POD 123: Dr. Rick Strassman on DMT and "My Altered States"

As I recall, it was the subject of an argument between Psymposia and Bia Labate and may no longer exist. Labate’s stance was that indigenous groups and their traditions shouldn’t be viewed through an ethnocentric lens of tourist safety.

Hamilton Morris

Scythians used Datura before raids as "vision quest assistance"

Sam Mokarian

Around 1:07:00 Hamilton mentions a database of safe practitioners in the Amazon. Does anyone know where this database is, or where any similar types of databases can be found?

Eddie Seabrook

Does anyone know if he’s spoken about Datura anywhere? - Thanks :)

James P

Feel that

Donny Stropurt

Even if you just put out some easy recordings talking about what you’re up to or go back to answering questions for just talking about random drug or ethnobotany or whatever. Think about it. Out of 12 months we just paid for 2 months of nothing. If this is the best you can do right now that’s ok with me too, I’d just like to hear it from you. Several times you e said you’ve got a lot in the pipeline for us and then nothing comes . I feel like a dick for even bringing it up but I really need to explain how I’m feeling so I don’t build up resentment.

Jameson kerr

I love you and respect you, but please put out more content brother. The last pod was 2 months ago. I don’t mind putting money in your pocket and I’ll never unsubscribe, but it feels a little sparse around here lately man . With all do respect . I know the sub is relatively cheap but it’s still money and a luxury , and it just feels like we’re getting the short end of the stick a bit. Much love bro, just an honest request and my honest feelings.

Jameson kerr

This was so enjoyable, I feel like me, You, and Rick, could all get elevated, and together, just through the act of doing that, we would, without question, resonate. Together, a Dominant Subtlety, and in that way, an Editorial Internvention to the script ✌️❤️🙏

Jeff

Just thought I would say that I really like your dad’s new film (well I presume it’s new - I’m not in the USA so it may not be) - Chaos - The Manson murders. Is this by any chance how you got the interview with the guy involved in the first murder? Or was that just coincidence. Anyway - looking forward to more podcasts!

rabidreject

Why?

nova-x13

Wellwe'rewaiting.gif

Leahygaga

Everytime you ask, he delays it a week.

B-Boy Bungus

Will there be a new podcast for the month of February?

Joseph

When’s that Peerowid launching?

Pvt. Idaho

Love these podcasts Hamilton. Are you going to continue uploading? I know you were talking about taking a break

Jake Hill

This is such an important part of the psychedelic process spot on

Leahygaga

He stopped being able to breakthrough. No matter how much he smoked. He is a cool guy though but he did become a bit scary at a time

Ben D

Damn...that's a lotta dmt per day...they must've been really hungry for some visions.

Creepy Crawley

Your cat is probably finding your stash and having a real spirit bending time 😉

Creepy Crawley

Nah, I like it. The lack of such production values makes it feel less produced and corporate ✌🏻

5hydroxytryptameme

Give everyone in the theoretical “community” a computer and train a GPT based off a standardized questionnaire, the GPT could average out all the people’s stances, answering questions based off the collective opinions of the community. Congrats you have created computer god.

ogon bio

Please upload soon, I’m ill and the only remedy is a podcast that that kicks off with a strong “Okay,”.

ogon bio

Robin Goedefroot

Lol every time I get to the end I think my internet has cut out or something because of how abruptly they end. Just a little outro music would be chefs kiss.

Crypto Tonight

Great Conversation as always Hamilton. The Rick/Joe exchange I found fascinating and touched on something I have been thinking on. Having a leader is an efficient communication strategy for a group. If you live with 150 or so folks in a community how do you function as a whole? 1- it is too tedious and time intensive to get everyones opinion on every subject all the time. 2- If you disregard everyone’s opinions/feelings by doing whatever you want you’d alienate yourself and lose the collective power and resources shared among the group. Now if there is a consensus on leadership you just need to check in with one person, the leader, on a daily basis and then on a longer timeframe the group can decide if following a particular leader is good for the group or not. You don’t even have to physically talk to the leader because our internal dialogue is set up so the way we think through an idea in our heads is in the form of conversation with one leader/celebrity/God/historical figure which is a proxy for talking through ideas with the whole group all at once. Rick is right about the Shulgin’s leadership being crucial to that groups success just like Rogan leadership is crucial to a lot of LA/Austin Comedians. But interestingly one of Rogans most frequent recommendations is for people to not read the comment section because it’s so distracting. so it doesn’t compute that Joe thinks having the global comment section main lined to your consciousness would be good or effective communication. Our built in proxy models are better because there’s way less noise. I think the modern psychedelic movement needs a trusted leader. I’m an old millennial and when I talk to peers outside the scene the only person they know of and respect who I also think is credible is (You) Hamilton. I think that is why so many powerful people are going after You and it’s clear from Your work and actions that Your talking things through with the Shulgins in your head. This makes you the best modern proxy for the values and actions of the psychedelic community that I want to be apart of. You also possesses the single best and most universal leadership quality- You don’t want to be the leader. Maybe the group has already decided for you that you are our proxy/leader/celebrity of choice and it doesn’t necessarily require your consent. So I’m really sorry for all hate you get but greatly appreciated your leadership. You’re the best! The community you represent is the best too!

Enchanted FX

Same is true of many, if not most, mental health issues.

Jānis Stūrītis

Great discussion, thank you!

Honey-el

I didn’t listen to the whole interview still on intro*

Ben D

DMT absolutely builds tolerance… I’ve seen it with my own eyes.. watched a man smoke grams of dmt a day. I watched how his tolerance grew. Unless you mean something different by tolerance..

Ben D

If you think about it it's entirely possible that if Ross hadn't created Silk Road when he did Bitcoin might have never taken off like it did and might only be a shadow of what it is at present or even still exist. Nobody really knew much or anything about Bitcoin until people started hearing about Silk Road and as of today 1 coin is worth over $105K!

nova-x13

Agreed! Now that's and interview that I'd love to hear and hopefully see now that Hamilton has started filming his interviews. After all the stories, a kind of crappy and inaccurate movie and of course all the hype and misinformation surrounding this case to actually get to hear and see straight from the legend himself. Also am incorrect or is that like the one positive thing trump has done since taking office. Surprised the hell out of me that's for sure!

nova-x13

And is difference, dissent not what pushes humanity forward?

Tyler Stark

A telepathically connected society would no doubt introduce natural selection in a way more homogenizing than farming. Organized thought patterns would win out entirely on the basis that they can organize together. It’d be a hive mind.

Tyler Stark

That first thought could be the most salient, powerful, and truthful thought to come but it very well may not be.

Tyler Stark

I have a bent toward what is real and that is not real to me. The editorial is an essential part of consciousness and therefore lived experience. The first thing I think of is often not going to fit into my perceived world. It has to be reconciled.

Tyler Stark

As someone who also has a chaotic way of thinking and organizing thought, the neuralink society proposal is absolutely horrifying. I think it would be entirely homogenizing.

Tyler Stark

Great interview hamilton! And Keep us posted on the peer reviewed erowid concept! Side note, not sure you've ever communicated with Ross Ulbricht or ever publicly discussed the DNMs but I'd love to hear your views on the Silk Road and Ross' freedom... potential for an interview at some point? Cheers

Aidan

Animal research bothers me in so many ways....I feel like it's often very cruel and immoral even when scientists use the "most humane" possible ways of conducting the research. Giving mice and animals tumors to test out drugs...and giving lethal doses of drugs to animals. Just very barbaric imo. I know some justify it all by blanket statements of it being for the "benefit of humanity". Well maybe humanity would be better off left to evolution if torturing animals is the only way we can find to learn knowledge of medicines to save ourselves.

Creepy Crawley

I find the idea of the peer reviewed self drug reports with validified drug samples interesting... I guess I could see some benefit in it, like the reports could be cited in scientific research...but then again there's still so many unknown factors about the anonymous reporter and their experience/trip report...and I feel like its just as uncitable as Reddit/Erowid/Bluelight. One doesn't know if they're being honest about other drugs/medications/supplements they are on, if their measurements in dosage were accurate, and the accuracy of the set and setting. I like the spirit of the idea though. I also find it crazy that the DEA used and uses reddit/other online reports in their analysis on drugs...when the Internet is just a whole ground of unknown. Assumedly they are already infiltrating these sites and trying to act as a user posting trip reports to learn more themself about the communities of users and to possibly ensnare people and find users & chemists & the markets people are using. Pretty insane stuff to think about, makes me think of the stories of undercovers infiltrating high schools pretending to be a regular high school student to ens are unsuspecting students into buying drugs.

Creepy Crawley

Great episode, been really interested in the idea of an active placebo since reading this article: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35359159/ Would love to hear a whole podcast on this topic

Ethan Jamieson

Amazing interview. Certainly the best one I've heard with Strassman

Matthew Kinnin

Hamilton can you touch on SR-17018? The folks on r/Opioid_RCs are talking about it alot. It seems very special.

Sean Qualischefski

Joe Rogan spouting on truth is the funniest thing he’s ever said. And to his notion of “the new species” I find this quote still relevant. “There's no such thing as life without bloodshed. I think the notion that the species can be improved in some way, that everyone could live in harmony, is a really dangerous idea. Those who are afflicted with this notion are the first ones to give up their souls, their freedom. Your desire that it be that way will enslave you and make your life vacuous.” Cormac McCarthy

John John

What a lovely treat that was!

Meek

Honestly, how sick it is that we are studying DMT in cats but keep locking people up for doing it because they want to. This sickens me so much.

Martin Paridon

+1 for the tech volunteering. General 'DevOps engineer' here happy to help.

Todd Murphy

Interesting to hear that the two of you are still somewhat undecided about the existence of DMT tolerance, given your respective experiences on the matter. I've encountered a dogmatic view that there is absolutely no DMT tolerance. Since you've mentioned that you have smoked DMT a lot in the past, have you observed apparent tolerance? I certainly have but I agree it takes a while to develop.

Phil Oad

Ditto. I would be interested in assisting with the infrastructure side of things (containerization and CI/CD) if help is needed.

Juniper

I could listen to Dr Strassman all day every day

Jenni

You both sound very fun to spend time with

Samantha Firoze Sethna

Yessir I could not agree more. I always thought how much of a part the illegal enterprises have helped out in the role of drug reform and education about the hypocrisy were in. Another pro to add to the list for being an activist!!!! Much love my open minded "elitist snobs" 🤪

mason Jiles

I am very interested in this peer-reviewed underground journal. Would it include clandestine chemistry work, too? Funny enough, just this week I was considering conducting a series of experiments to optimize a particular route and writing up these findings with the same rigor as I would in my normal academic chemistry work. I was thinking of publishing these results just online under a pseudonym if I did so. If this is more of a Kykeon-related thing where users can submit their RC samples for analytical testing and attach subjective experiences, I would be happy to do that as well with my samples.

Thor Correia

I tried to be a participant in his study. But he was only taking terminally ill people. I d still do it now

Jenni

Great question! I wanna know as well!!! This is a must!

M

We have major hurdles to overcome. But I feel really good about the future.

M

I am so fricken excited for this.

DreamStone

Unrelated but, will you attempt to interview Ross Ulbricht?

Helmer

❤️ This one is really good.

Samantha Firoze Sethna

It's interesting how if you say you have HPPD the first response is often "oh you poor soul I'm so sorry for you" instead of the productive advice you gave.

val

If you need any assistance with setting up a web server for your project I can volunteer my time as a Linux sysadmin. I'm optimistic about the future of these medicines and ideally an increased level of freedom to heal oneself through descheduling and state initiatives. Whether people like it or not we will likely need to work with lobbying, pharma investments, and special interest groups to see rapid and substantial changes. A wild card despite his faults is RFK Jr who is a vocal proponent of psychedelic and experimental medicines so not all hope is lost federally. Thank you for continuing to be great and having this interview!

val

Preach. I wondered once if I had HPPD and decided I didn't actually care and then everything normalized again anyway.

Cody

I've had the "super nocebo" thing on my mind for a while now - I get irritated at the concept of HPPD as a diagnosis because of this. I used to spend a lot of time in r/rationalpsychonaut just doing outreach and talking people down off the "OMG I RUINED MY BRAIN" because they took some psychedelics and now notice the somatic perceptual stuff that they used to automatically filter out. HPPD is only a diagnosis if it makes you anxious, and if what you're experiencing is classed by someone you think has authority as a "disorder" then that's going to make you anxious, so it's a self-fulfilling prophecy. I would ask "Dude, can you function? Can you drive a car or get on a bus and buy groceries? Are you able to do your job? Unless you are truly crippled by interfering actual hallucinations, it's a perception shift that will normalize if you let it. Take some deep breaths and know you're OK and you're gonna be OK."

Alice Ola

Yeah I think I saw this new book on audible the other day. Have been meaning to re-read (or listen to the spirit molecule as well) I think it’s really important that people like this start speaking up about their own drug use. I do think, although slow, Dr Carl Harts book (drug use for grownups) probably did help people feel safer about admitting this stuff. It equals less stigmatisation for those of us that aren’t in the scientific community. Love the podcasts as always Hamilton!

rabidreject

Okayyyy!

Ari Givony

Thank you Hamilton! Your posts are my favorite. You have taught me to be more receptive to other’s ideas and not be judgmental. I appreciate you.

Monica Mendez

Oh man I'm so excited to listen to this later. I'm halfway through his book and I really like it. He seems to be such a nice and interesting person. It's amazing that he kept a journal all this time. A lot of his stories remind me of my own youth but a lot of details are lost in the fog of time for me. Highly recommend reading his book

Simon

Good to hear though. It'll be interesting to see

Armchair Idiot

Not yet published, which is why I said it was responsible for you to withhold judgment until adequate evidence is presented.

Hamilton Morris

This felt like Dr Strassman at his most authentic and cogent. I really enjoyed hearing his storytelling and his wise communication with Hamilton. Always been a fan of him but this is probably the first time I listened to him where I could truly hear the interpersonal skills of him as a clinician too. Very attentive communicator.

Douglas Skene

Awesome! Is this published? Where/when can I read more about it? I don't keep up on journalism outside of this podcast, though I probably should

Armchair Idiot

I have corroborated the information from multiple sources, but your skepticism is perfectly reasonable. It has been directly confirmed to multiple journalists at this point (the amount of money is even known) but it's responsible for you to withhold judgment until adequate evidence is presented.

Hamilton Morris

4th 5th day there is like no affect with lsd

Tia Chi

This one was an absolute delight. Thank you so much.

gossamer

I think you should either stop talking about who's paying who or give actual evidence if you're going to continue discussing it. I'm not saying you're wrong, but without proof, it comes off as being a little unhinged which I think makes the whole situation a lot worse. It makes you seem no better than Nese when she says she has proof that MAPS is a therapy cult without actually showing what her proof is.

Armchair Idiot

Please let me know if you would like UX work for the peer-reviewed erowid idea! User testing, designs, accessibility, etc. I like the idea and Dr. Strassman's sentiment of developing the underground to be more certifiable.

mia

YES! Decided against music while washing dishes as soon as this notification popped up

Daniel Amick

We love you Hamilton, thank you

justin mozal

The book that introduced me to this all almost 10 years ago. Love Rick ..Truly a hero of the..Strassen.. Bad german puns aside, It was once again truly touching what you said about the shulgins Pihkal is a gift that keeps on giving in every aspect ,one needs restraint to not seem too fanatical about it.

Grichy

When there’s this many pdf’s attached, you know it’s going to be a good episode!

Chillpad

First!

M