VINLAND SAGA 2x18: "The First Method" // Reaction and Discussion

the episode that bludgeoned my soul. it was hard to sit through, my whole body tensed. loved to hear your guys' thoughts here. despite, or rather, because of the pain and horror I've felt, it makes me all the more appreciative of the story with each lasting episode, for being able to evoke those emotions to such an intense level.

Connor Lawrence

No Madoka either. Something's gone wrong.

Keith Merrington

no anime video? 😂

just hoping nothing bad happened

piqs

I think we're arguing different things. I'm not saying that societies can't change or that it's easy to judge him, in fact it is the direct opposite: it is impossible to judge him fairly. I think the only way to absolutely fairly judge someone is to use the standards of their time. And yet, we cannot divorce ourselves from the education and viewpoints that serve as the basis for our very thoughts and morals. Ideas such as: owning another human is wrong. Women are equal to men. I can acknowledge that owning slaves was common practice back then and shouldn't be held against Ketil, but in the back of my mind I will still hate him for it because that has been drilled into me from the moment I could comprehend the idea. It's the same driver behind the concept of "things aging poorly." Of course challengers arise and societies change. That's nature. But the impossibility of transposing the ideas of a new society onto an old (much older) society was what I was getting at. What we think of as being objective can never truly be so, unless we exist in relatively the same time and space as those we are judging. But just because we cannot be truly objective does not mean we should not judge; we gotta do the best with what we got.

Jeffrey Xue

Well if the show has taught us anything, it's that patience is a virtue. I'll be waiting excitedly.

Del

I hope it comes with the Madoka episode

XDrakeX

maybe they went on vacation or something. though that seems like something they would mention. any mods around?

Daniel Borrego

о/, and on the ep I’ve been looking forward to most of all:D

Verols

He only turned out like this because of the king and because of his son. But Thorgil only started this war cause of the king. So its all the kings fault in the end.

XDrakeX

frieren refreshing gang o/

Nut Kon

Still no upload sadly

Chibi

usually they mention something.

Daniel Borrego

Just scrolled down on my patreon page and saw this and was wondering that too

L.C.

I completely understand I just believe at the end of the day he still helped them and gave them the opportunity of freedom. Most slaves would be slaves for life. Yes he benefited from them yes he manipulated them in a way that they would work hard and not strike back and most likely choose to stay and work on the farm after being free. That part of him should still be acknowledged. Its what makes his downfall so disappointing and sad.

Frozenbozo

no frieren this week?

Daniel Borrego

Her VA is an actress that works in live action series so, that might have helped her with this perfomance. She should win so many awards for her performance during this season

𝑳𝒐𝒓𝒆𝒍𝒆𝒊 ♤

as soon as they started talking about how they would let Arnheid off with a slap on the wrist I started getting skeptical. Doesn't get any easier to watch 😓

PeaceTea

Prior to watching reaction: That thumbnail + What i know is coming = DREAD

AngieAngelFish

The Ulfberht inscription is from an attested master Frankish craftsman in the low Middle Ages. It's an unspoken worldbuilding detail but that Ketil has one of those speaks to his obscene wealth and prosperity—the BEST swords in all of Europe for this time period.

Alex Snell

@Jeffrey Xue most people that watched believed Ketil to be kind at first. It has nothing to do with “modern society”. It’s true it’s easy to judge him, but not because times are different, rather because we are looking at his character objectively. If we as a species were truly so limited by the societies we find ourselves in there would never be any real challengers… and we already know that there are, there have been, and there will continue to be.

Chelle

One thing I noticed when rereading the manga was how similair the panels are with Arnheid’s first hit and Thorgil’s first hit on the child thief

Moroni W

A man beating the woman who holds his own child. The animals in the stables even cry out. It defies the natural order. Vinland at its core is a study of human nature. Both the good that can come from us “violating” nature by moving beyond the desire for our basic needs and the absolute horrors that can come from giving into our complex emotions. I was shocked to hear how many people hated this “mini arc” of Gardar and Arnhied and called it “boring”, but it’s SO important to the themes of this arc and the story as a whole.

Goob

It's all relative. Of course by modern moral standards he is a despicable, pitiful man. You could probably argue that for a Norseman of the time, he would be considered kind prior to this episode. We will never be able to judge this fairly because we as viewers have have been subject to education and societal norms which are so vastly different than even 50 years ago. We will never be able to fathom the notion that owning another human being could be considered "normal." That being the case, probably the best we can do then IS to judge him by modern standards, and yeah, he can burn in whatever underworld you wish.

Jeffrey Xue

I would argue he was never kind he did sexually abuse arnheid and let his wife beat her.

WerBar

Glad you enjoyed it Chelle.

Nossso

Personally I don’t think he was ever really kind. He was a slave owner that used his slaves accordingly. The “kindness” only existed when he could still get what he wanted out of it. That’s not real kindness in my eyes.

Chelle

Ketil is a very human character you can understand his actions. He may have started as a reasonable kind but cowardly man, but in the end in his darkest moments he went down the wrong path he chose control and violence which is what ultimately makes him a bad person in the end. Just like so many characters in Vinland Saga Ketil is very well done.

Frozenbozo

yeah I couldn’t give less of a shit about how he felt to be honest with you 😂 but that’s also a testament to how they wrote his character, no fictional character has ever made me this angry before

Chelle

Arnheid’s VA might honestly be the best I’ve ever heard, her performance this episode was WAY too real

Chelle

pls never say anything ever again

Chelle

There is a episode 18.5 on the MAPPA Youtube Channel, that is good to watch before Episode 19.

WuXian Suibian

It's honestly pretty amazing and respectable that you guys still managed to have compassion and empathy for Ketil as a character in the immediate aftermath of watching this episode. I know I didn't

Gunner

Some heavy stuff this episode 😓

Jarue Teppen

1v2 is crazy 💀

Sharandeep981

I hope you guys enjoyed Ketil's heroic 1v2 fight. Can't wait to watch the reaction.

Nossso