September 22: What Comes After TLS

Sometimes I miss comments on old posts, but I did get the notification email in this case. Thanks for giving your thoughts!

Sierra Lee

I know im coming at this quite late but perhaps its still relevant. I think NSFW content is important. As NSFW is a part of real life. Games are often hyperrealized versions of things we can actually do. IE; kingdom building in TLS is a fantasy version of what we can actually do. It makes the game feel like it has more complete stakes. You save the character and you can get a properly rewarding thank you. further I think there is more space to innovate in the NSFW space there are already billions of dollars being poured into SFW storytelling you have a unique space in making female positive NSFW content, you are alone (mostly alone?) in this space giving you great freedom and great ability to stand out. Its often better to be the best at what you're doing.

Thanks for your input! That's a new angle on things, I think.

Sierra Lee

For me personally, having some nsfw content in the game compels me to play it more than if there were none. I definitely play TLS for the story and the characters and I don't really read the sex scenes but I think knowing they are there subconsciously motivates me to play.

Cannali

Thanks for your feedback! At minimum I've dipped my toes into Unity with DStP, but we'll see where I go overall.

Sierra Lee

I think moving to Unity would be the most professional option, but it'd also be the most demanding one. I'd like to see it, but I'd understand if you decided against it due to too much background coding involved. I also checked staying with RPGMaker, because MV seems like it can take a lot of creative "abuse" and I bet you could get a lot of mileage out of it. On the other hand just a solid no to RenPy. It's great for VNs, but miserable for combat/RPG and attempts at hacking those in feel like the game might implode from the strain at any moment (Kingdom of Deception?). Would love for the next TLS to still be a full game, not an illustrated book with minor interactive distractions. :P NSFW: Dunno, it's fun to have it, but if it's not there, oh well.

Were you born with a heart full of neutrality?

Sierra Lee

I have no strong feelings one way or the other. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxK_nA2iVXw

DukeLeto7

Thanks for your feedback! Though I'm personally a fan of JRPGs, I understand that many aren't. You're a bit more likely to get your druthers simply because I've been doing JRPG combat for years, though. As for a lawn mowing simulator... I've always wanted to do a Frog Fractions. =D

Sierra Lee

Yeah, you aren't the only person to raise this issue. It's a valid thought, but my response to it is buried among the above posts. As for side projects, I'm really hoping to finish DStP and OEA, then not replace them with comparable projects. We'll see how that goes.

Sierra Lee

Thanks for your thoughts! I really was glad to take the approach to sexual relationships that I did, and thanks to your support I do have the option of going forward with niche projects whenever I think I have something worthwhile.

Sierra Lee

Whatever I choose, I don't want to rehash the same themes I covered in TLS, because by the end I'll have covered them to the best of my ability. I do think addressing adult themes in a natural way (ie Crimson Gray) runs the risk of turning off SFW fans and not satisfying NSFW fans, which is an unfortunate fact of our culture.

Sierra Lee

I put in a vote against RPGMaker, but not because of any concerns about how it looks. I just don’t really like the classic JRPG combat that’s built into the engine. For me the combat often feels like a chore that has to be completed in order to get back to the good parts. Especially in dungeons and other sequences with several fights in a row. On the NSFW question, I really like that you combine erotic content with compelling story and characters. I could say that I came to TLS for the sex and stayed for the story, but that’s not quite it. I also stayed for the sex. The sex scenes are better because they’re about characters we care about. You seem to be worried that the story and erotic elements are acting at cross purposes to each other, but I think they make for a stronger whole together. So I would like to see more of that in your next big project. It certainly won’t be a deal breaker if it is SFW though. I’ve consistently enjoyed most of your stuff. If you said your next game was a lawn mowing simulator, I’d at least try it out.

Trisk

Hmm. For the first, I would recommend turning around your thought process: first find your project, then pick the engine that suits it. As you mentioned, RPG Maker is well suited to what you achieved with TLS. Renpy can't do the same thing easily, it is a VN Engine (and does those very well). You will always loose a big chunk of potential new players from the outset because of their prejudice against X, Y or Z. However, I think you will keep your core followers you have developed as long as your projects continue to be as attractive as they are. So focus on building up a really good concept, flesh it out, then pick your engine. No particular opinion on the NSFW question, would play your game either way. That is possibly something where the survey among us oldtimers won't help you much :) Interim project: More to the point: take your time for development before release of the next big one. You did so before Kingdom of Deception (which is, I think, where you also branched into Renpy). Many 0.1. releases do little to show the scope and feel of the later game because much of the games structure isn't even in place. Better work a few months on it before the release. Whether you want to fill the time with an interim project ontop of the other projects you usually have going on ... I wouldn't, but you are able to jugle projects to an extend I would never be able to, so maybe you could.

I've been thinking for a bit, and the most important factors for me are this: First, I appreciate the quality and consistency you produce. I'll be following you for those two factors regardless of any others as I have before--though now I have the ability to pay you for it. ;P Second, I had always appreciated the fact that you are able to portray and contrast healthy and unhealthy sexual relationships in games which is just so rare as to almost be extinct. I greatly support that type of media to the world and it would be sad to see that aspect go, but it's not a dealbreaker as far as following you as a creator. I understand wanting to branch out.

Reed R Gale

I've been reflecting further on the SFW vs. NSFW question since you last asked, and my position has evolved somewhat. I previously argued that since sex worked very well as a theme and device in TLS, there is no reason not to use it going forward. However, you are currently making a game with sex as a core theme. Unless you have another idea of how to explore it differently already in your head, making sex a main theme again runs the risk of rehashing what you've already explored. On the other end, if you choose to make your next project not have sex as a main theme, but still include a lot of sexual dialogue or scenes, then you risk having the sexual themes derail the story and feel shoehorned (a circumstance I definitely feel Ouroboros fell prey to). If you do decide to include NSFW content, then I would give it as much emphasis in the story as it actually has in the universe you build. I think you did that rather well in both Crimson Grays, where sex existed and was relevant to romantic relationships, but there was not very much NSFW content and those themes were very ancillary to the core themes of the narrative. If you don't feel like writing another game with sex as a main theme, and can't really imagine how sex could play a good storytelling role as a minor theme, then it would be better to exclude it entirely. I would definitely rather experience a SFW narrative where everything clicks together than a NSFW one where the sex just feels like it doesn't belong.

Jeffrey Lebowski

Thanks for sharing all your thoughts!

Sierra Lee

1: I see stigma with many engines which usually stems from the opening presentation. "Made with Unity" can be rather bad if the dev doesn't understand basic features that while the less powerful RPG Maker and Renpy offer by default such as Saving/Loading, in VNs the ability to Skip text along with a Gallery/Scene Replay, in RPGs such simple things as Inventory/Stats/Shops/NPCs, and if I see the defacto Game Config that is baked into Unity I know Controller Support is probably a fleeting dream... None of these engines has to be bad but the dev has to make an opening that clearly tells the player to leave their expectations at the door, for a comparison you might want to have a look at games like Nusakana with a custom Title Screen that uses the PC's System Time to change the Title so it has a Morning and Evening visual style with random characters displayed on screen and at first glance you might be surprised to know it was made with RPG Maker VX Ace, with Renpy you can get more complex RPG elements in it that was done with Four Elements Trainer which while the Animation might not be super smooth it does well while keeping the File Size in check, and Unity might have more power but it also requires more effort to tighten the experience not to mention the "Made with Unity" tramp stamp that comes with it unless you pay exorbitant amounts of money. 2: I prefer NSFW Content. For most Dating Sims it's rather funny when the end goal is the couple pair up with a kiss--- Roll Credits! Seems that if you go the NSFW route you can let your hair down an tell a few dirty jokes and have fun without worrying what might risk losing that Teen Rating were some censorship will go in "and smash and smash and smash" till all that's left is the pc friendly content. A for the Male/Female assumptions well assume makes an ass out of you and me, let someone fall into a cliche then try subverting their expectations as some of the funny moments in TLS are when something is expected then you have the choice to change that like Altina being the cliche slutty elf or the player can think if they want her to have a more romantic demeanor which comes from them actively engaging with the story. As for games that dug a niche and embrace it you might want to look at games like Monster Girl Quest Paradox work many fetish angles or Quest Failed. Once you have a more focused idea for a future game I'll be interested to hear it though let the idea come first and worry which tools are best for the job later else you might restrict your creativity on things all three engines can do (hell you can get mouse support in VX Ace and I've seen some rather creative nut job take MV and turn it into a VN Player that was just less impressive then Renpy). As for RPG Maker MV you might want to look at importing either XP Sprites or VX Ace Mac Sprites as the sprites for MV while better then Ace are still dwarfish and for sexy sprites the extra visual detail will effect player opinions as that is what the player sees first and the first then they will judge. Though the kid succubi in TLS are a nice touch, they are adorable! It's always nice when a dev goes out of their way to make the little details matter, lot's of games have NPC Signpost were they may look like characters but have as much personality as a wooden plank... Which is also why I enjoy the light jokes like that Bartender that yells about no more quest in the cellar lol it's really the small touches that help the world come to life.

Ditto

Sorry, but on my big list of budget priorities, I'm afraid sound design is relatively low. In my experience enjoyment of music is highly individual and it doesn't drive that much interest in the project. Plus, it's expensive. For the price of a single song I could get a ton of completely custom sprites or a uniquely coded game system.

Sierra Lee

For Ren'Py, my dependence on coders would depend on how many of the basic systems I could establish early. I'm capable enough to develop within frameworks that are already solid. Whether or not it's possible to create a game that's "adult" but not "porn" is an open question in my mind. Witcher and Dragon Age probably fall into that category, but they're also AAA studio RPGs.

Sierra Lee

You're correct: I have a passion for writing and game design, but in terms of programming I'm just someone who picked up some superficial familiarity. If I do try anything new, experimenting with a side project first is likely. If Jessika's Curse actually finishes it's engine, I'd seriously consider licensing it for a project. I've long wanted to create a Darkest Dungeon style game.

Sierra Lee

Yeah, that's the trade-off. One of the strengths of Patreon is that I'm not obligated to do just one, though.

Sierra Lee

Now that you mention that you have a budget Sierra, may i recommend hiring a good sounddesigner/ composer for TLS? If i had to think of my single greatest gripe with the game in it's current state it's the repetetive and slightly "budget"-like sound of many of the musical tracks in the game. It often sounds like the music in the game stems from a hundred different sources (which, of course, it does) but that means that the overall tone of the game can swing a bit much and subconsciously break the immersion of many players. For instance, travelling through Devil's Pass in Chapter 1, listening to basic dungeon RPG music, when it's interrupted by Hilstara's battle that uses completely different instruments and has an alltogether different feel to it. I'm not reffering to the tonal shift. It's an emotional moment, of course and the music should reflect that. But it feels like the music stems from 2 different sources, 2 different games and that can make the game feel it was made on a budget, which is an unfortunate feeling for the player to experience. TLS is a gigantic game, and that means that much of the music has to be reused. But the difference between using whatever assets you can find from the internet, and having a proffesional sound designer who creates music specialized for that specific location, moment or character is often what seperates a good indie game from a great indie game. And a great soundtrack can enhance the writing and turn a great game into a fantastic game. This is all for concideration of course. It's just a suggestion. But if you have some additional ressources left after paying the bills, artists and coders i think it could prove a great investment. As good as the New Givini Bank! And if you concider it to be too late in development to change previously used music, then maybe in future projects? :)

DankPotatoes

Some more detailed comments: @Engine: 1. RPG maker: if you want another game starting "immediately" and a project you can "do alone". I have seen a few games really using customs sprites, but there is just some limiting how much different a few pixels can look different. A blond girl wearing a blue dress and having red hair pins will kind of look similar, even if you have a new animation set. 2. RenPy: Looking at games like Seeds of Chaos or Sunrider you can include complex RPG elements into that engine. But I guess you'd be reliant on coders, since integrating custom stuff sounds a lot more coding intensive. 3. If you want to try some new, Unity might be a more challenging option. A quick Google for isometric RPG with unity gave this result: https://connect.unity.com/p/articles-what-i-learned-from-trying-to-make-an-isometric-game-in-unity So it sounds possible, but obviously you are going nowhere without a .NET (C#) programmer and you'd need to learn a total new way to implement sprites on a map. However Unity wouldn't restrict you to 2D, 2.5D but also allow 3D. Even if only for certain events or battle scenes (like FF7 has a low polygon isometric world and high polygon 3D battle screen). @NSFW: Seeing how porn games are not that healthy for human kind, considering an "adult game" but without "porn" element might be kind a compromise? Since TLS had text only scenes which could have easily be "censored" down to the erotic part and skipping the explicit details, I don't see it restricting you from any story direction. And the story and gameplay (there are so many fun RPG until the combat element is totally driving you nuts) definitely the key arguments in your games. Though there are also a few very tempting scenes I wouldn't mind being part of. ;) @Interim Project: Might be especially tempting, if you are actually considering a new engine. If the experience is bad and either progress or outcome is not to your and your players expecations, it would probably hurt both less, if the project ends a little sooner. The problem with the expectations for "new" games is something all new MMORPGs have to suffer. They are compared to games with 10 years of AAA content update... that's probably even worse for your new projects. It didn't hurt other smaler side projects of yours imho..

Markus S.

I don't think you should start a big project with a new engine. As I understand (please correct me if I'm wrong!), you are a writer first, a game designer second and a programmer a distant third. There's a huge gap between something like GameMaker or Ren'Py and a "real" game engine. Just look at how Jessika's Curse is struggling. If you think you are limiting your audience by using a "toy" engine, why not use a new engine for your interim project? This way you can gauge your strength without wading in too deep. As for NSFW content, I don't have anything specific to say. I do think that NSFW content in Ouroboros was superfluous, but I can't imagine TLS without lust metaphysics affecting every aspect of its world.

onodera

Your combination of great stories + NSFW content is one of your most unique advantages. Shifting towards SFW would widen your potential audience, but at the same time you would be facing competition from a much bigger market. Ultimately its about what you want to create, not what others think you should create. As others have suggested, having a NSFW patch or something similar is always an option.

Krag

Depending on some core choices, my next project would probably involve more custom art. I actually have a budget now, so I'd like to take a step upward in that regard. But it does have the potential to slow down development.

Sierra Lee

There seems to be a vocal minority in support of that option. Not sure, but I could still do it as a side project sometime!

Sierra Lee

Thanks for your input!

Sierra Lee

Yup, there will definitely be a results post. The thing is, you're more right than you know: the concept will be a decisive factor in engine/NSFW questions. I don't want to do ideas where the NSFW content is so little integrated that you could take or leave it. On the other hand, I have too many ideas. So my approach is to choose specific constraints and then pick the idea that perfectly matches those.

Sierra Lee

It's a mix. Getting NSFW assets is always a major cost and I usually need to wait on the artists involved, but it wouldn't slow down overall development too much.

Sierra Lee

Yeah, I don't actually know how popular tactical RPGs are, I just think it would be a fun change of pace. A games/writing split is possible. My NSFW games have developed a community I really value, while my NSFW writing has been somewhat profitable but not received an in-depth response. Thank you for your long term support and faith in me!

Sierra Lee

Thank you for the kind words! Though I don't always succeed, I do try to take a mature approach to various topics from different angles. Regardless of the approach of my future work, I'll do my best in that regard. I agree that only certain genres work well for extensive storytelling. I do have an idea for a platformers, but that's much more of an Ouroboros-style experiment than an extended story.

Sierra Lee

I'm personally for more NSFW stuff because you write it so well. I'm also in favour of another rpgmaker game because renpy doesn't seem suitable for expansive story telling with many varied consequences, unless you really want to do a VN. Other engines would probably require a dedicated coder, so you'd need to start an actual dev team. Would the next long term project include art, or be just text again? I don't mind either way, but I'd imagine there would be longer delays waiting for art. I suppose you could do something like Seeds of Chaos, have some text scenes and every month do a poll for which scenes patrons would like cg for, out of a maximum.

MadChemist19

I would lowkey love a Sierra- Fire Emblem clone

DankPotatoes

Firstly I lean towards RPG Maker but have no particular hard choices Secondly, I found you because of the nsfw angle but I've followed all of your other works you've already caught me with your talent/skill as an author. So while I lean towards nsfw I'd be fine either way. Lastly, sounds good? I quite liked Ouroboros after all.

Treant Balewood

Will you make a post showing the results later? I think if you (eventually) told us a little the concept for your next project everyone would have a clearer opinion on which engine to use or whether it should be NSFW or not.

SamuraiJosh

I found that on 1 question I couldn't give the answer I wanted (talking about the survey). The SFW vs NSFW question, I like your nsfw stuff but I would definitely still play a nsfw game by you. However I would love an add-on which turns on/adds nsfw content. I'm not sure how feasible that is though as that would probably slow down development and I would NOT like that at all.

A1llas

I would love to see a SRPG (Final Fantasy Tactics is one of my favorite games) but I'm sure there is not going to be much love for that so I don't really care about the engine as long as you feel confident in being able to tell your story in that medium. As far as NSFW vs SFW I voted for max porn, because I think you are a valuable voice in this niche (as well as being an excellent writer). Your comment about trying to be a romance writer who went against the grain and it not working did strike home (paraphrasing here) - the NSFW crowd is terribly judgmental and impulsive from what I have seen, so I get this. I would prefer to see the SFW work be in your novels/novellas and the NFSW be in the games, because there's lot's of intelligent smut in novels but little in games But at the end of this, I'll just say that I believe in you. I've been a Patreon for a very long time, bought almost all of your games and novels, and while I've never experienced each one of them equally what I do know is that you care about them. And this matters to me. There's a lot of shit out there, but I would never, ever, think you would remake TLS into, for example, a Ren'py game with good art assets to make a fast buck. So do what feels right to you. It's worked for me so far.

Retromancer

So... little bit of background... I discovered The Last Sovereign accidentally while searching for hints for the Crimson Gray games. (Purchased from Nutaku, and I love this series.) I would easily rank The Last Sovereign among the best digital RPGs of all time, along with games like PS:T and The Thousand Year Door. Sometimes, I get the feeling that all video games are designed for 12 year olds. T-rated games are for normal 12 year olds, M-rated games are for 12 year olds with permissive parents, and AO-rated games are for 12 year olds with stolen credit cards. TLS (and Crimson Gray) are some of the only games I've ever seen that actually handle "mature themes" with any kind of actual maturity. I'm here for the story, any story you write... but what drew me to your stories in the first place is the adulthood of your adultery. I do feel like the loss of the NSFW content would be a real loss. As far as game type and game engine concerns... it seems to me like only RPGs or possibly really intricate VNs are going to have the storytelling potential I'd want. I'm okay with RPGMaker, but I have a bit of a preference for more tactical combat engines; the main advantage for RPGMaker, for me, is that I find the difficulty curve of TLS unpleasant and RPGMaker makes it easy to cheat.

I'm not a fan of gameplay that's mostly jumping through hoops either, so I'd try to do more with Ren'Py if I did take that path. >I also greatly enjoyed Desecration of Wings and I don't think it would be quite the same without the NSFW component. Yeah, I do try to tell stories where the NSFW component is an important aspect. Stepping away from that path would close off certain options, though it would also open up others. >I'd enjoy another interim project, and I'll make no secret of the fact that I'd love to see more of that monster girl story, explicit or not. I still have passion for that concept, but I'm not sure if it's to be...

Sierra Lee

I did consider a potential balance that would be more like mainstream RPGs, just with less softcore sex scenes. The deep integration of the sexual content in TLS was one of the things that interested me, though, and I wonder if this wouldn't still turn off people looking for a NSFW experience.

Sierra Lee

On the engine; I only really have gripes about Renpy "games" where it's just a lot of clicking around (click to travel to location, click to talk to guy, click to pick dialogue option, learn he has nothing new to say, click to go back, click to go to a different location etc. etc.) While much of that is an issue with overall design (long paths with dead-ends) rather than purely on the engine, past experiences have soured me a bit on Renpy in general. I would love to see an SRPG but I understand those can be rather tricky. On NSFW; I like adult themes in media. I was initially drawn to TLS because of how it was presented, and enjoyed the well-written scenes, and even now where my interest is mostly in the story I still enjoy the jokes and comments made throughout. I also greatly enjoyed Desecration of Wings and I don't think it would be quite the same without the NSFW component. Overall I would prefer that there would still be an NSFW element. I see no real issue with toning down on explicit "scenes" but I'm wary of the idea of changing a solid formula to appeal to an audience that might as well have just used the games' sexual elements as an excuse rather than a reason. Maybe I just have trouble wrapping my head around the mentality of refusing a product you would otherwise enjoy for such details. Honestly, Game of Thrones became one of the most popular series out there and it's rather explicit, so I can't help but doubt the sincerity of people who reject your work on that basis. I'd enjoy another interim project, and I'll make no secret of the fact that I'd love to see more of that monster girl story, explicit or not.

Censuur

I think nsfw content can be accepted in an RPG, although not to the level of TLS. Many mainstream RPGs have had sex and romance, even if it’s usually minimal. I really think games could stand to be less afraid of adult topics. I’m reminded of Cyberpunk 2077’s transgender advertisements and casual nudity, and how they mostly just made people more interested in the game. And IMO the somewhat controversial sexual topics like gender identity and kinks can make for really interesting stories. I think what turns people off (ironically) to TLS are the pornographic elements, not the presence of succubi. Regardless, you’re great at what you do and I’ll trust whatever creative decisions you end up making!

Yeah, it's a tricky tradeoff. Thanks for your input!

Sierra Lee

I appreciate your long term support! I agree that it's unfortunate that the line is drawn as sharply as it currently is, but that seems to be the shape of things.

Sierra Lee

Thanks for the input!

Sierra Lee

Thanks! I like how we have people drawn in from a number of different projects.

Sierra Lee

I'm certainly glad that some people enjoy my niche, and I intend to occupy it with TLS to the best of my ability. ^-^ In any case, I know that many people feel similarly to you, though not all, so I hope the poll gives a reasonably accurate representation of the Patreon.

Sierra Lee

Yeah, this is valid - TLS would unquestionably not have gotten attention as a standard RPG (though a SFW version wouldn't really have been possible). However, I don't think it's accurate to say I'm a big fish in a small pond, it's more like a moose in a small pond (ie technically in the pond but not a very good fish). I feel that many of the things I care about are at best orthogonal to what the genre at large cares about.

Sierra Lee

Thanks for giving your thoughts! As you noted, there's tradeoffs in every direction, so I'll have to make the decision I think is best. Getting everyone's thoughts is useful, though.

Sierra Lee

Yeah, I do my best with the cast I planned, but there's just a limit to how much development you can give in a limited space and how many people players will care about. I'm aiming to make the best TLS I can, even if the plan of TLS has some limitations. >For a likely uselessly outlandish suggestion I would be interested in a game with core gameplay similar to third person rpgs like the Witcher/Dark Souls. Haha, yeah, that's pretty far beyond my budget and capabilities. Thank you for sharing your thoughts, though!

Sierra Lee

Engine Choice: I think you summed up the tradeoffs pretty well. RPG Maker does have a negative reputation in some circles, but Ren'Py seems too limited, and Unity or other more advanced engines would almost certainly hinder your ability to release timely updates. For me personally, I really enjoy being able to check back in on TLS every month or so to see what happens next, so anything that holds back your release schedule would be a negative in my book. An SRPG Studio game definitely seems like it could be cool as a palate cleanser after TLS wraps up! NSFW Content: This one is trickier. I like that TLS doesn't shy away from adult topics, and I don't have an issue with sex scenes being in the game. But ultimately, it's the world-building, character-building, and party relationships that keep me coming back to TLS, and I don't think NSFW content is strictly necessary for any of those elements to shine. Like you say, having more substantial male characters, and fewer romanceable women, could be nice to see. And shirking the porn label would probably create more space for LGBTQ characters to exist, which would be extremely refreshing. But really, the strongest argument for going SFW is that folks could recommend your games to their friends. TLS is easily one of the best WRPGs of the decade as far as I'm concerned, but there's tons of people that'll never give it a chance because it's got a boob in it. There's nothing wrong with being niche, of course, but opening your games up to a wider audience could be cool too.

smurf

Apologies for being late, my phone died over the weekend while I was away from home so I've been unable to offer any opinion. Helpfully, my opinion mostly boils down to "I'm here because I respect you and your work, and want to support you." so wherever you're going, I'll be happy to observe. My only comment might be about the NSFW angle. I like erotica... when it's well done and fitting. I dislike when a story is curtailed because it must remain SFW, but I also dislike when a story goes out of its way to cater unnaturally to perversion. The story is the most important aspects for me, the lore. Sex is a part of life (at least, I remember it being so... >.>) so should it be a natural development, I like seeing it. Doesn't always mean it has to be deep and soulful, it just has to be appropriate and hopefully, most of the time fun. I stated a preference for NSFW, but that vote goes with the above caveat. Write in as much as you think benefits your work.

EG Douglas

Have not made any progress in TLS, it doesn't have as strong of a hook at the start for me. But Ouroboros is one of my all time favorites, so going for the same sort of interesting structure and story would be great! It would be much harder for me to be interested in a SFW story. The NSFW elements are a major motivator to invest time, instead of playing a AAA game. That said, I like to think I would have played Ouroboros without them.

Anonymous Profile

One thing I found myself frustrated with a certain class of SFW games is the abundance of allusions and innuendos that never go anywhere to keep the rating down. But on the other end of the spectrum are NSFW games that feel that because they can show sex and nudity, the only mechanism for engagement with the audience is to show sex and nudity. TLS hit a niche that I didn't know that I wanted until I played it, something that could include adult content without being constrained to being just a fetishization vehicle. But for as much as I enjoy it, I have a hard time finding a way to sell the experience to people I know in real life. First the stigma of bearing the NSFW flag means I need to gauge the other person, and whether or not bringing up something NSFW would be appropriate. Then, the conversation usually starts with 'It's a porn game, but...' As much as I think the porn is integral to the experience of TLS, I would sooner drop the porn and take the rest of the game than I would take the porn and remove the characters and story. To that end I would love to see what a SFW game made by you is like. I think the audience you've cultivated is not looking to use your games as a vehicle for smut, and having a SFW project makes something that is easy to talk about and recommend in public without having to worry about how the other people will take it. And I agree that RPG Maker has a stigma that seems impossible to overcome. I've just heard too many comments of people that refuse to touch anything made in the engine, even when they're looking to play something indie made. I would not mind it, and I think your core audience would be fine with another RPG Maker game, but the growth potential will also be limited by the stigma regardless of the game's contents.

Innocuous

Regarding the N/SWF choice -- while I understand the major downside of having TLS viewed as adult game in people avoiding the game who might otherwise have played and enjoyed it, I think there is also an upside to consider; that is, I think TLS gets a lot more attention then it otherwise would by virtue of being among the best adult games of its kind. Of course I am not saying that the game would not stand on its merits even without the NSFW content, but its direct competition as a game currently consists of other adult games of which only a handful are even remotely good. Take away TLS's image as an adult game and it's competing for attention with many other quality games such as CrossCode, Ara Fell, To the Moon, Finding Paradise, LISA, Yume Nikki, and the list just goes on. I guess it comes down to whether it is better to be the lone big fish in a small pond full of minnows or instead to be one big fish in a large pond with many other big fish. Anyway, that's just my 2c, and for my own part I would probably play your next game with or without NSFW content, though I would slightly prefer that the NSFW content remain. It may well be that you have already built up enough of a reputation as a game designer from TLS that you next game would still receive a decent amount of attention notwithstanding a lack of NSFW content.

Drifted

I'd love to be able to honestly feed your optimism about the potential of NSFW as a legitimate genre, but I personally can't: while I love TLS, at the same time I do generally prefer my porn games to be focused on the jerk-off material and the build up to it. It's certainly both possible and welcome for a NSFW game to be a great game regardless of its erotic content, but if I sit down to play a NSFW game, that erotic content is what I'm mainly interested in.

Hund

1. Regarding the engine: I personally do not care but you are right - there is a negative stigma associated with rpgmaker. Of the options you have mentioned I only know of Renpy and I do not think it is a good option for you - renpy is designed for visual novels and it does that well. But it was not designed for complex games and I dont think making something like TLS in it is a good idea. 2. As for the nsfw scenes - I really dont care so I put neutral in the survey. While I did not mind the nsfw content I do not think it added a lot to TLS. Well done nsfw content can add a lot to the story and while nsfw content in TLS is not bad it feels unnecessary at times and I dont know what I think of it. As for having it in your next big project - I wouldnt mind either way as long as the story is good and the scope is as big as TLS. On one hand making it SFW might increase your audience however on the other hand most of your current audience found your game because it was NSFW and removing adult content might alienate them.

I definitely see how the size of the cast can be problematic to some degree as from my point of view Varia and Aka or even Altina could have potentially been combined into 1 character and personally I wouldn't have felt a considerable loss. And more development and focus on male characters such as Geoff would have made his sacrifice more impactful, similarly getting to know the Zirantian king would have made his death far more shocking. There are issues with the game but I still love it and find it to be far above other nsfw games I have played. In regard to the survey I have a preference for nsfw but I will follow your work regardless. And I have no problem with you doing any number of interim projects especially if it allows you to experiment with different engines. I don't see Renpy/VN format as viable for a project the scale of TLS but honestly I have only and end user's understanding of the limitations of a given engine, just experience playing many that seem very limited. If there aren't SERIOUS limitations on SRPG I would be interest in a Fire Emblem clone over more RPGM as I have really been enjoying Three Houses but as I previously stated I have little conception of how limited various engines are. For a likely uselessly outlandish suggestion I would be interested in a game with core gameplay similar to third person rpgs like the Witcher/Dark Souls. I have many problems with both of those game series though, the Witcher doesn't really do anything interesting with its open world and the combat becomes very repetitive with access to a single character who employs largely identical sword attacks in almost all situations. Dark Souls has level design that so many other fans evangelize as perfect while it obfuscates the path forward and many other questionable level design choices, gameplay that too often focuses on avoiding rather than fighting enemies, and very little in the way of story. And while Souls has better ranged/magic combat than the Witcher it still comes across as an afterthought. I also find the implementation of multiplayer in the Souls games to be a tragic mistake, at its height it rewarded cheesy gameplay like backstab fishing and parry spamming, and now it ultimately locks many features and some of the best spells/weapons behind insane grinds as the player base is dead. I understand that procuring the funds necessary to develop on a more sophisticated engine would be aided by some level of multiplayer inclusion though. I wish I could offer more informed feedback but as a consumer I have little insight into the challenges a developer faces, if nothing else I hope you understand how much trust you have earned by developing content of the quality you have.

Grey Wolf

Thanks for giving your thoughts on this. I think the world would probably be better if more people had that attitude regarding NSFW content, but I'm afraid a lot of people react strongly to adult content. In any case, thank you for your support!

Sierra Lee

Some other people have raised this issue as well, and I agree that there's a question of what is cart and what is horse. To me, it's a question of figuring out which engines I can effectively develop in right now, then choosing from among the ideas that are well-suited to them. That's one of the reasons I'm asking this question so early, before I've settled on any specific idea.

Sierra Lee

Actually, since I own both I could easily replace the MV sounds with the VX Ace ones. Truthfully, though, if I wanted to get a more unique feel within MV, replacing all the SFX would be a priority, because they're so familiar. TLS was one angle on deconstruction, and I actually had quite a few others in mind, it's just a question of the environment. In any case, games that react to player choices in complex ways are something that interests me deeply, so you can count on more.

Sierra Lee

Thanks for the feedback! Though I think there are issues with any amount of NSFW content making the whole game NSFW (since society can be pretty prudish), I will definitely integrate adult content in different ways. TLS was aiming for one integration, but there are other aims that I might explore.

Sierra Lee

My thoughts on this still havent changed including my conflicting feeling on N/SFW. I voted for preferring NSFW but really I'm not sure I'd have chosen the same yesterday or tomorrow.

Troqu

I have enjoyed your books, TLS, and Ouroboros. I first discovered you when looking for NSFW games with good gameplay / story. TLS came very highly recommended from various forums for its excellent story. I played through what was done at that time and was hooked, so I went to your patreon to support its completion. Afterwards, I bought Ouroboros on steam and played it without the NSFW patch and still enjoyed the game. So, I thought it might be interesting if instead of making NSFW games with SFW versions you make SFW games with NSFW versions. The whole reason I started getting into NSFW games and books was because I got tired of the barrier to the content that being "SFW" imposes on any media. So instead of worrying about whether or not to make NSFW content I would prefer if you made content that you think would be good and then if NSFW situations would naturally occur in a story then don't shy away from it. Regardless, I enjoy the things you have made so far and have no plans to stop supporting you even if the next thing you make isn't as enjoyable to me.

About engines, I think there is one other thing to consider. As a programmer, I've noticed how the way my colleagues solve problems strongly correlates with what programming languages and environments they are used to. When some idea is hard to represent within a familiar framework, people tend to mentally mark the idea itself "hard" or "problematic", so ideas risk getting thrown away or strongly altered even before they are properly considered. I don't know how much of a problem is this for you, but the way I see it there are things RPGMaker does good and there are things it does... worse than actual programming difficulty would imply. I think it would be a good idea to try and do things with another relatively "freeform" engine and only then consider what engine to use for the next big project. It's not about stigmata, but if you were to choose RPGMaker in the end, I would prefer it to be on the grounds of "this is the most fitting engine for the idea I have, all things considered" and not "this is the most fitting engine for me to work with, so now I should figure out how to implement my idea with it". If that makes sense.

Oleg Larikov

I'm probably a fish swimming against the current when it comes to my fondness for RPGmaker NSFW games, and VX Ace over MV in particular. I don't know what it is but the sprites just feel too big and the sounds I've just come to dislike. If MV is way easier for you to use I wouldn't begrudge you for using it over Ace. I'll miss my campy chest opening sfx though. On the subject of for or against NSFW I'm a somewhat unsure. a lot of TLS is built around being a deconstruction of what you'd see in most NSFW games so much so that if the game wasn't it would be a huge detriment. But at the same time when I compare it to some of the other games you've made like Ourobours and Desecration of Wings, TLS being on the more softer side in the total amount of porn to gameplay ratio is more preferable to me at least, though that might just be because those are shorter games and require a larger ratio of sex as a result. If it came to the question of sex or no sex in the next game then I'd vote in favor of sex, as long as it's not being forced to be part of the game. Free based western made porn games are very limited genre and when it actually see light in common circles it's often for being accused of being cheap asset flips, I would honestly disapprove if the next game wasn't NSFW based, It's an underdeveloped genre but I've seen a lot of the benefits in the games you've made. You say you don't want the next game to just be TLS with a different story and I agree what i want isn't TLS with a different story. What I want for the next game is a different story but with TLS mechanics, the way choices interact and cause ripples and minor comments. Most things being a resource to be pondered and weighted, as long as that feeling is preserved then I'd be happy with whatever game comes out of it, player interaction should remain key.

aosdh

honestly i play your games because the story is fantastic AND it includes sex as a theme. if you were to remove the NSFW content from your stuff it would lose a lot of what makes your games so great compared to the sea of other story games and worlds. the adult topics are great, being an adult i want mature themes as well as sexual situations. Right now you are making games that happen to have Porn in them, the vast majority of the game is exactly that, a game. Maybe you could go from the current type of "hardcore" sexual experience with full described sex scenes, to a more "Softcore" adult experience that steps a bit back but still keeps the overall adult feel?

FloppyEvil

While those ideas were chosen for that poll based in part on Redd's input, yes, I'll be taking those results into account as well.

Sierra Lee

Thanks for your feedback! Originally there were more people obliquely referencing my NSFW content on the Sarah Lin side, but I've been surprised by how much that has disappeared. They both seem to be moving along mostly separately.

Sierra Lee

I was gonna add my two cents but this fine individual above put it all down for me.

When looking at TLS, I tend to separate two types of nsfw influences. The large textual sex scenes. And the more general use of sex as theme, flavor and world building element. The sex scenes are... fine. But the rest of it, that's what makes TLS a standout title in a sea of adult games. The various assumptions of "normality" in the Orgasmic Empire are some of my favorite parts of the game. If anything, I'd love to see you double down on that. Explore actual grown up adult relationships, sex included, in depth. Play more with the various tropes of the subgenre. I think you're right that the general nsfw market isn't all into that, but me personally? Totally into that. And I suspect I'm not alone among your patrons. Regarding engines, if you are going to go the Unity route, make sure you start out with (another) small project. It's a great engine but it has some serious gotchas that are often best learned by experience. Frankly, unless you're bored with RPGM and want to move on from it, I don't see much reason to change engines. Unity gets a lot of hate in nsfw circles too. And I agree that the market favorite ren'py doesn't sound like it'll suite your preferred game style. So, if those are the only options on the table, I say stick with the engine your comfortable with.

I love your nsfw content, and I'd be sad to see you turn away from it, but if you feel that it's hampering your work then just do you.

Red Viking

A few months ago you've posted a poll asking people to vote on ideas for future projects. Will any of those results be used for whatever comes after TLS?

Fake Name

Appreciate the kind words! I'll keep making the best games I can. ^-^

Sierra Lee

Thanks for your feedback! The only thing about optional NSFW is that for a lot of people, it's still fully NSFW, plus you can't have it deeply integrated into the game.

Sierra Lee

I love you work, Sierra. I got into your work thanks to The Last Sovereign, but Ouroboros, Crimson Grey, and Desecration of Wings are all gems. The NSFW / SFW debate is difficult. I quite enjoy most of the sexual content in your games - though some of the dubcon / noncon stuff in a couple of your games is not, personally, my cup of tea. I have gushed about your games to friends, but have never recommended them because of the NSFW content. A friend of mine recently discovered the Sarah Lin books - Changing Faces went viral on Reddit, apparently - and I held my tongue and didn't mention that Sarah Lin also makes really classy eroge. Doing more SFW stuff would, I think, help widen your audience, and might even get more eyes on your NSFW games, as the SFW content would create trust in your as an author/creator to handle the NSFW themes well. On the other hand, sometimes I'm horny and you write erotica good. Bottom line, I'm going to keep following your games, whatever direction you go in, though with the important caveat that whatever you produce be Mac compatible. VX can be emulated. MV can be compiled to run native on Mac. Ren'PY also good.

Dream Fractal

Thanks for your feedback! I know some people definitely feel the same, but I wanted to give everyone a chance to give their opinion anonymously. Really hard to say what an interim project would bring, but I'll keep everyone here up to date.

Sierra Lee

Don't Save the Princess? It's still coming, but I've been waiting on the artist and programmer. The new version of the two world demo (with two more CGs added) is in theory coming out yet this year - they just need to finish up a few things. If I did go with RPG Maker again, I'd certainly investigate the current state of plugins and see how much could be done to give my next project a unique feel.

Sierra Lee

As long as you make well written games with novel mechanics I'll support you. I have a preference for NSFW content because no one else blends quality story, mechanics and wholesome NSFW content like you do. I really appreciate how your characters are well rounded people, not just masturbation material. Your relationships are non standard and challenge norms, your characters unafraid of their own sexuality. This is something that means a lot to me. I don't care what engine you use, provided it suits the project you want to make. Risk taking is fine and you have financial support to fix coding if required.

James

Will stick around for anything you make after TLS. Neutral on NSFW content because I want everyone to be able to enjoy it; would like it to be optional (patch / DLC / turn on in options). Not a fan of visual novels, would like to see you make something different than TLS gameplay wise (like an tactical / strategy RPG for instance).

Thriceborn

One thing I definitely want to see is SFW content. It's just a huge shame that I can't openly promote your work for the SFW elements. Don't get me wrong, I think the NSFW was masterfully integrated into TLS and doesn't weaken it as a game, but my favorite parts are the cool large scale story and politics and economic stuff in a fantasy setting. That's what I personally want to see more of. As for engine and interim project... it depends. My suggestion is to do an interim project as a trial run of working with a real team under you. Either from your own funds if you have enough for an actual fulltime committed programmer and artist (and maybe publicist because you seem to have to deal with that a lot and hate it) or by partnering with a larger game studio. SFW means entering the mainstream, and you're bringing with you a broad portfolio and fanbase, I can't imagine it would be that hard to find a willing partner. Paying is fine. I wouldn't commit to more than a medium project with them to try, but if you want to scale up your creative endeavors leading a team seems inescapable.

Ezzie

I work with RPG Maker MV, and I must say Yanfly plugins are free and help A LOT on different types of gameplay. What about that Jumperman Game? I am into your writting in general, but sometimes doing something silly is also cool. PS: I was really interested in that game. : P

StalkerRoguen

Good point.

James

I filled out the survey, but just thought you might want to also ask another question - how much people are willing to stick around after TLS is finished. Although I have preferences (I dislike rpg maker and prefer nsfw content), I'm willing to stick around for whatever you choose to make next, regardless of type and genre.