hear about all the amazing things you’re up to now and hope that life has been treating you kindly.
gossamer
2025-11-29 00:16:38 +0000 UTCMany ketamine providers have no therapy training, it’s not required and the field has many anesthesiologists who think therapy is entirely unnecessary.
Hamilton Morris
2025-11-28 16:45:57 +0000 UTCIs there a comprehensive list of "MAPS trained" psychotherapists? There are so many new ketamine clinics popping up and it's hard to tell who's legit & who has no business doing it. I personally know an anesthesiologist who has jumped on the ketamine treatment bandwagon, and they have zero therapy training. Would a therapist actually trained for MDMA therapy also be adept at ketamine assisted therapy? Cause MDMA therapy is still officially illegal, correct? Great interview, thank you.
K
2025-11-27 22:34:02 +0000 UTCOo can't wait for the clandestine interviews !! Methyl man 😂 it sounds like a antihero moniker and it's perfect
M
2025-11-27 21:39:32 +0000 UTCGood interview, enjoyed hearing patient perspective on maps clinical trials.
Justin F
2025-11-25 18:00:44 +0000 UTCCould you email me the Ross dissertation? I was looking for it (as well as Brian's) but couldn't find it on ProQuest
Hamilton Morris
2025-11-23 19:07:29 +0000 UTCBecca, your comments on “inner healing intelligence” were insightful. Nesé, Lily Kay and Brian Pace are Marxists who believe inner work is a pointless substitute for changing “systems of oppression” which are by definition, external. Lily Kay is broadly skeptical of 1:1 trauma psychotherapy in general and her unhinged dissertation was on that. To draw on individual, inner strength to overcome trauma is a threat to the Frankfurt school ideology, which in the 1950s argued that psychoanalysis will become a tool of authoritarians… does that sound familiar?
Thomas Cook
2025-11-23 18:33:13 +0000 UTCBeautiful uplifting and informative interview!
Drew LaBarre
2025-11-22 17:05:54 +0000 UTCMia, Yes the information has been published (although the article was retracted because , as I understand, Meghan Buisson’s data had been part of the data set) . See Table 1 https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6695343/#:~:text=Primary%20outcome,predict%20outcome%20in%20this%20model.
rottogrotto
2025-11-22 14:29:30 +0000 UTCJust to say that the Psychedelic Lived Experiences Summit is really good. The panel discussion today featuring 4 trial participants from UK was so eye opening…. I highly recommend paying the small fee (with Hamilton’s discount) to listen to the recording and access all the other discussions and talks.
Sarah
2025-11-21 22:41:59 +0000 UTCYes, if I am saying something negative about someone named David Nickles I am NEVER talking about the chemist with a similar sound name. David Nickles real name is David Maliken. The members of Psymposia chose these fake names to create confusion, Sasha T. Sisko is an amalgamation of Sasha T. Shulgin and Bob Sisko, two widely admired psychedelic pioneers.
Hamilton Morris
2025-11-21 20:48:43 +0000 UTCI should have been more careful in my wording, I meant the PTSD population where substance use disorder is dramatically elevated and may be as high as 50%. MDMA use hasn’t been explicitly surveyed (to the best of my knowledge) among Americans with a PTSD diagnosis but based on trends with other drugs I think it’s reasonable to expect that it is elevated. Along with what Becca said about people who have previous experience with MDMA being more interested in the trials I think it’s likely the case that 40% is not radically different from what would be expected in a post-approval patient population. When you add the fact that there wasn’t a statistically significant difference in therapeutic response between patients who had previous experience with MDMA and those that didn’t I think this simply isn’t a real flaw in the trial design. There are also other arguments for why this may not be a flaw I’ve made in previous podcasts.
Hamilton Morris
2025-11-21 17:24:33 +0000 UTCThere are two people with names that are homonyms, I believe. David Nickles is the psymposia member who is against MAPS. Dr. David E Nichols is the famous medicinal chemist who was good friends / collaborators with Alexander Shulgin.
a b
2025-11-21 17:20:07 +0000 UTCHamilton, the sample including 40% of people who have tried MDMA is not close to the general population, which in 2025 still under 10% (though likely underreported). To me this is one of the most valid criticisms that is silly to argue against. I'll noodle on an example or analogy, but I feel like you understand the principle?
mia
2025-11-21 17:10:08 +0000 UTCI've only just started but want to say I appreciate your vulnerability Becca! Thanks for sharing so honestly. 🫂
mia
2025-11-21 16:57:31 +0000 UTCis there a different david nichols or are we really talking about david E nichols? i would have never thought about him that way.
jacob c
2025-11-21 16:06:32 +0000 UTCIs the name David Nickles a coincidence? Or has this person fashioned themselves after Dr. David E Nichols purposefully to be able to take advantage of the confusion it produces in situations like writing the foreword for PIKHAL?
a b
2025-11-21 15:08:35 +0000 UTCSweet!
M
2025-11-21 06:56:44 +0000 UTCSuch a clear, articulate communicator. I feel like I got quite a good sense of what the whole experience of being in these trials was like. Really sad to keep hearing about Psymposia and Sasha Sisko's trail of nefarious behaviour. It only becomes sicker and more twisted given that they posture themselves as some sort of ethical compass for all things psychedelic, yet constantly display that they are morally bankrupt.
Douglas Skene
2025-11-21 06:00:29 +0000 UTCIt’s formally reporting whether or not MDMA causes euphoria, hard to frame this as a serious problem, but it should have been recorded.
Hamilton Morris
2025-11-21 03:29:48 +0000 UTCGreat reporting and interview. Thank you. What is a 'positive adverse event reporting' (2:08:30)? I'm glad to hear that Psymposia finally seems to be completely discredited after doubling down on their ludicrous and abusive stories and opinions. What a bizarre and unexpected sequence of events.
david
2025-11-21 03:19:09 +0000 UTCListening to Becca’s story, it sounds like one of the most challenging aspects of the clinical trial process was not knowing whether or not she received the active compound. Functional un-blinding critics hate to see it! But doesn’t that make perfect sense? PTSD survivors deal with so much uncertainty as it is… Also, her account of the leg pain reminded me of that wonderful chapter in PiHKAL about the person who had been trapped under a desk during an earthquake (?) I believe, holding all of that trauma in their legs and releasing it during an MDMA encounter with Ann. Beautiful stuff.
Gabe KS
2025-11-20 22:12:07 +0000 UTCThe methyl man!? Love the vesp guests! Excited about the 7ohm too, I hope he says he picked up the oxone method from your Mike Cunningham episode.
taylor
2025-11-20 21:56:32 +0000 UTC7ohm seems pretty safe. I don’t think any humans have died directly from it. Respiratory depression is the main fatality risk for opioids which is basically non existent for 7ohm/kratom
taylor
2025-11-20 21:52:04 +0000 UTCWonderful conversation! This is an important perspective
Noel
2025-11-20 21:38:09 +0000 UTCThanks for releasing this!! I’ve been contacted with an offer to join a psychedelic clinical trial for Chronic Pain at the Hospital I go to, but I’m on the fence about it so hearing first hand what it’s like will be super helpful in making my decision.🙏 Also, the 7oh video is also pretty time sensitive considering how many people are using it, some in high amounts, and many, if not most, buying from companies who don’t release solvent lab results. I don’t even know the full scale/dangers of improper chemistry that causes leftover solvents and I’m someone who’s researched the topic quite a bit. Some questions I have are: how common are solvents in 7oh? But also, how common are they in any chemistry product made for consumption - both in legal & illegal drugs, from Rx pharmaceuticals, to RC’s/supplements & the black market?? And, lastly, if consumed, how dangerous are they? Is there acute risk, or is it mostly chronic & dose based?
Mark Hertzler
2025-11-20 21:06:34 +0000 UTCI’m I
wyrmwood
2025-11-20 20:34:58 +0000 UTCIt absolutely places as insane amount of pressure on patients that is distracting and often harmful
rottogrotto
2025-11-20 20:24:44 +0000 UTCThose photos look like the Usona Insititute…so no, it’s not the space. The therapy room was at UWMadison and looked more like a nice living room.
rottogrotto
2025-11-20 20:16:59 +0000 UTCBecca - you touched on the environment these clinical trials took place in a bit - If you're comfortable sharing, I'm curious if where you went was the space Usona contracted Digital Ambiance to design: https://digitalambiance.com/portfolio/usona-institute/ But most importantly, congratulations on successful therapy treatment. That makes me really happy to hear. ♥️
Samantha Firoze Sethna
2025-11-20 20:03:42 +0000 UTCI feel like it's really unfortunate that participants of such clinical trials can simultaneously find themselves in a position to feel some level of responsible for the very existence of these nascent therapeutic modalities. I absolutely understand how that could be the case, but that seems like it could pile so much else on top of their personal, therapeutic work.
Samantha Firoze Sethna
2025-11-20 19:52:29 +0000 UTCNone of them are. Nese teaches a creative writing class, Brian Pace does “soil science”, David Nickles is a glass blower, not sure what Ross does, Sasha Sisko was an unlicensed “psychedelic integration coach”, another one was an uber driver.
Hamilton Morris
2025-11-20 19:52:00 +0000 UTCPsymposia seems so unfathomably bizarre. Are some/all of them licensed therapists?
Samantha Firoze Sethna
2025-11-20 19:44:19 +0000 UTCGreat conversation.
Samantha Firoze Sethna
2025-11-20 18:54:00 +0000 UTC“I thought you guys were gonna prohibit some drugs over here! Why aren’t you prohibiting drugs yet?” -Hamilton Morris
Vippy
2025-11-20 18:31:42 +0000 UTCDavid E. Nichols actually wrote the controversial Compass psilocybin polymorph patent
Hamilton Morris
2025-11-20 18:28:40 +0000 UTCWhen I got to the bit about the anti-Compass merch, I had to rewind a few times before I remembered that David Nickles and Dr. David E. Nichols are not the same person ahaha
Josh Galloway
2025-11-20 18:20:35 +0000 UTCJust uploaded it
Hamilton Morris
2025-11-20 18:12:02 +0000 UTCPlease do upload the Art Kleps piece you mentioned if you're able to. Unless you have and I'm missing it? Huge appreciation for this chat, thank you.
Patrick Farrell
2025-11-20 17:25:29 +0000 UTCThank you !
rottogrotto
2025-11-20 16:47:05 +0000 UTCi have such a deep respect for becca kacanda, i feel so lucky to have her follow + support my substack!!
rayah
2025-11-20 15:41:12 +0000 UTCThank you for sharing
T
2025-11-20 15:27:37 +0000 UTCIt just gradually got back to normal on its own
rottogrotto
2025-11-20 15:26:13 +0000 UTCIt’s so crazy that individuals such as Sasha have effectively shut down something so unique and precious. I hope the tide changes again.
Johan Elverby
2025-11-20 13:44:51 +0000 UTCWhat an amazing discussion. Becca is so articulate, balanced, and no doubt an excellent art therapist. That second MDMA experience sounds so profound. Personally, I think only a more humanistic open-ended approach would be useful with psychedelics. Sasha Sisko sounds so abusive. And Psymposia sound like such disturbed people. The more I hear of them, from various sources, the more nauseated I become. That argument about super soldiers is just so vile. And so disrespectful to veterans. What sort of mind would come up with that? I used to be interested in understanding the minds of serial killers, but currently I’m curious about the minds of Psymposia members. I do wonder about their funding, too. We know a couple of sources, but I wonder about others. Interesting point about Jules Evans being potentially a more subtle but more threatening concern in the field. Depends on his motivations, I guess. I’m not entirely sure of them, because some recent articles he wrote were very much aligned to Susie Sarlo’s perspective, and yet Jules has a desire to help people who have experienced challenges with psychedelics. He has compassion, and balance in that domain. According to his writings, it seems he has only ever had one LSD experience and one Ayahuascha retreat experience himself, and both were challenging. If he hasn’t had any other experiences of psychedelics then his perspective will no doubt be somewhat skewed. Maybe his future writings will depend on funding sources and affiliations, as well as his own developing views. Hamilton, I hope you post this on your YouTube channel for the masses to hear because as you say, the voices of trial participants need to be heard.
Sarah
2025-11-20 13:28:57 +0000 UTCI want to thank you so much Hamilton for this interview. It was great and very eye opening. Thank you again for your dedication!!
Hasate
2025-11-20 11:48:14 +0000 UTCWhat a great interview! Still listening but I wanted to ask about your experience with taste changing, Becca, if that’s OK? I know someone who has experienced changes in taste and smell linked to a challenging experience and so I’m curious to know what helped?
Sarah
2025-11-20 09:36:53 +0000 UTCWorth noting this early interview was conducted shortly after my interactions with Sasha - was too nervous to even talk about it at the time
rottogrotto
2025-11-20 09:20:01 +0000 UTCGlad Becca is getting her voice heard! I also interviewed her about here experience in the trial a while ago. People might find it interesting to see how the discussion has evolved since it was recorded about a year ago: https://open.spotify.com/episode/1Jqs3Zu0XtNwdHD2pixC9z?si=zfA6XsWjRVCETwQxLDmhtQ Also, I’d love to have you on Furthure, Hamilton
Haley Dourron
2025-11-20 08:00:57 +0000 UTCWoooooo
oliversees
2025-11-20 07:56:16 +0000 UTC
