Mad Men 4x02 Reaction
Added 2025-10-30 23:34:34 +0000 UTC
Comments
Throughout the whole part of the discussion about Peggy, I kept thinking about Veronica Mars and then Lola mentioned it and I was so happy. Veronica Mars should serve as a cautionary tale for any male writer who is writing a lead female character, lol, and Rob's comments after the show ended trying to justify his horrible decision were so tone deaf, I was honestly left wondering how he even got a job as a writer in the first place. That trope is unfortunately very common among all female characters but especially in Black female characters. It's known as "The Strong Independent Black Woman that doesn't need a man" and it's almost always used when writing a black female character ,so trust me, I'm very used to seeing and having to deal with this kind of trope. Never surprising but always aggravating.
Nyeisha Melvina Clark
2025-10-31 21:26:07 +0000 UTCWith the kids/parenting situation, it’s important to remember the time period. You guys are right, but also looking at it with very modern sensibilities. Things that seem like no brainers to us, simply weren’t for our characters.
JJ
2025-10-31 19:05:52 +0000 UTCSeason 4 is insanely good. I feel like every season so far has had some lulls here and there, but not the case for season 4. I'm so excited for what's to come.
Taya
2025-10-31 17:17:34 +0000 UTCI really hope they’re just gonna tear through Season 4; because I’ve just reminded myself of the next few episodes and this run of episodes is kind of ridiculous. It’s been so enjoyable watching them fall in love with the show knowing all the great things to come.
ruseka
2025-10-31 16:37:33 +0000 UTCDon's really difficult to watch for most of this episode, but the little exchange with Roger is great: "Did you enjoy the Führer's birthday?" "May he live for a thousand years!" Nice to see Don's humour come out.
Biberius Caldius Mero
2025-10-31 14:11:44 +0000 UTCSeems as if every character in the show is someone we recognize from our own lives. Part of the show's genius, I guess.
Thomas Fahey
2025-10-31 14:04:31 +0000 UTCFor sure. The goal should be to write complex and interesting women, not whatever "strong" is supposed to mean.
Sebastian
2025-10-31 11:23:17 +0000 UTCIt is also interesting that I feel like we have seen the "teehee I'm such a helpless woman, won't someone help me" act a lot the first three seasons, especially around Don, and now we get to S4 and Don is the one on that end of the dynamic by being so helpless this episode that he needs to be babied by multiple different women. Although for him it's not an act. Spoilers: V sbetrg ubj zhpu Qba juberf nebhaq guvf frnfba. V zrna V xarj, orpnhfr vg'f F4, ohg guvf rcvfbqr fubjvat hf Nyyvfba, NAQ Snlr, NAQ Cubror (Jub V erzrzorerq ohg abg univat guvf zhpu bireync). Naq bs pbhefr Zrtna vf gurer, V fhccbfr gb or uvqqra va cynva fvtug.
Kev
2025-10-31 11:07:20 +0000 UTCIt's written into it, he returns to disappoint Peggy
LSTER
2025-10-31 10:50:08 +0000 UTCLola reaction to Freddy's scenes is a little bit harsh in my opinion.
Sami
2025-10-31 10:04:58 +0000 UTCCompletely agree with the takes on the Draper kids. Sally is 10 here (I think, from S1 birthday) and Bobby is 3 years younger, so 7. Those are drastically different ages. And Gene is 1.5 I think, so all 3 of the Draper kids will be having different relationships with Henry as their step-dad / "new dad". Don adds a few Beatles records to Sally's xmas list even though she didn't ask, that's a good gift, he has his finger on the cultural pulse. Peggy is 25 years old and while WE know she's a confident talented woman, to other people she's a baby and worse, a baby GIRL (shock! horror!). Freddy has a daughter around Peggy's age and I think he gives her the same advice he'd give his kid. Is it good advice? Ummm... It helps Peggy decide that her boyfriend isn't the person she wants wants to "wait until marriage" for at least? And his line about needing to spend less time at work is almost certainly true. Peggy seems like a workaholic, like Don, but Don started Sterling Cooper already in a relationship with Betty (who said she met him "at the fur shop"). Peggy and Don are again in a weirdly similar position from completely opposite ends: Peggy is yearning for the marriage she has yet to have, and Don is yearning for the marriage he lost. When Allison grabs Don's keys from the office and says "I might need to get some food in him", Joey replies "he's pathetic". To the newer/younger staff they only know the current Don Draper as a divorced, drunk, cringe mess. I always thought this was interesting, his legendary reputation precedes him but they haven't necessarily seen it, they weren't crying in the room during the Carousel pitch along with us etc. It always surprises me how many great actors are in this show, even characters like Allison feel like real people, have subtle reactions. Allison Brie (Trudy Campbell) used to say she'd do SERIOUS ACTING that elevated her on the Mad Men set and then she'd sprint over to the Community set to do silly goofs and gaffs in that show. Bonus Thoughts: Roger mentions "the red dress with a bow that makes you look like a present" to Joan and she chooses to wear that dress for the party. "Did you enjoy the Fuhrer's birthday?" is one of my fav lines, I love when Don reminds us he's funny. I don't have anything to add to the Don/Allison situation except throwing money at the problem is such a Tony Soprano move 💀
Kara
2025-10-31 07:44:08 +0000 UTCWill you stop. Of course she tried to stop him showing her underwear to everyone in the office. That what any sane person would do. But she was obviously not forlorn about it. It was obviously all in the game. Christ. Some people are down with this sort of stuff and others are not. It's very hard to imagine Peggy or Hildy or Joan in this situation. They would never have entertained the chase with the giggling and the laughing and would have actually put a stop to it right away. Allison was obviously fine with it.
Julien
2025-10-31 06:26:35 +0000 UTCYeah I don't agree with those takes, though I understand it. People compartmentalize + merge the first 3 seasons at OG Sterling Cooper, and that's what leads to that.
Kara
2025-10-31 06:20:52 +0000 UTCFreddy is a good guy, if old-fashioned. He was the one who first recognized Peggy’s talent. The fixation on him sitting in her chair was bizarre. Peggy knows how to stand up for herself - like we’ve seen in this very episode WITH FREDDY. She obviously didn’t mind at all. If she had, she would have made it known. Lola really gets carried away with this stuff sometimes.
Julien
2025-10-31 03:59:41 +0000 UTCI've ranted about "strong female characters" before, it drives me insane. It's maddening how often these characters just get written as uncaring, stoic, rigid and DULL. I believe it to come from a deep misunderstanding of feminism. Women are allowed to reject their femininity, that does not mean that a "strong" female character CAN'T be feminine, they just don't HAVE TO be. Women don't have to be defined by a relationship, that does not mean they CAN'T end up with anyone. Writers end up just sanding off the edges of these characters to the point that they become unlikable. I've gotten really tired of these "badass" female characters if done this poorly. Lately I've been really gravitating towards female characters that are either complete dorks or absolute morons, at least they're not boring.
Nina
2025-10-31 03:43:04 +0000 UTCYes, Don used to have "standards". He didn't sleep around at the office, or with people that he and Betty knew socially. But he is just CRUMBLING, and he has been for the past season or so. His descending deeper into alcoholism only exacerbates things: He's not just losing his self-control, he CAN'T keep it even if he wanted to. Freddy Rumsen is a little condescending to Peggy in this episode, but he's one of the few characters where I read it as a byproduct of his societal conditioning instead of his own innate personality. Freddy is "old fashioned" and he stills views Peggy as the inexperienced newcomer in the field, whereas we've seen her grow into an experienced and seasoned copywriter. It's definitely a problem that he took Peggy's desk and didn't get up when she arrived -- I'm not underselling that -- but it's because he didn't THINK. It wasn't a power play to put her down. This is in contrast to Lee Garner, who forced Roger into the Santa Claus outfit just to flex his muscles and make himself feel better by pushing him around. "The customer is always right IN MATTERS OF TASTE". If you work in a clothing store and your customer wants to by a hideous outfit, you sell them the hideous outfit. If you work in a steakhouse and they order their steak well-done with ketchup on the side, you cook the steak well-done and serve it with ketchup on the side. If you work in marketing and they want a campaign that you don't think will work, you try to talk them out of it, but at the end of the day you sell them the campaign that they want. Don lost sight of that, and we can see it causing them problems. The "Heathkit radio" that Bobby mentioned in his letter to Santa was a series of assemble-at-home products from the mid-to-late 20th century. You could by "kits" for radios or computers or other electronics and build them yourself at home. They were a lot of kids first exposure to "modern technology" and got a whole generation of nerds into electronics at home.
JBK405
2025-10-31 02:39:14 +0000 UTCDon watching the light leave Allison's eyes and then going "well anyway here's 100 dollars!" is both so gross and so funny. If you're looking for words close to pathetic, here's some: Pitiful Miserable Deplorable Wretched Craven.
Nina
2025-10-31 02:10:15 +0000 UTCI knew the storyine with the secretary would make LM wanna crawl into their couch lol
Father of the Year
2025-10-31 02:10:11 +0000 UTCTrue, and I also mostly read that scene as Freddy being back into the fold and Roger being obviously drunk and on the verge of losing Lucky Strike. It was also a professional choice from Joan imo. Like a "come on man"
Chris B
2025-10-31 01:54:32 +0000 UTCKen nailed Allison in S1. And she wasn't exactly clutching her pearls when Ken showed her underwear in S1. She definitely has casual sex. But it's also clear that she is crushing on Don.
Julien
2025-10-31 00:54:52 +0000 UTCwhere do you decipher these?
bondbond53
2025-10-31 00:35:47 +0000 UTC*sips tea for no apparent reason*
bondbond53
2025-10-31 00:35:33 +0000 UTCwhich is like so not relatable *ehem* what does she see in him *looks away*
bondbond53
2025-10-31 00:31:18 +0000 UTCWhile rewatching the show, I noticed a number of scenes where Allison is in the background gazing at Don. She's had a crush on him for a long time.
Taya
2025-10-31 00:26:20 +0000 UTCI guess I'll say it again: Poor Allison! For the record, I think the transactional slap in the face at the end there was intentional. Don wanted to kill this relationship in the crib, and that was a very expedient way of showing her how he felt about it. I'm sure he didn't want to crush her like that -- and wow, did she look crushed -- but that wasn't a case of Don *accidentally* offending Allison. Most importantly, folks, that's the first ever mention of The Beatles of Mad Men. An absolutely massive indicator of what's coming in the next few years. Spoilers, obviously: V'z ernyyl vzcerffrq ol ubj gur fubj vagebqhprf Zrtna urer. Jr'er fgvyy yrneavat gur arj snprf ng FPQC va trareny (Wbrl, rgp.) naq ab bar vf cnlvat nggragvba gb ure nf n cbgragvny ybir vagrerfg sbe Qba orpnhfr bs gur Nyyvfba fghss naq gur vagebqhpgvba bs Snlr. Ohg Wbna pnyyvat ure ol anzr, naq gur pybfr hc, naq gur jnl fur vf vagrtengrq vagb gur Puevfgznf cnegl... Gurl pbhyq unir orra gbb boivbhf nobhg vg, naq gurl pbhyq unir xrcg ure ragveryl ba gur crevcurel hagvy gur raq bs gur frnfba (be vageb ure pybfre gb gur svanyr). Gb zr, guvf vf whfg evtug.
Mike
2025-10-31 00:26:05 +0000 UTCI don't at all share idea that this is where Mad Men really begins - I've been watching show since nearly the beginning and I've never even heard that until comments here in recent weeks. Certainly there is a shift (office, vibes) but I don't see S1-3 at all as an intro like some have been suggesting.
Julien
2025-10-31 00:18:23 +0000 UTCWomen weren't advised to not drink alcohol during pregnancy until the 1970s-1980s. Joan just didn't want a drink.
Eric Viola
2025-10-31 00:10:57 +0000 UTCThat's definitely the intended vibe. In many ways the Kennedy assassination is considered the unofficial end of the 50s / start of the 60s. I prefer the vibe of S1-3.
Julien
2025-10-31 00:01:50 +0000 UTCA little trivia, Faye Miller is played by Cara Buono who played Kelli, Christopher Moltisanti's girlfriend/wife in the last season of The Sopranos.
Eric Viola
2025-10-31 00:01:41 +0000 UTC*My European self listening to the intro*: 'So it's Milena who I have to blame for me going to bed late. Finally an excuse!'
bondbond53
2025-10-30 23:50:41 +0000 UTCI think one distinction between seasons 1-3 and the rest is that those first few seasons could have taken place in the 50s (ignoring references to current events) but the subsequent seasons are pure 1960s.
Damien Fenton
2025-10-30 23:43:16 +0000 UTC
