My Patrons, My Friends - The New Reality In July

Hi Fran, I’ve paid 19% vat from the first day on here in Germany. I’m fine with it. Try to stay relaxed, even in hard times, that is the best health advice I can give you. PS: I feel some ‚always on air ‘ Pressure on you. Get yourself some real vacation. At least three weeks, please. I believe Nobody will go away.

Not to worry :)

Dear patron, We hope you’re safe and healthy during these unprecedented times. We’re writing to give you a heads up that starting July 1st, we are being required by law to start adding VAT to some pledges in certain countries, including Norway. Not all pledges are subject to VAT Whether or not VAT will apply to your pledge depends on what benefits your creator(s) provide(s) and what’s considered taxable in Norway. ‘Benefits’ are things creators provide in return for your pledge, like exclusive videos, extra podcast episodes, merch, etc. Not all pledges or benefits are taxable, and in many cases only a fraction of a pledge will be taxable. How much VAT might be charged? VAT in Norway is 25%. On a $5 pledge, in the unlikely event that the full $5 is taxable, VAT would be about $1.25 at the most. But it could be as low as $0 if the benefits you receive are not taxable in Norway, or your creator doesn’t provide benefits and you are simply providing support. Learn more about what benefits are taxable here. We’ve been working with creators closely over the past several weeks to help them prepare for VAT and minimize the impact on their patrons. In their settings, creators can specify the value of each benefit so that we only apply VAT to the taxable portion of your pledge. Any VAT collected goes directly to your government. For more information and FAQs, click here. If you have any questions, don’t hesitate to reach out to us here. Now more than ever, we’re grateful to you for supporting creators when they need it most. The Patreon Team

Hey, no worries ... we're already used to paying all the taxes, taxes on tax here in the the old world.

Hey, no-one said this would be easy; you've still got my support Fran. Take it easy.

Bill Rule

Uped my pledgr. Wish it was more.

James Boatright

Love you, Fran.

Ken McGlothlen

Hi Fran, only just seen this video. I joined Patreon a month or so ago, and I've been charged 20% VAT from the beginning. I believe it's a UK tax. Have increased my pledge - hope it helps.

Patreon rightly got a lot of stick last time they tried to rearrange their charges in a way that would have hugely penalised creators, but this seems much less offensive. Nobody enjoys paying tax but, like it or loath it, it's an essential part of paying for a civilized society, and it rather devalues the product of your and other digital creators' effort to pretend that it's not equivalent to physical things. And lastly, your video finally kicked my lazy arse into reshuffling who my paltry Patreon dollars are going to, to better reflect whose content I have been getting the most from over the last year, and that starts with an overdue subscription to FranLab.

Fran, nothing wrong with sales tax on Patreon, from my point of view. why? 1) tax is a valid way to raise money for social services and infrastructure maintenance. we all depend upon that sooner or later. In other words: i do not fall for that "tax is theft" talk. 2) protesting patreon by calling for boykot or shifting towards yet untaxed services: you will just hurt the creators and fragement the community

Andreas Dorfer

Maddening... not going anywhere Fran. I am a patron of Fran Lab... I will be a patron of Fran Lab.

Tom

I found Fran on YouTube. I spend a lot of time there. I came to Patreon to support her in my small way. We are all adjusting to a world with COVID. I intend to continue supporting Fran because I have faith she will prevail and produce cool content again. I don’t need regular and or weekly posts. While it would be cool to see simple maintenance stuff. I’m fine waiting for the more involved fun stuff. Take your time Fran, we will be here. Be happy and healthy.

No worries, Fran. The state I live in even taxes shipping charges when you order something! It's gonna be a nightare for Patreon tho!

I'm definitely one of those people who don't click through to the Patreon posts, so I'm sorry (I just go straight to YouTube). But regardless, I'm not going anywhere. I hope you can get your health stuff sorted out and take some time to take care of yourself - you deserve it!

No worries Fran, my top tier donation will keep coming, take care of yourself, wishing you good health, blessed be!!

This is so ridiculous. I'm tired of the greedy. I, too, am too old for this crap and spent. I won't be reducing my contribution. But I am putting my only voice forth in November.

KC Oaks

I habe just seen the video and I made my decision on how to react.

I have no intention of leaving. We are here for the long run.

Kendra Akin

Saw your video and signed up, also!

Rebecca Putman

Hi, saw the video, and decided to bit the bullet and join up. Saw the PI and had to use it as it is in so many formulas. Now is the time for you to take care of you!

Clifford Philllips

In response to this video, I have just joined FranLab. And I'll say that even with your IQ temporarily reduced by 40 points, you're still well above average! Hang in there, and please try not to stress over things that are out of your control. Yeah, I know that's a lot easier said than done. 🍻

Mark J. Blair

The swag pack! I recognize that button from my refrigerator door! Fran, I'll gladly pay my local sales tax to continue donating and keeping you on the air. As will just about everyone else in here. You're worth it.

Zig Zichterman

I'm not going anywhere and I won't be reducing my pledge amount. And don't worry about producing content until you're well enough! My wife has various long-term health issues that mean she has good days when she's really functional, but more often than not she has bad days when she's in pain and/or fog-brained. So I know how that goes and I'd never hold it against my wife or against you. You're doing great!

Circuitmike

Oh you daft lass, Fran I support you because I want to help you out & that won’t change just because there’s there’s a little tax on top. It’s obvious you’re having a hard time right now, you’re visibly jittery so please, please keep in mind that this may seem way worse to you than it actually is right now. My best wishes to you & I hope you settle in the the new med regime sooner rather than later. 😊

Nicholas Wilson

You have the most touching videos. Of course I'll pay!

I intentionally avoid swag knowing things like this are lurking as local municipalities are hurting for revenue. I'd: 1. Form a 501(c)(3) to receive all donations. 2. Then write off all expenses, including your lab lease. 3. Pay yourself as an officer of the org as you see fit. Just like the prosperity preachers do it.

lohphat

Thanks Fran, to your health and wellbeing! No plans to change my pledge here. Taxes don't scare me, but your frustration with tax exempt, I feel that for sure.

Are there really many patreons who will drop out because of sale tax? I doubt it. (okay, had to look up if I pay VAT or not. Off course already 21%, like on -everything- we buy). I shouldn't worry about it that much. I want you to be healthy, do what you like and share a video when you are ready for it. I hope I'm speaking for most of your patreons: We pay you a little a month to support you, not the other way around.

Ton Brands

It looks like my area isn't on the current list. But, even if it were, I wouldn't drop my support just because of that. The low energy thing is so frustrating. I'm currently in an energy slump myself. (long term health issues) I'm always afraid that outsiders will look at it and think I'm just lazy. I start wondering if I'm just lazy. Anyways, take care of yourself and I'll be looking forward to your next video whenever you are ready to make it.

just started at the 5 buck level. stay strong, stay safe.

Spencer Davis

Even if I have to pay taxes you are the last person I'd drop. I pay the state with income taxes. Much simpler.

Jessica McIntosh

As a lot of people have already commented, here in the UK we already pay VAT, so I don't think this will change anything. But I am here for the duration, whatever happens.

David Peaker

Fran, I will be happy to continue to support you in the future. The added Norwegian 25% VAT will not change that. Stay strong Fran.

I started paying VAT on my Patreron fees from October 2016.

Much love to you Fran

Dan Elleson

Hi Fran, only two certainties in life, death and taxes, better the taxes than the other one :-) I don't want you paying my taxes that my country gets, so I'll happily pay the extra if it comes to the UK. Maybe another option might be PayPal, have an option for top supporters to buy 6 or 12 months in one go via PayPal, even if that gets taxed, it might give you more in your pocket if Patreon are taking 9%. Take care of yourself and get back onto the videos when you are ready.

Leigh

No ship jumping for me.

Of course it came to no surprise to me that my country had the highest VAT.. we complain about it on a daily basis.. but less than 5% of us is willing to give up what we get for it, so complaining about taxes is a national hobby here. So here I am, joining your patreon.. hoping you keep recovering!

No worries! We'll be here

We already pay 20% tax in the UK so I doubt this will hit us more, but even if it did I wouldn't be changing my patronage.

Colin Jones

Hi Fran, take Your time to recover ! greetings from the Netherlands !

Han Wechgelaer

No worries. Won't change anything for me.

Just saw Laurence had already pointed that out - well, I'm nothing if not redundant! I also repeat myself.

The UK already charges VAT on Patreon, so no change for us living in Blighty.

No worries Fran. You are worth it. Put your energy into recovering your health, and making technical content!!

I am in the Netherlands and already paying 21% VAT to Patreon and nothing will change for me. Once a creator send me something and written the pledge-amount on the envelope the dutch customs didn't understand and I had to pay another 21% VAT +2.5% +Local shipping costs, now I disabled all shipping benefits. But I will stay on Patreon for support and please look after your health.

It’s not a big deal, really. From my side of the equation it’s a couple bucks a month, so what. You’re looking at the aggregate and you have probably come up with a rough number of added expense that seems significant, but it looks different from this end. I’m paying an amount I’m easily comfortable with and presumably even those paying the most per month are doing the same. There are few if any who're cutting it so close in their budget that a sales tax blows the deal. Get well soon Fran.

I'm also in the U.K. and I'm sure I've paid 20% VAT on top of the Patreon contributions since I started on Patreon - I won't be changing anything. Hang in there.

Ian Harris

Thanks for making a video about this. It’s the clearest explanation I’ve seen of what is changing for New Zealand; most other creators have just said “some countries might be charged tax on some levels” which is super vague! It does seem an oversight that you can’t just tick a box and say “all pledge levels include tax where relevant” though! Ewen

Ewen McNeill

I'm in the UK, but have no intention on dropping you. Be praying for your health.

Robert Dicken

You are not charged tax, you are assessed tax. Taxes are what make the good things that are needed for society to run, as well as the bad things. I don't mind paying taxes for the good things at all.

Rocco Rizzo

It’s15% GST here (New Zealand), and GST is on pretty much everything, so I’m not really surprised it’s going to be on Patreon pledges for “rewards” too (it’ll be interesting to see what, if any, of my Patreon Pledges don’t get affected). TBH, the 15% is *almost* within the range of fluctuations due to exchange rates (paying US$ pledges in NZ$) anyway. Ewen

Ewen McNeill

So after several minutes of clicking it turns out that to - ahem - increase your pledge you have to go to "Manage memberships" on your avatar menu, not the "My membership" tab on this page. Also according to my billing history at least back to January I'm paying UK VAT already, so that is slightly confusing. If I had the time and/or brain power I'd figure it out. Hang on in there, Fran.

Here in the UK VAT at 20% has been charged on contributions for some time.

Lawrence ORourke

It truly breaks my heart to see the distress this is causing you Fran. You look tired and new meds always take you for a ride sideways before forwards. Main thing here is don’t sweat needing to take a break for a while to focus on your health , this should as always be priority #1. As far as the tax coming in, for us in Australia it will be the 10% GST and I am glad to eat that because you are with it. I am sticking with you to ride this out like Thelma and Louise. Sending a big hug because you need it.

Being a bit narcissistic, I'll happily pay tax to see my name in lights! :-D

Dr Andy Hill

Hey I didn't hear UK in that list, so it looks like I got away with it, for now. Anyway, I'll stick with you whatever!

Dr Andy Hill

"Will innovate for food"! Sorry to hear about this latest concern, I'm sure for a lot of Patreon users it couldn't have come at a worse time. Hope you're feeling better soon.

Hi Fran, I'm sticking with you, cos I'm made out of glue. If I have to pay tax, so be it but hopefully they will find away round it. Don't worry about it, get yourself back to full health! I'll still be here!

Dr Andy Hill

They can take my money... but they can't take my FranLab!

Rick Lett

You are so lovable, hang in there, try not to worry.

Fran - i'll be with FranLab for as long as you are! Thanks for the heads-up on this taxing situation, but never doubt my support! Most important, please take care of yourself. All the best, Sam

Hang in there Fran! We will see you through this! DON'T get frustrated!

What if instead of Patreon, you used Paypal or some other service? Would that have the same taxation problem?

Please take time and heal.

Allen Lorenz

I like this ship; I'll see you here.

Fran - Hang in there and take care of yourself. I'll be here.

John N Nelson

I'm expecting my total Patreon spend to increase by 10% in July, because Australia. That's not going to have any impact on my current pledge. Hang in there.

OzRetrocomp

No worries, you are not eating my tax or losing my support. Save your strength.

Inventor Pardue

Wow, I'm more surprised that you expect all of us to abandon you. I'm here for the duration and I won't leave unless I can't afford it anymore! I'm with you Girl!! I'm sure many of the rest of the patrons feel the same!

Jae Lim

-- so here's thoughts and prayers for your healing - I still have that new Heathkit to build, and it turns out that I already had ordered that clock! It had a bad short somewhere in the circuit and the wall cube got hot - so here's a second chance.

Fran: I will keep being a Pi Patron - because I think electronics are so cool - I started a new job working in electronics that have to be super reliable and we test the heck out of the stuff. Also, I am happy to pay my fair share of taxes. I live in California, and I love our governor - he has great leadership. So sales tax is going to this state I love. That reminds me, I will have this big, huge federal income tax bill I am not looking forward to dealing with - however I may feel about our government, we are glad we can pay our taxes even though it is painful at times. It is harder when we don't agree with the leadership, but it is my civic duty.

Hang in there!!! I'm not going anywhere. Feel better and look forward to watching your awesome videos!!

Mikeybg

Not going anywhere Fran. Best of luck with the rest of your sabbatical.

Meh I am good. Get better and keep doing what your doing. Can't wait to see what you do on the other side of this crisis

Todd Corley

Death, coronavirus, and taxes. Sticking with you, at least through the latter two. Hope you get feeling better soon!

I'm not going anywhere. I'm used to paying a 6% sales tax here in Michigan. No problem adding whatever to my monthly pledge.

I will NOT jump ship!

William Alsing

Hang in there. We're not going anywhere

The country I live in is forcing taxes on every service, Netflix included so I guess it's part of the game. If I were to rule a country I'd do the same. If someone tells me to pay taxes for watching Fran, I'll pay taxes to watch Fran.

Im used to paying 25% VAT on just about everything here. So no change for me. :)

Fran, I increased my pledge today. Simply because your content is worth more than the taxes.

Hang in there Fran. Eventually the government will figure out how to tax the air we breathe. We are already taxed for our use of the internet, unless we are using free WiFi. I don't really care if I have to pay sales tax on Patreon donations. As far as watching thru Patreon vs. YouTube, I prefer watching on a laptop and it works better switch ing to the tube.

No worries, Fran —I already knew about this, and I’m not going anywhere. 👍😁

No worries, Fran. Not going anywhere. Looking forward to better times to come.

Michael S Wilhelm

I don't care about paying sales tax on this. I'm pretty sure that with the pandemic shutting down the global economy, governments are beating the bushes looking for tax revenue

Patreon is a bit of a set and forget thing. So yeah, best way is to just make a public video eventually.

EEVblog

Just upped my pledge to cover tax AND fees.

Steve McKenna

Doesn't bother me. Ebay already collects tax, I knew eventually the tax dam would burst, and I can't imagine the tax will be that much. Keep on keeping on....

From what I've pieced together, the full pledged amount still goes to the Creator. The monthly Patreon bill to the Patron will be increased to include the tax. NO CREATOR REVENUE SHOULD BE AFFECTED. IANAL, etc......

BobC

Happy to help with a little more every month and joining the Pi club. Hang in there Fran you're ok! Cheers and Peace from southeastern arizona usa!

Sorry Fran, I REFUSE to be cowed by these greedy, grubby, short sighted, pusillanimous wipers of other people's bottoms (sorry MPFC). 50 cents, another buck still worth it, still in it!

Paul Pruss

Just INCREASED my monthly donation to include Texas sales tax. $21.65. love ya!

The Church of FranLab!!!!

Gilbert Pfaff

When I see what they are charging I will increase my pledge so that you get the same amount - taxes are part of civilized life and this would be one of the few things that taxes are worth paying for... Hang In There - You're Worth Every Bit!

Jon M Dhuse

I guess FranLab needs to become a church run by Pasture Fran. John Oliver sorta put together a how to. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7y1xJAVZxXg Though, sales tax is how local government pays for services.

I’m not giving up. The world is a better place because of content creators like you!

Sales tax? That is so goofy....Whew not Missouri.

Gilbert Pfaff

I will ride the train until it wrecks

Eric Dickinson

I'll be staying on as a patron, no matter what