Echos Chapter 7

Claude was a really awesome character during menkalla and seeing him have a moment a growth while getting a better look at the guilds society was an awesome read. I look forward to him potentially joining Matt, Liz and Aster as an ally on the war front to push back a massive attack

David Jenkins

One Echo I was expecting to hear about was Driver from Guild Duel Stars. Matt absolutely stated he would be settling a score once he hit 25. Due to Driver not controlling the Tier 9 who suppressed him.

Xarow

Interessting that the ghost was able to corrupt a talent. But I don't think that the Talent is changed. The ghost implemented somehow that her ideal state is when she got that injurie.

Zadar Thule

You know he’s going to be MLA’s nemesis.

Richard Loveless

Pretty sure we never actually got her real name when we first met her. But I think she was the Pather whose talent let her heal from nearly any injury (basically come back from near death). She was one of the top ranked fighters in the tier 10 tournament.

Adam Fellon

Who is Lienne again. I can’t seem to remember who she is.

Richard Loveless

Holy s__t, the DARK side of state-based/temporal regeneration... If something messes up your "template", you are SCREWED.

KnightRider007

Long Zhiyuan has a seeker like intent that helps with planning and firesight probably, fits really well with his style and talent. Now all that is missing is Han De

Jonas Jalad

Hard to say what they did and didn't offer. She seems very bitter currently, and we don't have the other side of the story. Either way, it's definitely a tragic story. One that I hope we get to revisit with a happier end.

Drew H.

One we will agree to disagree In parts. One yes I agree it is advance or fall/die. Safety was never a guarantee. 100% agree. The manager I am going to disagree on. The army can't fully say unless I know what the contract states. Difference between a soldier and a slave. One is acceptable, one isn't. Plus I was mot referring to Matthew being a soldier but rather a mana battery for the army to use at it sees fit. Basically his fear in minkalla. Plus heck yeah it could be used for propaganda. Do you think propaganda is truthful and looks at nuance? Anything can be true from a certain point of view and propaganda only tells rhe point of view they want you to see. Look at it this way, young people deciding on guild vs path. They let them know about liana's story and slightly twist it to fit their needs. Then people who would of joined the path, possibly the next ascender(s) don't and instead join a guild that doesn't agree with Manny or worse is a guild from an enemy foreign power that just stole an almost ascender or an ascender and made them an enemy. Thats not to mention maybe the manager was a spy and this was a set up to get liana to turn against the empire. Can think of a certain federation leader that would love to promise her a cure for her problems, only to turn her into one of her mind controlled slaves. That would be very bad. So yeah, small picture, without knowing exactly what was in the contract, I would agree with you. Big picture this could be a festering wound that could, at minimum, lead to a weakening of the empire, if not contribute to its destruction. It's always the little things that have the most impact, because they lewd to the big things. That's what I was getting at with my first post. That they may regret this because it can be used to make more problems for the empire very easily.

Bob Bryan

The Path is a gamble where you either die, advance quickly or drop out with a large medical bill. People might not know what they are getting into when they originally join but by Tier 15? They should know exactly what it's like. The Path itself does not cover healing. It never has. Pathers get priority healing over ordinary delvers but they still need to pay for that themselves. Lienna wasn't able to afford it which knocked her off the Path. This was a risk that she knew and accepted. Her manager left because she was no longer on the Path. Again this is known and accepted since the manager is a benefit provided by being on the Path. The military wouldn't heal her unless she joined the military. Again this is expected and entirely reasonable. So yes, if Matt had found himself in a similar situation and the Empire treated him in a similar manner, refusing to give him handouts and instead requiring him to join before he gains access to the benefits, then I would be ok with that because that is reasonable. My only complaint would be that it doesn't sound like a very interesting story. Regarding the manager, they are there to help her gain as much strength as possible by arranging training and helping to acquire rare hard to find resources. They do not arrange Rift slots unless they want to test their charges or they feel that their charge is slacking off. They do not promise safety. Moreover, at Tier 15 on the Path Lienna would be in her sixties to seventies and would have been delving for most of her life. She would understand her own strength and she would understand the risks inherent in delving a rift four tiers above herself. Doubly so if it had been arranged as a test. She was not forced to enter that Rift. She was experienced enough to judge the dangers for herself and she decided to take the risk. It was her choice. And they didn't abandon her because she didn't sell herself to the military. Like I said, the military isn't a charity. They offer healing to all their soldiers as a basic part of military service but if you aren't part of the military then you aren't eligible for it. And since Pathers are civilian delvers she wasn't eligible. It's that simple. Once she rejected the military they left her at a hospital where she could arrange medical care on her own. As any other civilian delver would be expected to do. There is nothing for critics to use because the Empire has done nothing wrong. They provided the promised benefits while she was on the Path and they did not treat her any differently than any civilian delver in the Empire when she was injured. At worst, they offered her a predatory contract which she was not forced to accept and was free to reject. And even that isn't certain because Lienna is an unreliable narrator. But I think it's clear that we are both seeing things differently. If you still disagree after reading through the above then I can only say agree to disagree.

JauPim

1 trusting her manager is now hee fault. We need to know a bit more if she chose that or if her manager pushed her after saying she got this. One would be more on her, one the manager. 2 we don't know how long said contract was for. Her being bound a few years vs being bound 100 centuries are different. Plus, i honestly feel if they would have healed her first and then offered her a resonable contract, i feel she would of taken it. How would matt of reacted if they offered to heal him but only if they let him be used as a battery for them for a few centuires. Would you still be on board for that? Finally this can and probably will be used as propaganda against the empire and the path. She was a very promising recruit and they abandonded her as soon as she became worthless and wouldn't sell herself to emanual and his military dogs. You don't think that's what enemies and critics of the path won't use against them. No nuance will be included. That's more what i meant by saying they will regret this. They turned an asset into a spy for the enemy, a net negative. Civilizations aren't destroyed by one event. It's events like that happen hundreds, thousands, millions of times that add up each time until whatever civilization dies. Happened to literally every civilization on earth. If you do not learn the lessons of the past, you are destined to fall to them.

Bob Bryan

@Bob Byran Except that isn't the situation here. Delving is dangerous and injuries that occur while delving are not covered by the Empire and have to be paid for by the delver. Lienna would know this. She was going solo on the Path, which meant her delves would be more dangerous. Lienna would know this. She was injured while delving four tiers up. We do not know who selected the Rift but it was entirely her choice to delve it. If she felt that it was too dangerous then she could have delved a different Rift or just quit the Path. Lienna would know this. She chose to delve and was injured so she has to shoulder the medical costs. This is entirely fair because this is exactly what she agreed to. She knew the risks and decided to continue. As for the military being the only option or trying to use the healing to force her into a contract. They aren't. The military is not a charity, nor are they responsible for her healing. They offered her a contract which would have included healing had she accepted it, basically the same sort of health insurance package that the US military offers its soldiers. She did not accept it. The military isn't the only place to get the level of healing she needs. The various guilds, corporations and noble houses of the Empire likely also have healers on this level or could pay for one. But they are not charities either and she rejected their offers because she did not want to work for them. So she is now left with two options. One, she can wait for an actual charity or a philanthropist healer to heal her. This is naturally going to take time. Two, she can pay for her own healing. This is what she is currently saving for. She is complaining that the private healers only take upfront payments, except that is just how businesses work. The way I see it, she wants to be independent but have the health care that large organisations provide to their delving teams. And she is then complaining that she can't have that.

JauPim

No Sidestory tag

Alexander Hallonblad

I think part of that is the fact that fight scenes are, perhaps, the weakest point of this story. Not to say they are bad by any means, but that Mantis seems to be much better at world building, making interesting characters, etc. And a war arc is always going to involve a lot of fighting. It doesn't exactly help that Mantis set up this "world" so that fighting styles get progressively more complicated as people advance. There are ever more skills, talents, and Domain effects to keep track off and utilize in fights instead of being able to focus on a set of key or fixed abilities. And I think you can see that in how MLA have been written in recent fights: Liz has clones, Aster debuffs opponents, and the majority of time has to be spent on Matt because his whole shtick is having enough mana to endlessly use skills. Liz and Aster have been simplified down to a single aspect/role because there's not enough time/mental capacity to flesh out their abilities at this point.

Matt H

There's always an exception especially in a universe as big as this one

Anime Problem

even an Ascender needs to serve thousands of year in the military only for the privilege of finishing the Path. The Empire did invest much in every person on the Path like a tier 40+ manager or the tax breaks for high lvl trainer. So when someone get injured so hard that only the best healers can fix it a service in the military until Ascension is a cheap deal.

Magnuss

It doesn't read to me like her manager dropped her after her injury. As I read it, her manager left her after she left the Path, which always happens. She turned down military recruitment and kept delving on her own, which is when the injury happened. If she'd been on the Path when injured, she probably would have gotten the priority for medical care due to the Path. Her view is very one sided, and she probably was offered some restrictive contracts, but the Empire's military recruitment seems pretty good based on other soldiers we've seen, with contribution points to fund tiering up, training, and gear that is hard to get at higher tiers.

adam1

Based on past descriptions of society, it doesn't sound like anyone is "independent" of the Great Powers, as much as there are people who don't really participate in society once they're high level. But the resources needed to get to that point means that they would have needed to delve/have jobs/etc and interact with one of the powers as they worked to tier up.

adam1

You remember the deadpool moviemake. Would you agree with that statement if that was the contract. Heck what if America had the cure for cancer but you had to sign up for the military to get it. How do you think that would go. She honestly might of had no problems joining the military if it was her choice. Instead they tried forcing her and it backfired tremendously. So if what they did was in that vein then I actually they deserve a lot more blame because they should have known alot better that it would not have worked.

Bob Bryan

The Clans motivation confuses me a bit in that the former leader made a treaty for the Empire to protect them if they were attacked in the war. It just seems that with their recent loss in power it would be much smarter to let that protection stand rather then join in on attacking the Empire atleast untill its shown the Empire to have been weakened enough to make it feasiible

Havokk

I would disagree that the manager threw her away. The Path is basically a recruitment drive for the military. You join, the Empire gives you discounts on rift slots and training, not to mention the prizes for the Pather tournament, and then once you fall off the Path you join some branch of the military to pay them back. It's not official but the further you make it and the more they have invested in you, the more you are expected to sign up. It's not exactly a secret that this is how it works. It's also not a secret that the Path is dangerous, it's literally referred to as a charnel house. Lienna was one of the top Pathers for her generation and she made it decently far at tier 15 but not exceptionally so. So a decent amount of investment on the Empire's part and not one they would simply throw away. She even mentions that the manager only left after she rejected the military contract she was offered. We don't know what she was offered but I don't see the contract being predatory. Harsh maybe, since they want to recoup their investment, but it should still likely be fair since she was an elite and they would know she should be able to get a better deal elsewhere. The fact that she apparently hasn't gotten a better deal implies that she is overvaluing herself. If that is the case then her current situation is entirely her own fault since she would have rejected the reasonable offers for not matching her own expectations.

JauPim

Unfortunately I have to agree with this.

Stormbuilder

The problem with a counter setup tends to be even if you know the counter move, you still have to be able to execute it. Long Zhiyuan will still need to be able to overpower Matt's unlimited spells and have some way to actually hurt Liz with her infinite blood clone army. All Ascenders have something that gives them their power that others can't match, they aren't just strong combatants with strong generic skills. Waters' domain is overpowered, Light has supreme mana control of others spells, Shadow has extreme spatial control, etc. Their combat power is a function of being unmatched in that area... and simply knowing those moves isn't enough to counter them.

adam1

A veritable eternity for the contracts that offer healing. I doubt it's all that long from an immortals perspective, but she's was on the path till T15 which means she was in her 70s tops when this happened. So even a couple hundred years would be long relative to her lifespan so far. That said, not sure living hundreds/thousands of years in agony is all that much better than working for someone for a similar amount of time while not being in pain.

Alex

And why does this have to be a foreign power? Information brokers are very well established. And why do you think Manny would execute civilians for publicly broadcast information? The whole Empire had a chance to see that tournament.

Kelly Bryan

At this point the Echoes chapters are far more fulfilling than the main story, which is slumping HARD. The only time i have been less interested is when they were doing endless rift creation testing.

Aegir

She doesn't want to join the army. If she was fine with joining the army, she would already be healed. That was part of the deals she was talking about. The golden handcuffs if you will.

Bob Bryan

Shes one of the higher numbered during the tier 10 pather tournament, honestly she didnt have much screen time there and i think we only see her here is because the other guy besides queen was reported to be killed in a rift in and earlier chapter

Garviel Geist

Considering they're probably watching her, heck, the Empire might have made the offer, thinking if she made the correct not corrupt choice, they'd offer healing and to put her in the army. I don't doubt they're watching those who met their newest Ascenders in the tourney.

Melody Haren Anderson

I was more thinking about how the government is actively allowing villains to do whatever while the heros ineffectively do anything about it because they simply want the strong to live regardless of their chosen morality to fight against an outside threat. As for an outside threat that's seeking the long term destruction of their civilization, that would be the Empire. Because they all think the empire is immoral and going to destroy them.

Teatime42

He is a different kind of threat. Frankly, if he could somehow work with !aven without them trying to kill each other, the two working together would be a much greater threat than either one alone.

Aaron Hardin

Yes, until it becomes know that Matt has essentially unlimited mana (which would start an above T35 war) he would not be a perfect counter. I believe a more likely scenario is Long’s abiliy

Aaron Hardin

I was thinking closer to my hero academia, since there is not an outside force causing the long term destruction of civilization (internal maybe, but not external).

Aaron Hardin

Can you please tell me who Lienna is and where she appears in the story

JWR

I remember naked guy but don’t remember his name

Sandy

Tftc!

brennon Petersen

People don’t get executed that easily tho. It’s mostly work sentences.

The Grey Mage

Don't really know how you could forget him He was the only guy running Minkala naked

Abriel Blauer

She's fine with owing people money. Even said she would be able to pay them back. It's the contracts they offered there were akin to slavery that she rejected. She does not want to be owned by anyone.

Bob Bryan

Empire cointel is going to execute her if they get their hands on her. Given how easily people get executed in the Empire, someone actively committing espionage isn't gonna get to keep their head.

Violet

I mean... On the one hand, as someone who has to live with constant pain (sadly, it's not a matter of not being able to afford a fix - they just can't fix what's wrong with me), I can confirm that it does totally change the way you perceive the world. On the other, I'm still perfectly able to recognize very bad ideas that will almost certainly result in my untimely death.

Violet

i have grown to truly appreciate these chapters; callbacks to characters that flesh them out as a person, or remind you of their existence. thanks

xuv

Lienne is an interesting perspective, I think being in constant pain has colored her state of mind and I hope she gets to recover. Also, everyone seems to jump to the conclusion that the person paying her is from another Great Power, why cant it just be an information broker for the Empire? She is under no legal binding to keep her observations secret and to me this just highlights why they bothered with the masks

Kelly Bryan

I keep hoping that he'll show up as an Echo...

Shmigit

All plans definitely don’t fall before power lol. Also, he’s almost certainly on par with Maven, if not stronger. So I really doubt he’s dead.

The Grey Mage

While Lienna does seem like a somewhat unreliable narrator, I do hope things turnout well for her. Maybe the Empire’s counter intelligence will get ahold of her and straighten her out.

The Grey Mage

Claude was fun. He was no Han De, but still fun

wanderer117

Actually, it seems like he's being raised as an "anti-ascender". He's not an ascender, those are people who take overwhelming power and break your enemies in every situation. Instead, he's a character who can eventually kill specific people who are vastly more powerful than him, at the expense of time and guile. He's like a phalanx of spears to a calvary, perfect at defending against one thing.

Nathan Sto

I disagree on that. We don't know exactly why she went into that Rift. Alot of this is on the manager if they chose that Rift. If they trusted their manager and then were thrown away now that they were no longer useful, that would very easily build resentment. Why shouldn't she only look out for herself if everyone else is going to betray her. There is alot of that to. At least that would be her mindset. Honestly she would have been a perfect test case for Melissa

Bob Bryan

Yeah. Torture & pain are well known to drive individuals to do or say anything for the pain to stop. I hope her character gets healed and has a mini redemption arc Mind you, if it was that bad she’d just take the deal and get healed by joining the army or something

Tommy

Lol doubt they’d bother showing us his perspective only for him to already be dead from a previous chapter! He will get a beat down eventually

Tommy

@Darius No, I'm not. I feel similarly to you in regards to how fights with Ascenders are supposed to go. But at this point it's pretty clear that we're supposed to see fights like the ones against Soddus & Girang and Maven as "victories" because of extenuating circumstances. MLA aren't going to be on the level of DW and it seems we're supposed to just accept that and move on. Just like with Maven, Long Zhiyuan isn't going anywhere soon, so every encounter is going to end with them living somehow, unfortunately.

Matt H

At least 100 of poisonings he was serving poisoned wine dressed as a waiter wearing a fake moustache

Dominic Harney

It was written very vaguely. Could be either way.

MikeL

Id like to see a echo of Simeon, the dual stars guy who matt sold mana to on the training world

Scott Lyon

How much could she really know? Nothing important. I hope it’s the Empire helping her out on the sly.

MikeL

She was pause in the t10 tournament, she could revert her body back to a previous save state.

Scott Lyon

Chapter 5 side story in minkalla. Greatest tragedy of the series. I am still devastated and demand a retcon.

Dominic Harney

We've seen people waiting for high tier healing before, and they've generally agreed to service with the Empire for that healing. Healing for citizens is free except for delvers, with the assumption being that taking risks to advance requires payment so as not to burden the system. But high tier damage is costly to heal, even if a healer is available. The only thing I expect is that she might trip an alert to get Melinda to heal her for the experience of fighting a Talent-induced injury issue.

adam1

Was that the tier 10 tournament?

Quixotic

Did I mention anyone over tier 35 I'm confused why you brought that up also it would be unfeasible to get everyone because there's always gonna be someone who slips through the cracks

Anime Problem

which chapter?

Quixotic

Did he? I don't remember that.

adam1

Eh, I think it’s less that she’s a bad person and more that she’s in so much pain she’s making stupid decisions. Sure, I don’t think she’s a *good* person, but I don’t think she’s a bad person either.

CringeWorthyStudios

Long Zhiyuan I originally liked his character but now he's the same but also changed and you see what he made himself he is not on par with people that finish their tier 25 programs he knew he could not overcome it so he planned away to get similar power but ultimately what he's become is not power but a planner and all plans fall before power so yeah I also hope he was there for the ambush and he died. Just as a side note

hachetnif

She refused to join the Army after falling off the path, which was technically a violation of the contract she had as a Pather. She embezzled money to pay for her potions until she was fired. She has repeatedly gotten offers for healing, just requiring her to join the guilds thay would provide it for a certain number of years, but she refuses. She is the kind of person that wants everything and goves nothing.

Tristan R Mitchell

The Empire's advantage is the restriction of resources and the manager system. It produces stronger ascenders.

Tristan R Mitchell

It might just be some empire nobles. Neither us nor her knows who is buying her knowledge. But you are right that it suggests a lack of loyalty. But to be fair, the empire hasn’t done much to earn it. Reaching Tier 15 on the path should have been more than enough for the empire to offer a plan with a payback over a few hundred years. Not the indefinite plans she’s referring.

Chymor

I think she was the one from their tournament that could revert herself back through time by a bit, and to beat her they had to contain her past that time limit

CursedValheru

Don't pity Lienna. Her story is told from her perspective and her perspective is clearly very warped. Reading between the lines, it's clear that she stole from the hospital finances and got fired for it. But she believes that she did nothing wrong and blames the hospital. Apply that same logic to the rest of her complaints and her section reads very differently.

JauPim

Her personality is definitely warping her perspective. If you pay attention she stole from the hospital's finances, got fired and then blamed the hospital. No remorse, no reflection. Just attempts to justify herself as being right.

JauPim

Re-read her section, bearing in mind that it is told from her perspective. Especially this section - "From there, she’d gotten an AI job. It was nothing special, just data-pushing and correspondence, monitoring some low-level finance for the hospital. Things she could do from her bed, from her chair. But they didn’t pay enough, not enough to pay for her potions, but that wasn’t her fault. If they’d just give her the healing she needed, then she wouldn’t have needed the pain potions to begin with. They didn’t see it that way, of course, and they’d acted so magnanimous when they fired her, acting like they were doing her such a favor by cutting off her sanity lifeline." It sounds like she stole from the hospital's finances and then blamed the hospital for firing her. I expect that the other things she complains about are similar, her expecting people to just give her things without her paying any of the cost.

JauPim

Eh I don’t know about that like he’s a “counter” only if his data about Matt and the rest is still relevant, it’s almost certainly not unless he somehow guessed Matt’s exponential growth and factors that into his model somehow, and without that he’s talented sure but only with set up he’ll be a good recurring antagonist but imo not even close to a sure fire winner whenever he shows up.

Kain

He died.

Allen

Yeah, she wants someone to heal her but doesn't want to pay the cost of the healing. From the sound of it, that sort of healing is relatively expensive so, especially with the war on, the people providing it want to focus on their own people first. Anyone else needs to pay upfront. Lienna wants to be healed and pay it back over time, which seems to be the deal offered to members of the organisations that will be able to provide that level of healing. However, she refuses to join any of the organisations and then blames them for not compromising. It's also worth noting that it's told from her perspective and people are seldom self-aware enough to view themselves as being in the wrong. Take this section - "From there, she’d gotten an AI job. It was nothing special, just data-pushing and correspondence, monitoring some low-level finance for the hospital. Things she could do from her bed, from her chair. But they didn’t pay enough, not enough to pay for her potions, but that wasn’t her fault. If they’d just give her the healing she needed, then she wouldn’t have needed the pain potions to begin with. They didn’t see it that way, of course, and they’d acted so magnanimous when they fired her, acting like they were doing her such a favor by cutting off her sanity lifeline." It sounds like she was fired for stealing money from the finances she oversaw but she blames the hospital and doesn't see it as her fault. She is one of those people who always push the blame for their mistakes and bad luck onto others.

JauPim

I get the sense that she is an unreliable narrator. Constant pain twists people. That said, I would be surprised if she wasn't under surveillance of some kind. Then again, how many people fall off the path every year? Can we really expect no one to fall through the cracks?

Phil

It's really interesting to see the Guilds be a variant path that the Sects might have taken. It's struck me as hard to shoehorn heroic/villainous behavior into cultivation settings because of the lack of incentive to cultivators to engage in either petty crime or fighting villains over furthering their cultivation. Socially gamifying that behavior in order to keep your proto-Sects from becoming the kind of tyrants that the Sects became is an interesting justification.

Violet

I really wonder why Pause is not given more resources. Maybe her perspective is very skewed. But a T15 who was able to delve +4 Tiers and a Top 5 talent in her generation should be able to secure even expensive healing without going into a slave contract

da Finnci

Given how Lienna / Pause seems to be selling her knowledge to another Great Power, there is no way The Empire will let Melinda anywhere near her.

Abriel Blauer

Blind man during the Minkala run He was a main / recuring character in the Minkala side stories

Abriel Blauer

It also serves to blunt the more nefarious crimes. If you can legitimately be a Villain as long as you don't cross certain lines, that would certainly make those more extreme crimes less likely to happen.

Phil

you're confusing "winning" with "not losing", if they were winning Maven would be dead instead of Team Zero only having just narrowly escaped a trap. Frankly if MLA doesn't send that insufferable asshole Long Zhiyuan packing i'm gonna be cross with Mantis, perfect counter my ass.

Darius Sanguna

Very interesting chapter. The only person I don't really remember is Lienna. She mentioned meeting the group once during the planet phase of the pather tournament. Was there more about her? I don't remember all that much about that section of the story. Though I'll be refreshed when the audiobook comes out I supposed. I'm surprised about how excited I am to see more of Long Zhiyuan in the future. Maybe because there wasn't a definitive end to the Minkalla confrontation? He is also just an interesting character, his talent especially. He clearly remembers Matt at the very least. Makes sense considering how important Minkalla was to Long Zhiyuan. I like the idea that the Guilds legitimize Villains as well as Heroes. I imagine Terrorists and Vigilantes are the counterpoint to Villains and Heroes. One side representing good and evil order, and the other chaotic good and evil. True neutral would be the majority of the population, or just citizens. Would be an interesting society to explore in story form some time.

Phil

I think Lienna could be an excellent test for Melinda's powers. They could help each other if someone could get them into contact with each other. Anyway, nice chapter as always

Mashiara

I don’t remember this Claude dude

Sandy

Its not that no one wants to help her Its more like she doesn't want to owe anything for the treatment Also, do not forget that regular healer cannot help her She need a high Tier healer to overpower her Talent

Abriel Blauer

The Lienna interlude doesn’t really make sense. Is the Empire on a total war footing? No, it isn’t. That doesn’t even really make sense the way the economy is managed. She can’t afford treatment? No one will volunteer to help a talented (relatively) young woman trapped in interminable torment? I don’t buy it, it doesn’t check out.

Yshua

Whatever happened to Han De?

Yshua

I am still hoping to see the POV from the Junipers The previous noble family ruling over Lily and responsible for the multiple rift break.

Abriel Blauer

He's been setup to essentially be the perfect counter to MLA (and L&S, I suppose). Whenever he shows up in the story it'll only be once he has perfect counters prepared for them given their current abilities. I fully expect that any confrontations between him and MLA will be at best draws for MLA or, more likely, retreats for a LONG time. MLA are on a winning streak and haven't lost in a while? Bring in Long Zhiyuan!

Matt H

Seems like Villains are officially recognized criminals. They serve the purpose of being a whetstone for Heroes while also enabling people with "darker" tendencies to do what they want to do and get better and stronger as well. I expect the Guilds frequently recruits many spies, assassins, special forces, etc. from the Villains.

Matt H

I want to see the perspective of their teammates from the pather war. Annie Conner and Emily.

Dallin S

Honestly can't blame lienna, rewind, empire did her dirty. Like they could have at least paid for the healer to help fix her even if she still would have fallen off the path. That will be a very costly mistake for them in the future.

Bob Bryan

His talent is good for a induvidual. But remember what Acenders are. They are the trumpcards that are suposed to fight against people that have speceficaly trained to fight them. I can see that a great power that try to counter any Acender will create simular kinds of dumies for their strike force to fight against.

Markus

Iirc all of the independents over tier 35 are forced to swear binding oaths not to fuck shit up

austin kutz

What would you say is the advantage of the Empire’s? Covert operation? That they are already used to missions.

Ahppy

Oh i absolutely see that part as well. The system is clearly designed to incentivize her to join up and give back on the investment the empire made with her. However, her talent leaving her crippled and in horrible agony still sucks.

Thomas Brusilovsky

Empire: Main target of the war The Guilds: Allies of the Empire The Sects: Main opponent of the Empire The Republic: Main opponent of the Empire The Federation: Main opponent of the Empire + Lots of hatred The Corporations: Neutral, but previous 3 Power seems to have hired all their mercenaries. The Monster Collective: Neutral and seems to want to keep it that way The Clans: Neutral, but some leaders seems to want to join the attack on The Empire.

Abriel Blauer

I feel a little different about Lienna, I think she’s kind of delusional? She joined the path which is meant to produce the strongest assets for the Empires army. The Path is highly sponsored by the empire already, prizes for tournaments, tier milestones, mini wars, management teams - it’s a giant investment with the explicit goal of strengthening the empires military. She must have known that. Still, after she took all these investments and fell off the path she decided not to join the army. I’m not 100% sure if she got the offer but the text strongly suggests that (her management only left after she didn’t join).Instead she seems to think that even though she plans to give nothing back she still deserves more than the normal rift delver? (Namely a high tiered Healer) Don’t get me wrong- no one deserves to be in constant pain but there seem to be to few healers for to many people so, what makes her more deserving than the other patients with her?

Jana

We were told in the very first book that "The Path" is a grind house and that almost all will fall short on be that in failing to keep up with the curve or taking one final risk that ends it for them. We have been following MLA on this journey and they are the rare incredible few that somehow against all odds and common sense manage to complete it, they are truly the elite of the elite of the elite. and looking at those who were so promising and then fell short only highlights that MLA are stronger than we as an audience often give them credit for.

Havokk

I feel like it would be interesting to see a character who's independent of the Great Powers take on the Ascension Maybe we could get a cocky Sun Wukong "Throughout the heavans and the earth i alone am the honored one" like figure who wants to fight them to test their mettle

Anime Problem

Queens not done yet

Anime Problem

Back to the Tier 10 tournament. Adam, Queen, Quill, Torch and Pause were the Top 5 of the Solo part of the tournament. Adam disappeared in a Rift. Queen is on the verge of failing due to continuous healing cooldown Pause is bedridden following a freak Rift Accident Quill and Torch completed the Path. Seeing how the others elites failed and fell of the Path just show us how hard completing the Path really is, and hammer once more how deadly trying really is. Adam and Pause were truly Elite, but one died (apparently) and the other is worst than dead. Queen, who was close in Talent and Potential to Quill and Torch is also falling short.

Abriel Blauer

The path doesn't force you into the military though. Manny wants willing soldiers. You're only required to join the military if you finish the path. Everyone else can do what they want. (Though many feel indebted to the empire and decide to pay back the support they received all on their own. Always better to make people want to do sth rather than force it)

Alex

I think I need a refresher on which powers side with whom, and are in this war

Ryan Romano

Yeah. She probably got contract that would require her to work for a pretty long time, but she immortal. If there's anything she's got, it's time. But she would rather be completely independent, no kong term contracts. She wants freedom. That is her choice, but she should also accept the consequences of that choice. Its not like the risks of delving are a secret.

Alex

I wonder how many Pathers from the tournament feel the same way about Matt and Liz competing in both their masked and unmasked personas. and Id still love to see the reaction from the Corporations guy from Minkalla as he tries to figure a way to make any deals he can with MLA

Havokk

The feel of it was that the military wanting her to serve at all was a slave offer from her point of view. Never mind that she voluntarily signed up for military recruitment (The Path)

SunStar

I agree to a degree. I would imagine that all great powers have similar sorts of programs. Add to that while he would be a wrecking ball at the lower levels, the normal mix of infighting, scale of effectiveness for planning on such a large battle field, and the inability to effect the higher tiers of battle will mean he will be more background than main villain. One of my favourite scans from a manga was that the enemy could predict everything, but got knower in one punch as he could not see away of not getting a haymaker to the chin as soon ad the bell rung.

Dominic Harney

The first point is, based of what was said, no normal healer can help her. She seems to be needing a high level healer who could overpower her Talent. Such healer are unlikely to be independents, either working for the Empire, a high tier guild or a noble. So, yes, hiring the service of such an healer is probably complicated and pricy. Given the fact that her accident happened while on the Path, I found it strange that no solution was given to her. The fact that her trainer just dumped her, like she said, also sounds weird. I am more inclined to believe that her personality seems to have warped her perception. While she was on the Path, it would have been impossible for her to get a "slave" offer for healing. Also, going back to the Pather's war, it was always said that army / military contract were fair. While I believe there is a lot of people trying to abuse the situation and have her sign up the next several 10 thousands years of her life, I am also sure she got fair offer from others. I am pretty certain her manager must have tried to found a good option for her. Like for Matt and the mana concentration formation, she must have received an offer for healing with an option to pay back after the Path. I think this is more a situation where her Pride, Ego and Personality prevented her from differencing the honest help people were trying to gave her from the abuser.

Abriel Blauer

Agreed Im pretty sure she is the Pather "Pause" who in the tournament simply couldn't be killed as all wounds were reversed. Sad to see her go the informant route but her story makes her reasoning understandable

Havokk

A bit of a dark chapter. Not sure I care about others than LZ, who will have a reckoning in future with our MCs.

Bender

While mostly true, they do lots of missions and stuff, and most individuals/ parties can constantly delve anyway, so most of their non rift time is practicing against people I would assume.

Andrew Glass

Surprising there aren’t more smaller tournaments required. I know there are optional ones that Anne’s team did.

MikeL

Hot damn I feel awful for that poor girl at the start. I can definitely see why she’s hella bitter.

Thomas Brusilovsky

His rivalry with Light would be interesting. Two schemers. I feel that his worst opponent would be Liz with her functional immortality and bloodline tree.

sambee

With every soldier he cuts down, he would have a flashback to the convoluted plan he pulled off to have them ingest the poison.

RedeyeA

I'm pretty sure Lienna is the pather who could heal herself by reversing time for herself in MLA's tournament. She had a rivalry with the illusion guy who disappeared in a rift.

She was Pause / Rewind in the Tier 10 tournament with Matt and Liz. With Adam and Suzanne (Queen) they were the Top 5 Solo if I remember correctly

Abriel Blauer

It would be really funny if when he is T31, Blood Hands takes out a T35 army by poisoning each of them individually the night before and having 1000 years of subjective experience fighting against all of them.

RedeyeA

Pause/Rewind

C_Mantis

Thanks for the chapter!! And who is Lienna??

Nathan

No. Queen’s name is Susanne

Charlie Staner

I was just recently thinking that the Story lacks some Villains on MLAs Tierrange as Maven is the only standout and we will need enemies for 2 wars. I still hope that the monster collective can be bribed to join the empire’s side which leaves us with Bloodhand (that one’s gonna be annoying) and Lienna (more of a spyhunt here).

Jana

Claude has a point though, the path doesn't really train you all that well for fighting people which is 90% of what they're supposed to do once they finish and join the army. Stuff like the Pather war only rarely happens. They do get occasional missions, but not all that often. The sects take the learning to fight people part a bit too far, forcing them into death matched every two tiers that only end after a minimum of 50% of young masters have been killed. Not sure how good the guilds stuff is. All Path equivalents have their upsides and downsides.

Alex

Long Zhiyuan is going to find out that even the best laid plans don't mean anything when countered with overwhelming force.

Darius Sanguna

That is correct she is Pause/Rewind

C_Mantis

Tftc!

James Faulkner

No queen is Susanne who is in early tier 20s still fighting to finish the path.

Spellmonger

I wonder if Lienna is under surveillance. It’s a bit odd that she was so suddenly dropped. She did make it to tier 16 ish. What about all her prizes, and her manager just disappearing? Either she has managed to piss everyone off, she is clueless to the help she is being offered, or it’s a test of character that she is failing.

Dominic Harney

I was thinking Pause/Rewind.

MikeL

My goodness. Long Zhiyuan is actually horrifying, that his talents and I assume Revelations can be exploited even more where he is at. He is going to be a fun opponent later, looking forward to it.

Xepen

Is Lienna Queen?

mitchell kaiser

Long Zhiyuan. Unlimited experience and planning against unlimited mana. The only good thing about it is that it will take Long Zhiyuan decades if not a century to reach tier 25 and be ready for the same battlefields... More likely he will be put into the lower tier battlefields and absolutely wreak the war effort there.

Fake Name

Thanks a bunch! ʕ•ᴥ•ʔゞ゛

Sezra_

Going to have to go back and find scenes with Lienna, I don't remember her 😆

Spellmonger

Oof. Poor girl. She's bitter, and unknowingly a traitor, but I can hardly blame her. And jeez the former Young Master. So he's catching up huh? A mountain similar to Folded Reflections that synergizes with his Talent to that extent. What a lucky break for him. Not an official Ascender, but actually approaching that level right now. The Guilds confuses me even more now. How does the Villain system work?

SCDarkSoul

Living in a society that runs Hero's and Villains like that feels too much like living in Worm. Sounds painful. XD

Teatime42

Free healing only applies to regular injuries and illnesses, even in the empire. Delving is at your own risk. (I am wondering now what exactly the rules are, what about training accidents? Crafting accidents? Are they covered for free?) That said, there should be more reasonable ways to get a loan for healing and pay back later. The empire could make rules about it. She has a point, she is immortal, predatory contracts suck. Like the ones that Matt got when he first got his talent. The ones Miles warned him about not taking. Then again, how bad really are the contracts. Working for someone for a couple hundred years may be worth it. Really depends on how bad they are. She may be a bit biased and see something that's merely not great as something terrible. That said, the empire healers are working a lot. It may not just be malice keeping them from prioritizing. They may simply not have enough high tier healers for everyone. If some healer came and healed her, that may mean somebody else wouldn't get healing and on a empire wide scale nothing would've changed. She is hateful. She does realize that a lot of ascenders come from nowhere? Matt does. So do Aiden and Zack. Allies parents were immortal but they were still nobodies. Lila is a dragon, that doesn't count :)

Alex

Thanks for the chapter!

Kuurth