POD 104: Paying the price for a free chemistry education
Added 2024-05-19 20:55:37 +0000 UTCA clandestine chemistry interview unlike any other I've done, this is the story of a man whose chemistry education was paid for by an organized crime ring. After learning the necessary skills, he was tasked with synthesizing increasingly large quantities of MDA under ever-rising pressure until the entire operation exploded.
Total Synthesis II
Secrets of Methamphetamine Manufacture
Notes on the synthesis of chloro/bromo/iodosafrole
Comments
Same
Madelpine
2025-03-27 21:25:38 +0000 UTCI hope this guy gets to try 2cb
taylor gautreaux
2025-03-26 22:39:33 +0000 UTCIt seemed to be mainly in the 90s and early 2000s. Times have majorly changed
M
2024-12-16 20:43:09 +0000 UTCDamn this is legitimately a fucking crazy story. Thanks for this one Hammie
Brad
2024-11-13 04:02:51 +0000 UTCHamilton, I've been following for over 5 years now. This is without a doubt one of the best, most unique stories you've brought to light. I've been on the edge of my seat listening through this over the past two days. Thank you for everything you do.
Joel
2024-09-24 23:32:12 +0000 UTCNothing that cool I was just omw to play music at a festival, got a ride from the WRONG dude and got busted w shrooms. Totally corrupt process the whole way. What IS interesting is the catalpa tree I discovered by my house the other day 👀 I like keeping them a secret but this is a good place to ask what you know about them.
brady crow
2024-09-17 15:42:54 +0000 UTCSimilar in that you were engaged in clandestine synthesis? If so, what were you making?
Hamilton Morris
2024-09-13 17:32:01 +0000 UTClol indeed, I’m now perusing your username…
rabidreject
2024-09-12 14:54:45 +0000 UTCI actually found the best RC fuel method yet…distill once with a column. Collect the 9% azeotropic mix of NM:MeOH in one container - this can be used AS IS in a Henry reaction, so far it’s worked on 2,5-DMOBA and 3,4,5-TMOBA. I also then collect the fraction from 61c-101c in a separate container and either add water or saturated brine and boom it separates. Honestly, just using the azeotropic mix that I was using as glassware cleaner before was a revelation for me…🙈
rabidreject
2024-09-12 14:54:17 +0000 UTCI have a similar story! I'm also from San Antonio and I host the best free shows in town if anyone wants to jam!
brady crow
2024-09-03 19:08:11 +0000 UTCHang on….so you literally just add water and the nitromethane separates into a separate layer?! I’m literally grappling with this problem atm as my NM supplier disappeared and I already had 5l of that 30% red nitro fuel. I figured I’d do one distillation to rid it of oil and colour then a second fractional one to separate…well, the fractions I want! This sounds easier though! One thing I DO KNOW….just adding it to a separate funnel and freezing it don’t do shit!
rabidreject
2024-09-01 16:53:04 +0000 UTCDamn I didn't know about ther merck book ordered me one last night!
Kyle Langlois
2024-08-10 11:54:19 +0000 UTCDirty MDMA
M
2024-08-02 22:25:59 +0000 UTCThe MDMA in Grand Cayman has been purple for at least the last 9 months.
Kevin O'Loughlin
2024-07-27 02:18:20 +0000 UTCSo Austin/Texas gets mentioned multiple times as this semi hotspot for labs or psychedelics. But can't find any info
Pyrrhus
2024-07-22 15:49:53 +0000 UTCwhere is this former mecca of clandestine botany?
ansley b
2024-07-16 00:58:10 +0000 UTCCraziest fact I learned from this is that Hamilton has a skateboard
giberic
2024-07-11 08:23:10 +0000 UTCBy 😆
Corey Sauder
2024-07-06 02:15:56 +0000 UTCYeah I also laughed at that. White shirt and white jeans on a vert….with a respirator for good luck 🫣
rabidreject
2024-06-26 19:23:19 +0000 UTCLol....
M
2024-06-26 12:10:58 +0000 UTCBy the way, not sure that RC fuel separating in the fridge works for the red coloured stuff but if anything changes, I’ll update you guys.
rabidreject
2024-06-25 14:09:57 +0000 UTCWow this guy put up with some SHIT. It seems like there are way more gangs waiting to expose people in your country than mine (depending on where you live really) - it’s a sad state of affairs. I don’t think I would ever try classic things that are ‘watched’ like that though - even if that wasn’t his personal issue. Something to be said for odd psychedelics in that respect I guess. Also not selling anything helps..haha I did have people asking me to make both MDMA and meth when I was in prison - I expect those were the gangs tbf!
rabidreject
2024-06-25 12:28:29 +0000 UTCTbf, it was the second version of this book that actually got me interested and made me realise if I learned the actual terms of organic chemistry, I can at least follow Hamilton’s conversations a lot easier and then got interested in primary tryptamines…but ultimately, it was a mixture of strike’s book and Hamilton’s first shown synthesis of n,n-DMT, that got me interested in organic chemistry. I mean, he taught me what reflux meant!
rabidreject
2024-06-24 14:43:56 +0000 UTClove every side of this
E up
2024-06-09 07:11:25 +0000 UTCHas Hamilton talked to Leonard about being on joe Rogan? Does Leonard want to?
Killion
2024-06-08 07:03:54 +0000 UTCRight? I didn't know Hamilton skates. I'd love to see that
Cheminterested
2024-06-08 01:04:33 +0000 UTCI love how it just ends with Hamilton saying, "I have a skateboard."
Cheminterested
2024-06-08 01:03:53 +0000 UTCWow, his articulation of the timeline was very well put together. Great listen.
defrank montana
2024-06-05 02:35:53 +0000 UTCWow, what an incredible story. My heart broke listening to this one and I’m so glad he came out the other end okay and got to do only 9 months in prison. I hope he’s doing well now and that life has been kinder to him since. Thank you so much for sharing his story. The skate ending was such a wonderful moment. <3
gossamer
2024-06-03 03:45:19 +0000 UTCWheres the skate footage?! Epic end to that convo🤘 Gotta get you on a skate podcast now…
Mark Hertzler
2024-06-01 22:53:59 +0000 UTCHe’s right about the even-numbered pages being missing from total synthesis 1. I went from incredibly elated to incredibly sad very quickly.
Jameson kerr
2024-05-30 14:19:01 +0000 UTCThumbs up on this one, looking forward to the skate edit
Kyle
2024-05-29 22:54:55 +0000 UTCI kinda wish you did outros. I always think my app crashed when the episode ends lol.
Crypto Tonight
2024-05-29 19:54:51 +0000 UTCThis is a sobering cautionary tale for anyone who is thinking about getting involved in high level drug manufacture. I'm lucky that I didnt meet the wrong people back in my early 20's. This could so easily have been my life, I was stupid and naive and would have jumped at the opportunity to do chemistry.
Crypto Tonight
2024-05-29 19:16:40 +0000 UTCI figured he had. It's too bad .
M
2024-05-29 16:55:53 +0000 UTCMultiple people have asked this question... He responded to another comment on this video about interviewing "Strike", he said: "I've tried, I'll try again."
B-Boy Bungus
2024-05-29 14:32:29 +0000 UTCHamilton I'll write this again on the new episode but is there any chance of a Hobart Huson interview
M
2024-05-28 23:53:40 +0000 UTCI tried to distill a primary alkyl bromide, I stopped the stirring for 1 sec just to check how much product was still in the flask and it went from a pale yellow liquid to a deep red in less than a second. Of course each compound is different but it can definitely happen if you heat up too much. But you can't know until you try...
Paul
2024-05-28 21:30:21 +0000 UTCCan anyone let me know why there haven't been any questions and answers in awhile? Those are my favorites:(
Tom
2024-05-26 18:49:03 +0000 UTChttps://youtu.be/bij-89fpFBw?si=Lu8JCt6BpfNwjeTj
Declan Mcqueeney
2024-05-25 23:12:46 +0000 UTCSomeone else may have commented this already, but there is an interview on youtube with a guy involved with distribution who was in competition with the mob guys who were forcing this man to work for them.
Declan Mcqueeney
2024-05-25 23:12:32 +0000 UTCThe idea of donating books on lock picking and explosives to a high school had me dying lol
Nathan Stichter
2024-05-25 21:21:44 +0000 UTCInsane. His story would make quite a film
Nathan Stichter
2024-05-25 20:43:11 +0000 UTCThis dude was enslaved. Felt like that was left ambiguous. And he's definitely got some weird psychology lingering from it
CSN
2024-05-25 01:33:38 +0000 UTCThanks for letting us know you've reached out. I figured you would have, but nice to have confirmation. I had a family member busted for a large amount of marijuana in 2000, and although he's the kind of person I would've expected to regale us with his adventures and tales, he really doesn't talk about it. Even with the subject of this interview "de-romanticizing" it, I think there are listeners that will romanticize regardless. My younger self would have tuned out the cautionary/troublesome aspects and focused on the things I wanted to hear.
B-Boy Bungus
2024-05-25 01:18:44 +0000 UTCThis is probably my new favourite episode and I’ve listened to just about all of them. Helps that it both sounds very realistic and is backed up but he’s also really good at telling the story
Casper Norén
2024-05-24 23:35:42 +0000 UTCholy shit
Chad Barthalamew
2024-05-24 22:47:43 +0000 UTCHamilton, that copy is missing the even numbered pages. That’s what I was referring to, that the only copy on the internet that I’ve ever found was missing the even numbered pages. Sorry if I wasn't clear.
David Elsberry
2024-05-24 19:33:33 +0000 UTCI've tried, I'll try again.
Hamilton Morris
2024-05-24 18:55:46 +0000 UTCThe first Total Synthesis is now linked in the description as well.
Hamilton Morris
2024-05-24 18:55:23 +0000 UTCDudes got some balls telling his story . Respect
Tanner
2024-05-24 13:55:26 +0000 UTCJust when you thought the DEA couldn’t get any more cartoonishly ghoulish, that story about them trying to turn the mother of his children against him…unbelievable
Gabe KS
2024-05-24 04:45:05 +0000 UTCBut this guy's interview was so strong BECAUSE he de-romanticized it...and everyone knows the details of Strike's journey (if you know where to look) anyway, so...It's up to him. Even got Hamilton to get on a skateboard !
Raleigh Smalls
2024-05-24 03:48:13 +0000 UTCSuch a unique perspective and what a gem to have come across. Thanks to him for sharing his story and to Hamilton for bringing it to us.
Kimberly shah
2024-05-24 02:21:50 +0000 UTCIt's possible that Strike doesn't want to be interviewed. Some people that have been in legal situations are not as inclined to "glamorize" their previous behavior. Just because people on the internet think you are cool is not a great reason to go into details about past incriminating behavior. But I would love a Strike interview.
B-Boy Bungus
2024-05-24 01:04:28 +0000 UTCWhy doesn't he have Strike on ?
Raleigh Smalls
2024-05-23 17:13:37 +0000 UTCI misspoke, it is Total Synthesis, the first book, that I was referring to. The interview is amazing. I have read a lot about him, but this filled in so many gaps for me. Thank you!
David Elsberry
2024-05-23 09:02:41 +0000 UTCTotal Synthesis II is linked in the description.
Hamilton Morris
2024-05-23 07:37:25 +0000 UTCThis is one person that I thought I would never hear. I’d love to someday see the full copy of Total Synthesis II. It’s just not on the internet anywhere sadly and when a hard copy comes around it’s quite expensive. Thank you Hamilton. If I could have picked anyone for you to interview, it would be him but I never thought he would tell his story. Absolutely fascinating.
David Elsberry
2024-05-23 05:10:58 +0000 UTCSomething about the way he talks reminds me of Frank Lyga.
Peter Thomas
2024-05-23 02:56:21 +0000 UTCDespite the bias I mentioned, the reality is that I almost never encounter stories like this. Usually it really is law enforcement serving as the only antagonists.
Hamilton Morris
2024-05-23 02:17:46 +0000 UTCYes, something is wrong. Yes, they meant helional at the start. The MAPS MDMA article repeats an error present in the original Schulze publication where the diagram mislabels heliotropin (aka piperonal) as helional. The additional carbons are coming from a Perkin reaction between piperonal, propionic anhydride, and sodium propionate.
Hamilton Morris
2024-05-23 00:44:46 +0000 UTCAll his advice is fantastic too
Pvt. Idaho
2024-05-22 21:24:30 +0000 UTC"We don't care about those people... They're not the ones we're after." 🤍
Pvt. Idaho
2024-05-22 21:12:37 +0000 UTCI put this one on while having trouble falling to sleep. Ended up so engaged that I listed to the whole thing staying up till 4am… one of my favourite episodes, and I’ve listened to them all!
Oscar Graham
2024-05-22 21:07:00 +0000 UTCSorry it’s nagging me. Is something wrong with the 6th synthesis route in that MAPS mdma article? They say “Curtius Rearrangement from Helional (Schulze, 2010)” but the first reagent is 2 carbons short of helional aka piperonal. So either it picks up 2 carbons from the Na ethanoate or from the prop anhydride. Or they meant helional at the start. Latter I think.
david
2024-05-22 16:16:15 +0000 UTCI’m glad you’re telling the darker side of things. As someone who moved to the former Mecca of clandestine botany I often come across stories like this. Its pretty universal that these types of folks want drugs to remain illegal or become more criminalized because there power to intimidate and blackmail is directly correlated to how illegal a substance is. The violence they use as a tool is super charged by the isolation cause by criminalization. So I think it’s good to point out with these stories that repealing drug laws would do infinitely more harm to there business model than harsher sentences or higher law enforcement budgets which actually help them. I liked the phrase Hamilton used when he said, oh I thought you were just under medium pressure, because this is what I thought a lot , people are under medium pressure, but that’s not always the case. I do come across a lot of positive stories and still romanticize a lot too so I appreciate the full spectrum. Great Pod! Thanks to the Chemist for sharing, and Hamilton and Crew for all the good work! ✌️
Enchanted FX
2024-05-22 15:18:45 +0000 UTCHell yeah brother, skate or die! 🤘🏻
Phlegm
2024-05-22 12:02:41 +0000 UTCAmazing interview that felt super authentic and not trying to impress Hamilton. It's quite remarkable how much he spoke about the ins and outs of things giving a real sort of account of what it's like for some clandestine operators. I can only imagine the duress, danger and coercive tactics used to keep people manufacturing meth/amphetamine in my own country, and I somehow doubt the individuals would have received this educational scholarship. Fascinating.
Douglas Skene
2024-05-22 08:52:24 +0000 UTCI understand your hesitancy to do interviews with people who have experienced violence/negative aspects of clandestine chemistry. However, I think Patreon is the best platform for this type of content, as the people here are here because they have an open mind about the ethics of these topics.. youtube is quite a different story. loved this one xx
Laura Ash
2024-05-22 05:54:27 +0000 UTCThough I find it odd that this phenomenon dosen’t seem well documented, I imagine these same issues would be far worse distilling something like t-butyl bromide where both products of the elimination are gasses
Hamilton Morris
2024-05-22 03:15:22 +0000 UTCBut crucially you wouldn’t even need to break the vacuum manually. If the bromosafrole begins to eliminate at a sufficient rate it will effectively negate the vacuum via rapid pressure increase from gas evolution, likely self-promoting further elimination and pressure increase until the apparatus explodes.
Hamilton Morris
2024-05-22 03:05:34 +0000 UTCTY!! That new reference is a good overview. In that document is referenced the start of distillation at 20 tor and 175C, so yep on the good vacuum you noted. I guess it's Boyle's law in effect when you break the vacuum. Delta T proportional delta P over the distillate which now can get way hotter before it vaporizes and I guess you get the entropic explosion. Wow.
david
2024-05-22 02:26:49 +0000 UTCPhenomenal interview. Thank you for taking the time to produce this material.
Mike
2024-05-22 02:19:02 +0000 UTCHe says that he was doing the distillation at 75ºC, so he must have had an extremely good vacuum, obviously breaking the vacuum on a hot distillate can rapidly cause oxidative and thermal degradation, but I think this explosion could be caused without breaking the vacuum if the temperature is high enough to promote elimination.
Hamilton Morris
2024-05-22 01:47:43 +0000 UTCI also have spent some time trying to explain the explosion, which has been reported in slightly different terms by other chemists (I added a new reference to the episode description, search the word "volcano"). My first thought was simply that the E1/dehydrobromination reaction is exothermic, and that is likely part of what's going on, but more importantly the dehydrobromination is yielding a gas that could rapidly increase the pressure of the system at a rate that outpaces the vacuum. This is a back of the envelope calculation using the ideal gas law, but if you assume the distillation apparatus is a 200ml closed system containing 50ml of bromosafrole that spontaneously and quantitatively eliminates you would expect the pressure in the system to increase by twenty atmospheres, that should be more than enough to overwhelm the vacuum, blow the joints (i.e., explode), and depending on temperature and other factors rapidly cause a series of other reactions that create the "charcoal-decomposition-volcano" and "black smoke."
Hamilton Morris
2024-05-22 01:30:32 +0000 UTCCan't post images but found this reference to a safrole bromination in the first image of the article, which is, by the way a pretty good one re the history of MDMA synthesis with the point being to show the MAPS 'novel' synthesis (for the purpose of patent). Would anyone care to comment on how this route compares to the route used by the chemist? https://unlimitedsciences.org/maps-brand-new-mdma-synthesis/ I'm still trying to understand what was causing his distillation 'explosion'. Was he releasing the vacuum to change the receiving flask? And am I correct in guessing that the best way to do this would have been a 'cow' receiving device or to have a stopcock somewhere in the system to isolate the changing of the flasks? Vacuum makes things bump or overflow worse it seems so what do you think was happening to cause what he called the 'uncoupling' when he released the vacuum which seems it might slow things down IMO? Was there a self sustaining thermal decomposition occurring as the vac was released?
david
2024-05-21 23:12:06 +0000 UTCHamilton throwing that heat lately🔥! So good!
Brett Egan
2024-05-21 18:41:06 +0000 UTCOne of the best episodes yet, makes me think of Jesse in the last season of Breaking Bad.
Helmer
2024-05-21 15:23:35 +0000 UTCHoly hell this was such a wild and interesting story!! I wish this guy the best
Noel
2024-05-21 06:59:47 +0000 UTCFantastic episode. A chilling and worthwhile cautionary tale. I especially appreciate your effort to use this particular podcast to provide a counterpoint to the oft-told 'clandestine chemistry is fun' narrative. Well done for admitting your own blind spots and please pass on our thanks to the interviewee.
Phil Oad
2024-05-21 00:35:40 +0000 UTCthank you hamilton, I haven't come across something that spiked my curiosity like this patreon in far too long
Frost
2024-05-20 23:49:26 +0000 UTCAs a avid skateboarder this one’s my favorite haha love the darker side of clandestine labs
reefer_rich123
2024-05-20 23:15:47 +0000 UTCDamn this one’s intense. Thank you so much for making my day with this interview.
Jeff gorski
2024-05-20 22:36:02 +0000 UTCGood work. Good questions, great story, plenty of details, chemistry forward with a twist of true crime... Maybe my favorite episode to date.
B-Boy Bungus
2024-05-20 20:41:20 +0000 UTCThis was such a bountiful and fulfilling, inspiring listening experience. Thank you. Honestly I am full of gratitude to have been apart of this today. 🙏🏽
Tampasami
2024-05-20 19:49:49 +0000 UTCA tension tool and a rake, Some safrole and HBr to bake, Ammonia in a 30# tank Here is what ChatGPT with some help seems to think: In the heart of Texas, where cities sprawl, Lived a chemist clandestine, answering the call. His love for molecules, his passion untold, In the alchemy of atoms, his dreams unfold. With saffrole and HBr, he danced the dance, Mixing potions of hope, a risky chance. In the depths of his lab, where secrets reside, He crafted MDA with pride. College halls echoed with organic lore, Yet alone he was forced to delve to seek more. For his love of chemistry knew few bounds, In the symphony of reactions, his soul found. But shadows loomed over his humble abode, As organized crime cast its sinister code. Threats to family, chains of fear, Forcing his hand, he shed many a tear. Yet his heart remained true, a beacon of light, Amidst the darkness of a treacherous night. For he sought not wealth, nor power nor fame, But to heal with his craft, to ease human pain. In desperation, he sought the arms of law, To shield him from the crime's cruel claw. But the hands that should've offered grace, Revealed their own corrupted face. Bribes and threats, a twisted game, Yet he stood firm, unswayed by shame. For loyalty to his brethren, unwavering and strong, He would not betray, even when wronged. In the end, a soul torn by strife Seeking solace in the chaos of life. A chemist's tale, of love and despair, In the crucible of fate, he dared to care.
david
2024-05-20 19:07:55 +0000 UTC😭
M
2024-05-20 18:10:18 +0000 UTCThis was one of your best podcasts Hamilton well worth the wait if you continue to release quality like this. I’ll have to listen to this again.
Ari Givony
2024-05-20 16:13:24 +0000 UTCI second this.
Raelyn Brewer
2024-05-20 13:59:26 +0000 UTCYour such a beautiful soul Hamilton. Wanna go skate ! Loving.
KG - WC
2024-05-20 13:01:22 +0000 UTCWhat a great quotable 🤣
SizTheWorld
2024-05-20 10:59:36 +0000 UTCLove the ending! Quite a collection of MDxx episodes now !
zealot
2024-05-20 10:48:46 +0000 UTCAmazing!
Octopappa
2024-05-20 08:02:16 +0000 UTC🫡
Mason Sherman
2024-05-20 07:32:38 +0000 UTCI think it would be fascinating for you to do a two hour commentary dissecting everything discussed. That could be a podcast episode in itself. Really enjoyed hearing the making of a clandestine chemist starting with the early years. Hoping there are some backstories like this that will be incorporated in future interviews.
Adam Perkins
2024-05-20 06:08:08 +0000 UTCYou wanna go skate?
Cody
2024-05-20 05:58:43 +0000 UTCThe ending was so sweet, he sounded so stoked to go skating 😂
Naked Suitcases
2024-05-20 05:09:54 +0000 UTCSubscribed this month and good lord this is the best money I may have ever spent. Thank you Hamilton 💚
Siwanand Das
2024-05-20 05:00:07 +0000 UTC🤯😍
Tom J-L Harkness
2024-05-20 02:04:05 +0000 UTC(which isn’t discounting these stories and experiences btw, I just find it interesting how those things were in the water back then)
Kasey
2024-05-20 01:42:02 +0000 UTCProbably my favorite episode so far, great story and great story teller, knowledge wise only a couple of syntheses under my belt but wow I am captivated. The synthesis portion is always my favorite parts of stories like these. Thank you for letting him tell this amazing story!
InterestChemist
2024-05-20 00:54:49 +0000 UTCLoompanics rabbit hole, skateboard ending
Melbourne Lloyd Roth Jr
2024-05-20 00:18:37 +0000 UTCThis is an amazing interview Hamilton, it's podcasts like these that blow my mind... an insane story that would never have been told if it weren't for you. ❤️
Aidan
2024-05-19 23:49:41 +0000 UTCre lock picking and Uncle Fester, I first encountered Loompanics books at a shop literally called Spy Headquarters in Phoenix in around 1990. They sold everything from clandestine cameras to butterfly knives, it was an edgy little boy’s dream. Chain books stores in the mid-90s were the nexus of all my clandestine interests - 2600 in the magazine rack at Barnes and Noble, finding Pihkal and Archaic Revival at Borders. The psychedelic hacker starter kit was literally on the shelf at the strip malls of the 90s.
Kasey
2024-05-19 23:39:56 +0000 UTCHe liked his methamphetamine hot of the griddle? 😂😂😂
Aidan
2024-05-19 23:10:41 +0000 UTC2hr+ clandestine chemistry podcasts will always be god tier. Thanks hamilton
Paul
2024-05-19 21:29:53 +0000 UTCAt first I thought to myself, id love the opportunity this man received and then I listened for a couple minutes. Thank you for sharing this story 🙏
Gabe Martinico
2024-05-19 21:29:25 +0000 UTCFixed.
Hamilton Morris
2024-05-19 21:10:56 +0000 UTCIdk if it’s just me but the links in the description don’t work
Mason Sherman
2024-05-19 21:06:43 +0000 UTCI'm elated, thank you!
Riki Sharma
2024-05-19 21:04:52 +0000 UTCContinuing the clandestine MDA synthesis saga. Thanks Hamilton!
Jason
2024-05-19 21:03:06 +0000 UTCabsolute banger I can already tell
Josip Ledić
2024-05-19 20:58:24 +0000 UTCFirst
M
2024-05-19 20:57:03 +0000 UTC
